SCHV Cartridges for Deer Hunting

[targshooter]

For two years Minnesotans have been allowed to hunt deer with the M1 Carbine. This year I actually saw one fellow with an M1. My next question is why not the centerfire 22s? I would not use such, but certainly with the 55 grain and heavier bullets the .223 and its larger cased small caliber high velocity (SCHV) brethren would make as good, in fact, probably better hunting cartridges than the US .30 carbine cartridge. In addition, they are more effective than the legal .25-20. Additionally, the AR15/.223 combination will likely be more capable than the average hunter with a pistol. Note, I said average pistoleer. There are those that carry and use very capably some technological hand cannons that are very effective game getters. However, on the average, I would bet a hunter with an AR15 would lose less deer than the average pistoleer. We won't even talk bowhunting (I find dead deer on an average of every other year with an arrow sticking out of it). When I moved from upstate NY, they had gone to allowing any centerfire rifle cartridge for deer in the northern woods. I did see some people using AR15 rifles with blocked magazines. The DEC claimed this had no negative impact on the deer population. So, why not allow the .22 centerfires?

[kyelkhunter3006]

Talk about controversial subjects!!!  I have no problem with someone using a .22 centerfire for deer as long as they can shoot very well, and use the right ammo.  I think that the subject is so touchy because not everyone is an ethical hunter that will wait for the perfect broadside shot, and we all know that.  Seriously, if you are using a .270, 30-06, .308 etc, and a good bullet, you can take just about any shot from any angle and and put the bullet in the vitals if you point it right.  Can't do that with a .22 centerfire with the current crop of factory bullets and rifles available. 

Note that I said "current factory".  If you reload ammo with some of the custom heavy controlled expansion slugs available and rebarrel with a fast twist barrel to handle those slugs, you could do it with a .22 too.  Use a Richards 80 grain Hammer in a 1-7 twist 22-250 or Swift, you could shoot any deer you see out to 400yds and not worry about it.  But will the average hunter, someone who shoots a box or two a year, even know what I'm talking about?  No......and they are the reason that the factories and most states don't push or support the .22's for deer, because they know that some guy who doesn't know any better will grab a box of 40gr Balllistic tips and try to drop a 250lb buck with a rear end shot at 300 yds.  Or with the case of the AR/.223, some guy will buy a case of Wolf FMJ ammo (cause it's cheap) and try to go deer hunting with it.  And lose several deer.  Yes, there are several controlled expansion loads available in factory ammo now, but the average guy isn't going to pay $30 for a box of 20.

I live in Ky (did the name give that away?).  We can use ANY centerfire rifle caliber, from .17 Rem (the smallest I can think of) to 700 Nitro express (is there any bigger?).  You can use any size shotgun slug.  Any centerfire pistol round (I think, I can't get the regulations to load on the page).  Yeah, this means you could deer hunt with a .25 ACP pistol.....goofy right?  I wish that KY would set some caliber restrictions for deer hunting.  Every year, I meet at least one person who lost a deer with a .22 centerfire using varmint ammo, or with a 9mm pistol, a .38 Special, etc.  But I digress, I'm off on a tangent here.

I think that Minn. lets you use the M1 because anyone who knows that the M1 is, and what it shoots, knows that they can't pop off shots at 300 yds and hope to kill something.  You can kill deer with a regular 9mm pistol round at close range, and the .30 carbine is hotter than most 9mm ammo.  They know that they have to be close.  And if someone who doesn't know better gets one to use, they aren't going hit a deer 300 yds anyway.  Would I use it?  No......and I probably wouldn't use a .22 centerfire either. 

[wi-deerhunter]

are you talking about hunt deer with .22 caliber in Minnesota? I know Minnesota has big heavy body deer weight about 200 pounds.. I hunt deer in northern wisconsin, i took 3 shots on 8 pointer with .30-06 and dead at 100 yards from where i shot. .22'd probably best work for southern whitetail..