Author Topic: THE 2007 International Open (Read 3066 times)

Cat Whisperer · « **on:** February 18, 2007, 11:21:39 AM »

THE 2007 International Open is coming soon.

Stay tuned.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #1 on:** February 19, 2007, 12:24:43 AM »

NEW CONTEST

The 2007 International Open Graybeard-Mortar-and-Cannon-Forum Stainless-Steel Cannon/Mortar Design-it, build-it and shoot-it Contest.

There will be three major categories for competition:

1. Sponsor built
2. Self built
3. Design by one but built by another.

Preliminary rules:

1. Entry must be a shooting cannon or mortar.
2. Rules of design and loading published by the N-SSA to be used (for safety).
3. Preliminary design posted in order to receive materials.
4. Materials, at least the big chunks of stainless steel will be provided for the cost of postage.
5. Inventory of materials on hand includes, but is not limited to:
    7/8 x 4” and 7/8 x 6”
   1-1/4” x 10”
   .314 x 1-3/4”
   some odd rounds of about 3, 4 and 5” – ranging from 1 to 3” thick.
   Material is mystery stainless (likely to be 303, is not 304).
6. Requests for materials should be submitted by PM to C.W. for address; materials will be sent as available and consistent with posted design when payment for postage is received.
7. Design and discussion will meet Board and Forum rules.
8. Sub-categories shall be self-chosen and published with the design.
9. All prizes listed will be awarded (there are none listed).
10. All NFA rules apply.
11. Void where prohibited by law.
12. Contest will close sometime late this summer.

Don Krag · « **Reply #2 on:** February 19, 2007, 04:46:42 AM »

We can use our own stainless right? I can get pretty good hunks here at the scrapyard, or a few other places. Are there minimum/maximum bore/size limits?

Is this going to be a big target shooting meet....or just post pics/videos?

Sounds like fun...count me in!

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #3 on:** February 19, 2007, 05:41:11 AM »

Quote from: Don Krag on February 19, 2007, 04:46:42 AM

We can use our own stainless right? I can get pretty good hunks here at the scrapyard, or a few other places. Are there minimum/maximum bore/size limits?

Is this going to be a big target shooting meet....or just post pics/videos?

Sounds like fun...count me in!

The idea of having the stainless provided (at least one piece) puts some minor limitations (narrowing the scope a bit) on design. So, let's say that at least ONE piece of the finished product WILL be one that was provided (or of the same size as one of the listed pieces).

We CAN have a meet to shoot these. But the travel time and distances might be intimidating for most folks.

Don Krag · « **Reply #4 on:** February 19, 2007, 07:49:01 AM »

I was thinking of making a scale model of the larger one I plan on starting late this summer. I can get 2" rounds of 430F (free machining stainless with nice mechanical properties) in ~24" lengths.

Scaling down to about 1/3 scale and the following drawing is the final barrel. I'll probably have to knock it down a bit more since the lathe I'd be using can only get ~16" using a live center, though!

I have 7/8" and 5/8" 316 SS I could use as trunions.

GGaskill · « **Reply #5 on:** February 19, 2007, 08:40:19 AM »

What's the thickness of the 5" dia pieces?

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #6 on:** February 19, 2007, 12:17:11 PM »

Quote from: GGaskill on February 19, 2007, 08:40:19 AM

What's the thickness of the 5" dia pieces?

George - I'll have to look (later tonight). Some are under an inch and some are 1"ish and maybe a piece or two around 2 or 3".

Best guess on the rest of the stainless is that the

7/8" is 316 (which is magnetic) or 416 (which is not magnetic) and the

1-1/4" diameter is prehardened 15-4 or 17-4.

There might be some 1-1/4 that is 303.

The 5" is 303.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #7 on:** February 19, 2007, 12:26:32 PM »

Quote from: Don Krag on February 19, 2007, 07:49:01 AM

I was thinking of making a scale model of the larger one I plan on starting late this summer. I can get 2" rounds of 430F (free machining stainless with nice mechanical properties) in ~24" lengths.
...

Don - LOOKS GOOD. We're off to the races! Is the barrel going to be round tapered or do I detect another shape?

I think most folks will build something from fire-cracker caliber up to maybe .50 cal using the almost free stainless.

Your plan of making a scaled one first will let you work out a few bugs that you might otherwise not foresee.

GO FOR IT!

GGaskill · « **Reply #8 on:** February 19, 2007, 12:45:38 PM »

Isn't 416 the magnetic one because it is hardenable? And 316 is not magnetic?

Don Krag · « **Reply #9 on:** February 19, 2007, 04:09:13 PM »

The rear half is hexagonal with a very slow taper, then the forward half is rounded with a slightly faster taper. A scale model will let me work out the best dimensions and the best order to cut things! If something doesn't fit well, it's much easier to fix on a 16-17" barrel and carraige, than a 50" one!

It'll make a nice mantlepiece.....and starling shooter!

I did a lot of machining of 316 when I worked for a NASA contractor. 316 is austinetic stainless and not responsive to heat treat. Kind of gummy on tooling and tends to break bits if they aren't sharp and properly lubed/cooled. Takes a nice polish, though, and pretty much won't rust. 304 we hated. It would tear up tooling, and surface-rust fairly easily.

I use 303 and 416 for knife handle gaurds and pommels. 416 has a prettier color than316. 316 seems to be a bluish tint like 440C, 416 looks more silver and makes great knife hardware. Machines pretty easy also. 303 is pretty easy to work as well.

14-4 PH, PRE-HARD.......never worked it, but it sounds hard.

I found a deal on the 430F. I had never heard of it, but after looking it up for the specs and talking with some guys, it sounds great for our purposes. $15 for a 2" x 24" rod...can't beat that!

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #10 on:** February 19, 2007, 04:45:21 PM »

Today's inventory of 5" diameter includes 4 pieces about 3/8, 1-1/2, 1-3/8, and 2-5/8 thick (approx).

Also have a bunch of 3.8" diameter a little less than 7/8" thick and a few 2.8" thick.

Yes, the prehardened would be no fun at all to cut, but it is very strong.

I must admit I don't know right off WHY one is magnetic and the other not. Worth some more research.

Don - you got a deal on the 2x24" ! (What I have to offer are scraps, but the price is also right.)

GGaskill · « **Reply #11 on:** February 19, 2007, 07:24:36 PM »

I don't suppose I can enter this one:

It was originally 1" bore but I bored it out for golf balls during the golf ball mortar craze. Mount is walnut.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #12 on:** February 20, 2007, 02:00:23 AM »

Not that one, but you could build another.

Don Krag · « **Reply #13 on:** February 20, 2007, 04:45:27 AM »

I've been working with United Specialty Alloys on their ebay-store. They have 4140, 1045 and 1018 rounds in ~1" - 6" regularly, usually in 12" and 24" lengths. What they have been listing on ebay as drops are perfect for me! They have been absolutely great to deal with, even digging through drop piles to find what I request. UPS is bound and determined to lose everything, though. Everything I've got has had an end ripped open with the packaging barely hanging on!

Magnetism.......my brain is a bit fuzzy on this since it's been quite a while, but here's what I remember....
Magnetism is caused be unpaired electrons in the outermost orbit of metal atoms which can become oriented/aligned in a magnetic field. Depending what it is alloyed with and what the crystalline form is (anything affecting structure), it may or may not be magnetic. Ferritic alloys are magnetic and can be hardened, austinetic can't. When you heat a ferritic steel to it's critical temp for heat treating, you are austinizing it. One way to check if you are above the critical temp, is to hold a magnet near your blade and see if it sticks. When it is fully austenized, it loses magnetism. When you quench a ferritic steel, it becomes matensitic, but still magnetic. Generally, high amounts of nickle cause a steel alloy to become austinetic, but there's a whole lot more to it than that.

Now, if you ask me some questions about nuclear transport theory or actinide/transuranic series metals and their properties, I can give you more detailed info from my research gauranteed to put anybody to sleep.

GGaskill · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2007, 02:53:59 PM »

CW,
Is any of the material TIG weldable?

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2007, 03:41:20 PM »

I have wire welded some of it. It is, however, not 100% guarenteed to be anything other than a prety good guess at what it is.

Cannonmaker · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2007, 06:06:06 PM »

Here in Southern Idaho most of the farm ground is irrageted from deep wells. The head shaft on the pumps are a 416 Stainless Steel. A couple of times a year I will buy 25 to 35 of these used shafts, their random lenghts, 4' to 12' and cut them to from 48" to 56" to make bale forks. This is a tought material and four forks will hold up real good lifting 1 or 2 of the one ton hay bales. The forks go in the buckets of Tractors or backhoe. If anyone lives in a area where there is deep well irragation, check with the local pump service company. The size's are 11/16--15/16, which I use and 2-3/16" This steel is magenetic and will slightly rust if left on the ground. I have welded it with Stainless Wire in my wirefeed.

Rick

Powder keg · « **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2007, 10:31:05 AM »

Cat, You are saying that the 5" stuff is so thick? are they shaped like hockey pucks? or longer than that? will we have to weld a stack of them together to make a shaft

Thanks, Wes

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2007, 12:28:54 PM »

Quote from: Powder keg on February 23, 2007, 10:31:05 AM

Cat, You are saying that the 5" stuff is so thick? are they shaped like hockey pucks? or longer than that? will we have to weld a stack of them together to make a shaft
Thanks, Wes

Hmmmm. That does pose a design problem.

But one of the 3ish" diameter pieces may end up being a base for a swivel gun.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2007, 05:05:45 PM »

Several entries and still LOTS of Stainless Steel left here!

If you're interested in making something but don't have drawings, put together a sketch. I'm sure there are folks here that will help with the design and the drawings.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #20 on:** February 25, 2007, 06:53:04 AM »

I will try to keep an current inventory here as the last-ish post of this thread - next time.

BUT for now, I found some 1-7/8 x 5 (4 pieces of unknown stainless heritage, all ends of 12 or 20' pieces) and ONE piece 1-7/8 x 4" with both good ends and MARKED as 416 stainless!

Wes, because you asked, you get first choice. The rest is available.

Inventory includes (roughly):

7/8 x about 4 and 6"
1-1/4 x about 8"
a bunch of .314 x 1-7/8
and a few 5"dia x about 2" long

and a few odd pieces too weird to describe and list.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #21 on:** February 27, 2007, 02:15:29 PM »

Inventory du jour:

STAINLESS:
1 pc 2.5" dia x 2.5 long - would make excellent scale model DICTATOR!
2 pcs. 1-7/8 x 4 to 5" long
MANY 1-1/4 x 7+"
MANY 7/8 x 5-1/2 to 6" long
2 pcs. 5/8 dia x 2.25 long
1 pc. 1-1/4 dia x 9-1/2 long drilled and tapped 1/4-20. WOULD MAKE EXCELLENT Handgonne!
1 pc. 3-3/4 dia x 2-3/4 long
1 pc 5" dia x 1-3/4 long
MANY .314 x 1-5/8" long

(does not count a couple of pieces set aside but not yet mailed for folks who've asked)

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #22 on:** February 28, 2007, 04:03:00 PM »

Inventory du jour:

STAINLESS:
1 pc 2.5" dia x 2.5 long - would make excellent scale model DICTATOR!
2 pcs. 1-7/8 x 4 to 5" long
MANY 1-1/4 x 7+"
MANY 7/8 x 5-1/2 to 6" long
2 pcs. 5/8 dia x 2.25 long
1 pc. 1-1/4 dia x 9-1/2 long drilled and tapped 1/4-20. WOULD MAKE EXCELLENT Handgonne!
1 pc. 3-3/4 dia x 2-3/4 long
1 pc 5" dia x 1-3/4 long
MANY .314 x 1-5/8" long

(does not count a couple of pieces set aside but not yet mailed for folks who've asked)

Add to the above a bunch of 5/8 dia. x two feet long and a fist full of shafts turned to various sizes (5/8 to 1/2 and smaller by 2-3-4" long).

GGaskill · « **Reply #23 on:** April 11, 2007, 09:04:26 AM »

Are we looking for just finished barrels here or complete guns with appropriate carriages?

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #24 on:** April 11, 2007, 11:52:46 AM »

Ahhh, YES!

I've got to get back to it. Been working on a breech seating tool.

Either or both are acceptable. Pictures including smoke are the ultimate goal.

Still plenty of steel available for folks wanting to start.

GGaskill · « **Reply #25 on:** April 27, 2007, 10:28:41 AM »

How's the steel inventory doing? Anything in the range of 1.75" dia x 7+" long (for a 10" Rodman) ?

Don Krag · « **Reply #26 on:** April 27, 2007, 11:56:40 AM »

I was bummed the other day. When I did the breech for my mortar, I brought my 2" x 20" 430 SS. Unfortunately, my buddy didn't have a steady rest for the lathe and the spindle bore was 1 7/8" so we couldn't do anything with it.

I have another guy I can hit up,though. I'll probably have to trade some custom knifework, though...but that's cool.

GGaskill · « **Reply #27 on:** April 27, 2007, 12:31:56 PM »

He didn't have a bandsaw you could saw off the piece you were going to use?

Don Krag · « **Reply #28 on:** April 27, 2007, 03:13:55 PM »

I'll be using all 20". I needed to put a .625 hole down it. Only gripping the end left too much chance for wobble. I might end up trying anyway using a 6 jaw chuck. It was TGP stock, so it ought to be fairly easy to get centered. I have some 3" x 24" I need bored out at 1.7" so I need to find another "really good friend" with a big lathe anyway. They have a huge one in the Physics dept at A&M. If I supplied the tooling, I coud probably work a favor in. It used to be soooooo much easier to "make friends" when I was one of the head safety officers for the A&M system who inspected the labs.

P.S. I have some other odds and ends of SS. I'll lolok and see if I have anything around 1.75" x 7+". Will closer to 2" work as well?

GGaskill · « **Reply #29 on:** April 27, 2007, 05:05:42 PM »

I'll look and see if I have anything around 1.75" x 7+". Will closer to 2" work as well?

Thanks. Sure, just more chips to make. The actual diameter is about 1.65".