Author Topic: So, You Think You're a Republican (or Real Conservatism!) (Read 1651 times)

TM7 · « **on:** February 17, 2007, 05:22:07 AM »

Most interesting interview with Sen Chuck Hagel [R] in CQ magazine. A very worthwhile read. Perhaps this clarifies what real conservatism is after 7 years of neoconism.
"In your heart you know its Hagel" ...kinda has a ring to it! but we shall see. What's his position on firearms?
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http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_5326

...TM7

dukkillr · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2007, 07:21:12 AM »

great quote from that piece:

Quote

You don’t hear very many politicians say that both sides of an issue are reasonable these days.
We are living through one of the most transformative periods in history. If we are going to make it, we need a far greater appreciation and respect for others, or we’re going to blow up mankind. Look at what zealotry can do. Religious zealotry has been responsible for killing more people than any other thing. Look at the Middle East today. It’s all about religion. We need to move past those divisions and learn to be tolerant and respectful. If we go out there full of intolerance and hatred, we’ll never make it.

grde · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2007, 04:38:32 PM »

I consider myself a Liberal Libertarian, but I would stand in line to vote for Hagel. I don't agree with him on every issue, but I respect him. A Hagel/Webb ticket could do wonders for this country. They are both stand up guys, which is more than I can say for the past two occupants of the White House.

nomosendero · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2007, 07:47:02 PM »

Like the other Libs, he has no solutions, just gripping. No doubt things could have been done differently in Irac, but he has no more of a plan than Ted Ken. or the Hollywood nutjobs. He is a fine Lib, which means he is worthless. But if some like him, fine. It is nothing to argue about, as he can't win the Pres. anyway.

williamlayton · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2007, 02:27:31 AM »

Win the presidency?
Lie is a better word.
trust a party?
Haruumph--whoever does that is ______to the core.
Hagel is honest and as far as having a plan--he does--get the H--- out of Dodge, which is not where we should have been in the first place. the person reading the road map to the location we should have been going was high on the sauce or smoke-or snort (if that does not offend the supporters of Jr).
Folks, options also include not doing anything. Doing something should include back-up plans or , plan "B", which was never in place or considered.
This whole mess was ill-concieved, based on lies and for the sole purpose of EGO & MONEY--probably directed by Sr.
If you think I am liberal then you probably bought the WMD based on the drug of your choice being in effect/affect at the time---certainly not out of any evidence. That was a LIE.
Soap box is clear.
Blessings

grde · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2007, 02:41:04 AM »

Well Goldwater did say that he thought that he would ultimately be considered a liberal. He based this on the fact that he thought religion had no place in government, and that government had no place in people's bedrooms.

grde · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2007, 04:18:25 AM »

TM7

Good point on the Hegelian dialectics. Personally, I see one of Hegel's critics--Santayana--as being extremely relevant to the current debate. He criticized Hegel's willingness to apologize for those who hold power; and thus equate dominance or supremacy with righteousnous.

I find it disturbing that many people feel that criticizing Bush because he is the president, or because he is a Christian, is somehow unpatriotic.

Last week I heard an prime example of this. I was listening to the evening news on my way home and the reporter was interviewing people about what they thought of the troop increase. One lady replied that she had no idea what he was talking about, but if president Bush thought it was a good idea then she was for it. He then asked her what she based this on, and she replied: "he is a Christian and the president, he must be right." This mentality scares the (well you know) out of me.

nomosendero · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2007, 07:42:19 AM »

Quote from: williamlayton on February 18, 2007, 02:27:31 AM

Win the presidency?
Lie is a better word.
trust a party?
Haruumph--whoever does that is ______to the core.
Hagel is honest and as far as having a plan--he does--get the H--- out of Dodge, which is not where we should have been in the first place. the person reading the road map to the location we should have been going was high on the sauce or smoke-or snort (if that does not offend the supporters of Jr).
Folks, options also include not doing anything. Doing something should include back-up plans or , plan "B", which was never in place or considered.
This whole mess was ill-concieved, based on lies and for the sole purpose of EGO & MONEY--probably directed by Sr.
If you think I am liberal then you probably bought the WMD based on the drug of your choice being in effect/affect at the time---certainly not out of any evidence. That was a LIE.
Soap box is clear.
Blessings

If his plan is to "get out of Dodge", then he should not have voted for going to start with. If he is honest, then he should have made proposals on how to better win this quickly, did he? If he voted for the war & proposed no statagies along the way & now just wants to leave, then he had no plan at alll. Any info on this?

I agree with the plan "B" idea, unless it is merely to leave.

I have heard nothing conservative at all from this man, but I am willing to listen more. Let's see how he stands on other core issues.

nomosendero · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2007, 11:06:12 AM »

So, his position concerning Irac is the exact same as Hillary's!!!!

Casull · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2007, 07:10:46 PM »

Don't about you guys, but I always get nervous when a liberal republican senator and TM7 start telling me what "real" conservatism is.

williamlayton · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2007, 11:32:26 PM »

I think the idea of "labeling" conservative as good and right and "liberal" as bad and wrong to be shortsighted and missing the point.
We have had discussion on this forum showing that use of such words adds confusion rather than defines.
Each idea is a subject of its own rather than a defined liberal or conservative idea.
Some liberals idea's can be consevative--whatever consevative is too the subject.
This idea about Iraq was neither liberal or conservative---IT was wrong and illconcieved no matter the party affiation of the party who concieved--I strongly suggest that concieved, in this case, be taken with a grain of salt as concieved implys thinking--it.
Blessings

Echo4Lima · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2007, 10:19:48 AM »

What is it that makes some people get on the band wagon for a politician that "bucks" his party? Prime example is the same kind of support MaCain had. Yeah, real "Stand up guys". A Hagel/Webb ticket elected would be a DISASTER for this country. Hagel is not a conservative, Webb is an opportunist. Neither has the future interests of this country in mind.

The thing that infuriates me is how they, and others, try to hide behind thier service YEARS ago to avoid criticism. Just because one may have done the right thing 25, 30, or more, years ago does not mean they are doing the right thing NOW!!!

BTW Goldwater was not an "arch conservative"! Look at his policies, not what some try to portray him as for thier own purposes. Just because he wanted to win in 'Nam didnt make him a Conservative.

Who's been "manipulated and polarized"? Not the left of course, THEY are TOOOO smart for that.

The left is more interested in defeating the "War Party" then the enemy. They WILL accept defeat in Iraq for a victory over the "War Party". The problem with that logic, or lack there of, is that a win over the "War Party" is a defeat for America. It will be seen as just that by America's ENEMY'S! It is that simple!!

If some of you were around during WWII, I wonder how that would have come out. After all, Hitler didnt have anything to do with Pearl Harbor and, he was only gassing NeoCons!(*)

Words have meanings...*(The term "NeoCon" is commonly recoginized as an anti Semitic slur to describe the "Jewish Cabal" in the U.S. Government)

williamlayton · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2007, 02:06:38 PM »

WAR PARTY???
The military industrial complex benifits.
Look a little closer at the history of WWII--I see facts a little differently.
Blessings

nomosendero · « **Reply #13 on:** February 22, 2007, 01:35:49 AM »

An article that says that a Congressman is Conservative & a few people far to the left of myself that say someone is Conservative does not make it so. Judge them by their fruits is the only thing that makes sense to me. Soooo, what bills has this man introduced
that are actually Conservative? What Conservative bills has he supported. He has been there long enough to have a track record, so
what is it? This is all that matters in this discussion, facts vs opinions.

nomosendero · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2007, 03:22:45 AM »

TM7, thanks for the link, very helpful. Rushing to War is not necessarily Coservative, but cut & run isn't either. A better plan would have been great for all, but it did not occur. Hagel is better in pro-life, gun control & other issues than I suspected. Like most, his Illegal Alien stance appears dismal, indeed & I would not vote for him for that reason, I wish I had known Pres. Bush's position early on.

Echo4Lima · « **Reply #15 on:** February 27, 2007, 07:15:38 AM »

William, My my point about WWII and Hitler/Japan was that Hitler didnt have any operational planning with Japan to attack Pearl. They were allies. I used the "War Party" as was used to describe Republicans by others, not my label.

Echo4Lima · « **Reply #16 on:** March 01, 2007, 01:40:11 PM »

TM ask any Jew about the ' NeoCon" thing at see what they say about it.

As for a "source" read a history book.

Think I should complain about a "personal" attack? The "much like yourself" could be taken as that.....

Echo4Lima · « **Reply #17 on:** March 06, 2007, 11:29:32 AM »

Jesus being a Jew has nothing to do with the words, and thier meanings, that one uses.

"Two of my best friends are Jews"? Is that like "two of my best friends are black?" Whats that??

Comments yes, personal no. I have carefully edited all my posts to avoid complaint. Even this one. I, have never complained about anything written here.

Hitler/Japan, 911/Saddam. Hitler didnt do Pearl, Saddam didnt do 911. Get it? Constant echo, "Saddam didnt have anything to do with 911 so why.......blah, blah, blah".

I'm not "in" the "vast right wing conspiracy". (insert Twilight Zone theme here) I am it.

With the "Right Wing Press" 4th estate, who needs a 5th column?

Echo4Lima · « **Reply #18 on:** March 06, 2007, 11:54:04 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on March 06, 2007, 11:40:15 AM

.
Seriously,,,what are you trying to say...the point is _______ ?

...TM7

Made!

ironglow · « **Reply #19 on:** March 06, 2007, 03:04:02 PM »

Echo4, Nomo and others..thanks for your clear statements..
After trudging my way through all seven pages..I have still not found one tiny idea of how to win the war on terrorism from Mr Hagel
Yes, we hear bushels of griping, tons of complaining and cartloads of sniping at others..but not one ounce of any new ideas on how to subdue these forces that want to destroy us.

So Hagel voted for the war and now votes against it !...hmmm ...nothing new there..sound much like some words uttered by a certain Swift-boat "veteran"...LOL

If he has no new, constructive ideas..he's not worth wasting time listening to..Bellyaching, we can hear in many places..

It is somewhat disingenuous for him to seemingly claiim some special insight ..because he's a veteran..there are millions of we veterans..
For every veteran that would "choose to lose", I believe that there could easily be 20 or 30 that would "choose to win"..

I know many active duty Iraqi veteran Marines(serving with my Grandson) and several local Army vets of Iraq some with Purple Hearts..and thank God, not one of them seems to have the fawning, whiny attitude of a Hagel or Murtha.

Hagel may call himself a "conservative"..but his voting (and mouthing) record is apparently far from it !

Abraham Lincoln explained this situation quite simply:

One day, Honest Abe asked a journalist, " If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs does the dog have ?"

The hesitant journalist replied " Five ? "..

Linclon answered; " The dog still has four legs...just because you call his tail a leg..doesn't mean it IS a leg !".

The latest trick by liberals...who dislike trhe military..is to find someone of their stripe that did wear a uniform at some point, and try to make him the "end all, be all" authority on things military...even if he does espouse a "cut and run" mentality.

I don't know agreat deal about hagel's (or Murtha's) military record and don't care..it is the courage they show now that counts !

Need I remind you of one of our most courageous general Officers..who was much decorated and twice seriously wounded while leading troops into direct combat.

It was actually while recuperating from his second wound that Gen Benedict Arnold decided to work against his own country..without any concern for his fellow soldiers...

BTW: I might never have seen that article on my own...looking over the magazine that article was published in, caused me to believe that it was a sisified, wussy rag anyway...LOL

Say men;...Do we have any suggestions as to what the name of that magazine.. CQ...might stand for ?

Casull · « **Reply #20 on:** March 06, 2007, 08:46:54 PM »

Quote

We've had this discussion before and I'm not telling you anything sofar. The aritcle linked is suggesting that Hagel is likened to arch conservative Barry Goldwater.

TM7, I bet that Goldwater would not have voted to give illegal alliens social security benefits, as Hagel has.