Author Topic: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo  (Read 2199 times)

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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« on: February 20, 2007, 02:26:09 AM »
By now many of you have seen what Jim Zumbo wrote on his OutDoor Life blog (which apparently has now been removed).  For those that have not, here is the pertinent text:


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Assault Rifles For Hunters?
As I write this, I'm hunting coyotes in southeastern Wyoming with Eddie Stevenson, PR Manager for Remington Arms, Greg Dennison, who is senior research engineer for Remington, and several writers. We're testing Remington's brand new .17 cal Spitfire bullet on coyotes.

I must be living in a vacuum. The guides on our hunt tell me that the use of AR and AK rifles have a rapidly growing following among hunters, especially prairie dog hunters. I had no clue. Only once in my life have I ever seen anyone using one of these firearms.

I call them "assault" rifles, which may upset some people. Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity. I'll go so far as to call them "terrorist" rifles. They tell me that some companies are producing assault rifles that are "tackdrivers."

Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles. We've always been proud of our "sporting firearms."

This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, an assault rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them. I say game departments should ban them from the praries and woods.
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As a result of this article, Remington has withdrawn their sponsorship from Jim Zumbo.  You can read about it here: http://www.remington.com/library/press/2007/2007-1.asp

If you suppport Remington's action to dump Zumbo, please contact Remington and let them know.

It is difficult to send Remington a letter via their web page as I couldn't find a "Contact us" link, but I did find a place to ask questions and sent a letter there.  You can get there by following these clicks:

www.remington.com
Click 'Support'
Click 'Help Center'
Click the 'Ask a Question' tab


Below is a copy of the letter I submitted to Remington. 



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Dear Remington,

Thank you for your prompt action regarding Mr. Zumbo. 

While I do not own any of the rifles of which he wrote, many of the members of my shooting club do, and I support not only their right to do so but their right to hunt with them if they so choose.  One of my early elk hunting partners used a battle rifle from another era, an M1 Garand, and another used an even earlier battle rifle, an '03-A3 Springfield.  The rifle does not determine how it is used.  If that was the case, my Remington M700 BDL in .308 Win, with it's Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10x scope would be considered a "sniper rifle".

Mr. Zumbo may not care for their looks, but that does not make them any more inappropriate for hunting than  a Remington 7600 and a pocket full of magazines.  Nor does their typically black color make them "terrorist weapons" any more than the matte black finish and black synthetic stock and an unblocked magazine filled with 00 buckshot makes my Model 870 Express Super Magnum a "terrorist weapon". 

It was only a few years ago that Colorado outlawed modern inline muzzleloaders during 'primitive season'.  A large part of the reason they did so was the advice from the traditionalistic CSMA (Colorado State Muzzleloaders Association) which did not care for the "look and feel" of the inlines.  Colorado also justified their decision based on the argument made by the CSMA that the inlines provided the hunter with a significant advantage in power over side-hammer designs.  That year I had to set my Remington M700ML aside and purchase a Thompson side-hammer rifle.  Many people wrote the Colorado Division of Wildlife to protest this action.  I did so as well, noting that I could dress up my Thompson side-hammer rifle with fiber optic sights; a match grade stainless barrel; a professionally tuned trigger; a custom titanium hammer for faster lock times; a red, white and blue paint job with yellow lightning bolts emblazoned on the stock and that I could load it with the exact same loads I would have used in my Remington M700ML.   I also correctly pointed out that while such a rifle would happily fail to meet the 'look and feel' standards of the CSMA, it would be perfectly legal under the then-current regulations.  Such a rifle, of course, would not provide any significant advantage over an unaltered rifle, in spite of its "look and feel".  I was also happy to refute Colorado's argument about inlines providing more power than traditional side-hammer rifles by comparing the published maximum loads from Remington and other manufacturers of the time to load data published by an outdoor writer in the 1880s.  Thankfully, in response to the many hundreds of people who wrote in to object to the new policy, inline rifles once again legalized.  Today thousands of rank and file hunters and shooters, people just like those who wrote to protest Colorado's disingenuous ban on inlines, have lit up the Internet with their posts in angry protest to Mr. Zumbo's ill-informed and ill-conceived remarks.

While Zumbo may not like the black guns, he is sadly mistaken if he thinks the Second Amendment is about hunting or that responsible hunters should not use such weapons because others object to their look and feel.  Limiting hunting firearms by their look and feel is an example of ignorance in action and is a very steep and slippery slope. 

Thank you again for your prompt action.

Sincerely,

[name]
[email address]
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Offline Mr. Joe

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2007, 02:36:07 AM »
Wow!!! Zumbo is a clown!
I am not afraid to make an example out of you

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2007, 04:15:10 AM »
I contacted every sponsor of Zumbo.
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Offline jro45

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2007, 05:03:47 AM »
I sent my responce to remington.

Offline handirifle

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2007, 11:34:44 AM »
CH
Thanks for the link, and congrats on the new job ;D

I sent thim a nice letter.

The NRA has called him history as well.   Looks like retirement came sooner than he thought ;)
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2007, 02:35:24 PM »
Remington and Outdoor Life both have already canned him. He lost his TV show as well. I think Ted Nugent is about the only one standing up for him now. I guess he figures his audience is mostly the young folks who listen to his music so he's immune to damage done by such an act. In my opinion his actions in standing up for the man prove he's not really as "pro gun" as he claims.


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Offline banen

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2007, 03:09:25 PM »
First of all I want to preface this with several points

1.I am an avid hunter, it is my very favorite pass time and something I look forward to all year long
2.I own quite a many guns.  Much to my wife’s dismay  ;)
3.I am a staunch supporter of second amendment rights and the NRA including our right to own semi automatic rifles regardless weather they look like an AR-15 or a Remington 7400.  In fact, the mouse pad under my hand right now was purchased at the NRA headquarters on Wamples Mill road, in Fairfax VA and has the second amendment on it.  I went to the NRA to become a member just because I thought it was a worth the trip. 
4.I do think that Zumbo went overboard and over sensationalized his point.


Ok now that I have that out of the way, I believe there is some truth to some of what Zumbo says. 

“We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles. We've always been proud of our "sporting firearms."

This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, an assault rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them.”

I see hunting and 2nd amendment rights as two separate but related causes.

We have the RIGHT to own guns.  The constitution makes no mention of hunting or fishing so I find it ridiculous and infuriating when gun control activists and liberals say it is ok to outlaw semi auto’s / “assault weapons” because you don’t need one to hunt.  I do not believe we have to justify our right to own a gun based on its hunting utility

We do not have a RIGHT to hunt.  I don’t think we as Hunters do ourselves any favors in the eye of public opinion by taking the woods with an M-60 (though it should not be illegal).  I am preaching to the choir if I tell you all that we should be able to the firearm of our choice in the woods with but the unfortunate reality is that in today’s society Hunters are a Minority.  The Majority does not understand that our sport is not a violent, blood thirsty, ego centric, testosterone educed rage (I think that covers a few of the things people have called me).  WRONG, but that is the perception and unfortunately perception is reality to the uninitiated.  The arguments to support hunting have nothing to do with the constitution, but with the efficacy of hunting as a positive impact on our environment and economy.  Hunters fund wildlife management and do more for the preservation of wildlife than any other group of people.  They also contribute greatly to local economies buy purchasing gear, four wheel drives, gas, lodging, four wheelers, clothing, licenses, plane tickets, magazines, etc and even helping good old Graybeard collect advertising revenue by frequenting his excellent sight.  

So I guess all of this rambling only serves the purpose to say I think there is UNFORTUNATELY some truth to Zumbo’s point (and to rile a few of you up who I am sure will disagree, hopefully respectfully). 

“A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”

Offline deltecs

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2007, 11:14:36 AM »
Remington like Zumbo is obsolete.  A venerable and iconic firearms manufactures is now in the hands new management.  The new management is completely unaware of the differences of assault weapons or anything else firearms related.  The new thinking to achieve Camelot ideals is for no firearms and the individuals' perception that for greater good the whole is worth more than the individual.  Zumbo's remarks, while not smart, were intended to illuminate sportsman to be aware of these nova thinkers perceptions with regard to our hunting PRIVELDGE not RIGHT.  We should be taking a media person with us every time we go into the field.  I know that they won't come because their personal conviction prevents the concept of hunting as a sport.  Media perception of firearms ownership and hunting are barbarian in the exteme; all this while telling the rest of the world that we are ignorant too.  Zumbo made a critical mistake that is unlikely to be forgiven.  However, we, as sportsman need more people like him who have the flair and verve to capture the attention of the ignorant about hunting.  I just wish Zumbo hadn't made his infamous comments.  I would have thought he was more knowledgeable about different weapons than he was.  Hopefully his pennance will benefit our cause.  I don't think contacting any employer about Zumbo's remarks is beneficial to us.  I do think contacting Zumbo about his remarks is proper.
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Offline Buckfever

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2007, 01:05:32 PM »
Related issue, some 10 or so years ago the State of Minnesota passed a bill Guaranteed the Right to Hunt and Fish.  This was done by a group of forward thinking individuals who wanted to keep the sportsmen out of the middle of politics between anti-hunters, politicians, firearm companies and Lobbies.  It is passed and on the record books!  Hats off to those sportsmen that got the job done before the storm!   Buckfever

Offline The Gamemaster

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2007, 12:16:15 PM »
Here is the other side of the coin.

[Edited by Moderator (that's me) to remove personal attack.  Coyote Hunter]

No sportsman - with a good conscience would attack another sportsman over something as insignificant as their opinion of a assault rifle.

I do not own a assault rifle, nor do I have the desire to own a assault rifle.

I could have bought any one that I waned a few years ago for $75 when there was a scare put on by the govt. to have them outlawed.

The only reason why people buy these weapons in my opinion is because they fear that they are going to be illegal and after that they will not be able to just go out and buy one.

Some people think that if they do not buy it that it will be junked and they do not want to see a good gun go to waste 0r become extinct.  Only problem with that idea is even if you cut 1000 SKS rifles a day in half and threw them into the steel mills furnace.  It would take you 3000 years to get rid of all  of the SKS's that were ever built.

For a hunter to do something as idiotic as to cost a man his job - is just insane.

Who are you?  What gives you the right to do that?  How would you like it if I was to call who ever signs your paycheck and tell them that I want you fired and you loose your job and cannot provide for your family.  You wouldn't like that too much at all.

Remington does not make any of these rifles that he spoke of and their best strategy would have been to just ignore the idiots with these guns and just let it blow over.

Some of the people that owns Machine Guns do not even own a Remington firearm nor do they buy Remington Ammo due to the fact that most of these spray and pray people want what ever is the cheapest thing that goes bang.



Offline deltecs

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2007, 01:04:47 PM »
First of all, we again are erroneous in our definition of assault rifle.  AN ASSAULT WEAPON IS ONE THAT USES FULL AUTO OR HAS THE CAPABILITY.  Zumbo's erroneous perception of what is an assault rifle seems to be the same as some of our posts.  Hunters are using similar looking semi auto rifle for hunting or target practice.  Just because the AR 15( Mini 14 ) in semi auto looks and handles just like its military brother, it is not the same weapon.  No more firepower will result from it as compared to any other semi auto in the same caliber.  It is no more dangerous than a Win model 100 for example.  The ignorant do not know this.  Zumbo's remarks were in error.  His definition of an assault rifle is in error.  Zumbo has since educated himself and is attempting to correct the error.  That may not be good enough penance for the outdoorsman.  Contacting employers without first contacting Zumbo regarding his comments is totally counterproductive.  Ridiculing our own post members publicly does the same.
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2007, 04:22:36 PM »
Here is the other side of the coin.

[Edited by Moderator (that's me) to remove personal attack.  Coyote Hunter]

No sportsman - with a good conscience would attack another sportsman over something as insignificant as their opinion of a assault rifle.

In other words, Zumbo gets to exercise his right to speech but those who strongly disagree with him do not?

Quote
I do not own a assault rifle, nor do I have the desire to own a assault rifle.

I could have bought any one that I waned a few years ago for $75 when there was a scare put on by the govt. to have them outlawed.

The only reason why people buy these weapons in my opinion is because they fear that they are going to be illegal and after that they will not be able to just go out and buy one.

Some people think that if they do not buy it that it will be junked and they do not want to see a good gun go to waste 0r become extinct.  Only problem with that idea is even if you cut 1000 SKS rifles a day in half and threw them into the steel mills furnace.  It would take you 3000 years to get rid of all  of the SKS's that were ever built.

Like you I don’t own any but a Galil in .308 win would be nice.  My brother has one, unfired.

Quote
For a hunter to do something as idiotic as to cost a man his job - is just insane.

The person that cost Zumbo his job was … Zumbo.  He spoke plainly about what his views were and his sponsors dropped their support as a result.  The situation is bvery much akin to what just happened with the racist Don Imus, who lost an 8 million a year gig because of his mouth.

Quote
Who are you?  What gives you the right to do that?  How would you like it if I was to call who ever signs your paycheck and tell them that I want you fired and you loose your job and cannot provide for your family.  You wouldn't like that too much at all.

Just another US citizen with the same rights as Zumbo.  If you wish to call my boss and tell him I should be fired, feel free.  He will ask you why.


Quote
Remington does not make any of these rifles that he spoke of and their best strategy would have been to just ignore the idiots with these guns and just let it blow over.

Remington does not make any of these rifles – yet.  But they make a 7600 and semi-auto shotguns which are very similar in function if not looks. 

Quote
Some of the people that owns Machine Guns do not even own a Remington firearm nor do they buy Remington Ammo due to the fact that most of these spray and pray people want what ever is the cheapest thing that goes bang.

The guns in question were not “Machine Guns” – they were semi-automatic weapons, not full automatic.  Most of the people I know who have them are not interested in the “cheapest thing that goes bang” as they are involved in competitive shooting.  That said, rapid fire is a lot of fun and cheap ammo is not a bad thing at all.

While you may disagree, it would seem that Remington felt it necessary and beneficial to end their long and presumably profitable relationship with Zumbo due to his expressed views.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2007, 08:35:17 PM »
Todays hunting rifle was yesterdays assult rifle.  Think about it for a minute.  During the war of 1776, the Colonist had the latest and greatest assult weapons, Rifles!  The British had smooth bores.  During the War Of Northern Aggression, the new Lever Actions were the latest assult weapons.  WW-1 The bolt action Springfield rifle.  During WW-II The M1-Garand, M1-30 Carbine, and the BAR, were the latest and greatest assult weapons.

Most of todays populer hunting guns are improved versions of these.  Marlins lever actions, Rugers Mini-14 and 30.  Todays BAR is still a BAR.  On the North Slope many young men use an AR-15 to hunt Caribou.  So todays assult rifles will be tomorrows populer hunting guns.  A young man that I watched grow up, and taught to shoot and hunt, bought a AR-15 M-4 this week.  He got a .308 barrel for it and is planning to hunt Caribou with it this fall.  Maybe even Black Bear next month.  And I love it when three or four cayotes answer a call, and I have my Mini-14.

Just because you personally don't like a particuler gun, does not mean it is not someones hunting gun.
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Offline BigJakeJ1s

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2007, 04:56:46 PM »
A hunting rifle is any rifle you hunt with. I've even considered an AR10 with a 358 win bbl as one heck of a hog gun!

Andy

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2007, 06:10:58 PM »
A hunting rifle is any rifle you hunt with. I've even considered an AR10 with a 358 win bbl as one heck of a hog gun!

Andy

An AR in .358 would be rather comforting when they get pissed at close range and closing.  My only experience is with domestics and 12 gauge slugs between the eyes from a couple feet, and it wasn't fun.  (Let me assure you there is nothing immediately vital between the eyes and the throat and the pigs do get upset ...   :o :o :o
 
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Offline dakotah

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2007, 01:58:40 AM »
Is this becoming a political forum???

Offline The Gamemaster

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2007, 03:19:39 AM »
[****This post was deleted in it's entirety do to personal attacks, which will not be tolerated against any individual as long as I'm Moderator.  Coyote Hunter.

Gamemaster - you are welcome to try again without the person attacks. ****]
 

Offline dakotah

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2007, 04:02:42 AM »
It is amazing that people who feel their second amendment rights are questioned would deny another man his first amendment rights!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2007, 12:02:53 PM »
It is amazing that people who feel their second amendment rights are questioned would deny another man his first amendment rights!!!!!!!!!!!!

dakotah -

No one has denied Zumbo his First Amendment rights.  Not me, not people on the Internet, not Remington, not his previous sponsors.

If someone spouts racist hate speech you do not have to associate yourself with that person simply because they have a First Amendment right to make a fool of themselves.  Same with Zumbo.  He had a right to say what he did, others had a right to disassociate themselves from him because they don't share his opinions.

I have no problems writing companies when I think they are in the wrong, nor to write in support their actions if I think they are doing something right, as in this case.  Zumbo is entitled to his opinions and is quite welcome to excercise his First Amendment rights on any from any platform he can find.  But no one is required to provide that platform.

 
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Offline carbine mike

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2007, 04:12:22 PM »
  Sorry but I cant feel sorry For Zumbo. Jim is not in the same position the average joe out here are. He has made a heck of a living over a lot of years because we have a Second Admendment that doesnt distinguish between types of firearms. He has hunted and shoot a bunch of semi-auto pistols, rifles andshotguns and to condemn one style simply because of its apperance was abig mistake. Anyone that thinks that the anti-gun side wont use a promenent writer and shooter like Zumbos opinions to further their cause is wrong. Zumbo apoligized shortley after his comments started getting flack but he should thought about this before he posted.  He may have been tired like he said but he still screwed up!!! I do think we will see him back but I believe a lot of journalists may think a liittle more before the type.

Offline jim huntington

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2007, 02:07:21 PM »
       I have liked Jim for a long time and have enjoyed his shows on the outdoor channel.I hadnt heard the whole story, up until know after reading the insert in this forum and I had also seen the Ted Nugent show were Jim Z was put on the spot more or less for his actions.I think he cuold have expressed his opinion on the subject and not had gotten half as much flak if he had only chosen his words more carefully.He could of just said I dont like the looks of them and wouldnt want one.That would have been that! But his poor choice of words done him in. He also crossed the line when he advocated to not let these rifles be used for hunting.The only thing different with these guns and the ones we hunt with is strickly cosmetic. In a way we all are like Jim Z. We as sportsman and wemen all have different opinions on what is acceptable or not in what ever outdoor activity we do. Alot of traditional archers were against compound bow useres,now alot of sportsmen are against the cross bow and these new military rifles.Some of the old smoke pole shooters were and are against the new inlines.The list goes on. As the old saying goes, dont knock it unless you try it! ( as long as its legal ).We as sportsmen shouldnt pass judgement on anything until we have tried it. We should at least respect the right of other sportsmen and their choices. If we dont do this, the anties will finally win  and we will all be crying over cold beer if they hadnt taken that away from us also. Jim Z. LEARNED THE HARD WAY. One good thing came of this. It woke everyone up and got their attention. :P

Offline BattleRifleG3

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2007, 05:15:31 AM »
I've been told that the version at the top of the page is actually abridged from what he originally wrote.  Is the original version out there anywhere, or did anyone copy and save it?  I was told that he went into more detail, attacking the 7.62x39mm round as underpowered, all while hunting Coyotes with a rimfire 17.

Zumbo's comments were quickly grabbed by the Brady Campaign and were read on the senate floor by anti-gunner Carl Levin.  Zumbo has since written a response and asked it to be entered into the congressional record, stating that his words were misused and he never meant to advocate a ban of possession or production.
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Offline S.S.

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2007, 02:19:54 AM »
First of all, I must say that a lot of the time we are our own worst enemies
when it comes to hunting "Rights". In the 80's everybody called these types of weapons as ASSAULT WEAPON/RIFLES..Our own fault here for choosing the wrong words. also, Have you seen some of the hunting videos that are on the market? The same Videos the anti-gun/hunting folks see! I saw one about a prairie dog hunt where the "Shooters" were acting like complete idiots every time they connected.
Another seemed to emphasize how much the animal was Actually suffering in the
"Real and in your face" hunt.. They were showing how the animal really reacted
rather than the edited TV version. This kind of crap does far more damage than ZUMBO ever did. It gives the impression that hunters have a BLOOD LUST for killing.
And get some sort of erotic pleasure from watching animals die in terrible ways.
New cartridges are touted for their "EXPLOSIVE Downrange effect" .
New Gun ads exploit "Sexy" women to sell their wares..
What kind of message is all this crap sending? Not a good one I'll bet. Maybe we shouldn't stop with Zumbo, Maybe we should police up all the other garbage that is being spewed around also. Maybe all these gun makers and accessorie makers
should know that scantily clad women are not necessary and Blood with Guts hanging out do not make for a good Video. Zumbo is done, Energy can be expended elsewhere.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2007, 01:50:04 PM »
S.S. --

There is certainly no shortage of idiots, no matter where you look.  I would strongly encourage you to write to them and/or to their sponsors.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline Ponydog

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2007, 03:28:45 AM »
OK...maybe Zumbo did put his foot in hie mouth .....but the fact is , he has a right to his opinion....and being pro-gun has nothing to do with it.  We have become a society of thin skinned....watch what we say , think of all the ramifications of the 1% of people this may offend , before we dare open our politically correct mouths.    All I ever needed to hear was the old phrase we learned in grade school....but have all seemed to have forgotten......."sticks and stones may break my bones..but words will never hurt me".     We , as a society, lets words hurt us....we tell our children that words hurt us......go hang out in a playground and listen the way kids deal with honesty , and problems.   They call fat kids fat, skinny kids skinny, pretty kids pretty, cools kids cool, slow kids slow..and kids that are not athletic nerds or geeks....the ones who are called the names....don't pick up a phone and try to find the "Truth Minister...AL Sharpton".....they look at themselves , and say ..ok, I am fat, or I am slow...or , I am a geek...or I am skinny ...then ...45 seconds later....they are right back to playing....wouldn't that be nice after we have all grown up.....seems like the kids are the only ones that can handle a few names.....
“when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government.”

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2007, 12:14:51 PM »
OK...maybe Zumbo did put his foot in hie mouth .....but the fact is , he has a right to his opinion....

You are absolutely, 100% correct on both counts- he did put his foot in his mouth and he does have the right to his own opinion.  Further, he has the right to espouse his opinion to anyone that will listen.  More power to him.

On the other hand, no one has to listen and of those that do, no one has to agree.  They, too, have the right to espouse their opinion to anyone that will listen.

Think of it this way - Remington manufactures semi-automatic rifles and shotguns.  Zumbo called for a ban on semi-automatic weapons that are functionally the same but different cosmetically.  Zumbo had the right to speak his mind and Remington had the right to decide his views were at odds with the best interests of the company and to terminate their sponsorship of him accordingly. 

The essence of "free speech" is Zumbo gets his say, if he can find anyone to listen.  The people who agree or disagree get their say under the same conditions.

Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Please contact Remington regarding Zumbo
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2007, 02:21:26 PM »
OK...maybe Zumbo did put his foot in hie mouth .....but the fact is , he has a right to his opinion....

You are absolutely, 100% correct on both counts- he did put his foot in his mouth and he does have the right to his own opinion.  Further, he has the right to espouse his opinion to anyone that will listen.  More power to him.

On the other hand, no one has to listen and of those that do, no one has to agree.  They, too, have the right to espouse their opinion to anyone that will listen.

Think of it this way - Remington manufactures semi-automatic rifles and shotguns.  Zumbo called for a ban on semi-automatic weapons that are functionally the same but different cosmetically.  Zumbo had the right to speak his mind and Remington had the right to decide his views were at odds with the best interests of the company and to terminate their sponsorship of him accordingly. 

The essence of "free speech" is Zumbo gets his say, if he can find anyone to listen.  The people who agree or disagree get their say under the same conditions.



Yep!!
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.