Long range sights

[handirifle]

I'm building a budget BPCR (really budget) with an NEF receiver and a 38-55 barrel.  I'm slowly gathering info and parts for my project.

My question here, and I hope it's not off topic, is about the old scopes used by the BPCR shooeter.  I have read up some on these and might go to an MVA "style" scope, but for now I'm looking for something cheaper.

OK, here goes.

After reading about the MVA style scopes it seems they all move in the monuts on recoil.  This is not really what I'm after.  Dues to eyesight issues, even after LASIK, iron sights are still hard for me to use.  IF I mounted a 1" steel tube, say 18" long, in a set of scope bases, that had a set of crosshairs in it, would this work on the same single focal plane concept as an optical scope?

If this is off topic here, I apologize, but I figure you guys might know best the old style scopes I'm referring to.  If the single plane idea of mine IS correct, I'll try to design a set of mounts that are windage and elevation adjustable, since the crosshairs will not be.

Any input you can give me on this is appreciated.

Thanks

[StrawHat]

I remember reading about such a sighting tube in an old copy of Muzzle Blasts.  Given enough time I might come up with an author but probably not for that article!

Anyway I haven't read MB for at least 25 years so it will definately be an old issue. 

i also recall seeing such a sight at the Log Cabin Sport Shoppe in Lodi Ohio.  This was back when Wes was still alive.  The boys have taken over and done well with the shop.  Try contacting them, maybe Oz or Dan will remember more than I can.

Sorry for the vague answer but my memory card is full and I can't get a new one.

Good Luck

[Ray Newman]

What you are referring to is called a “Tube Sight”.

@ one time, the John Unertl Company made such a sight.

I haven’t seen a tube sight for sale or made by another company in many years.

If you fabricate your own, the cost & availability of the external mounts will be a factor. 

You might call Gil Parsons @ Parsons Optical (513-867-0820) for any leads on who is still building such a sight or where one could be found.

The below link has Unertl tube sights for sale.
http://www.alexweb.net/unertl/index.htm

You might also post your query over on the American Single Shot Rifle Association board.

[handirifle]

Thanks ray.

I do know of a couple at least I think so.  MVA makes one (too much money for me) and I think Leatherwood.

[dodd3]

handirifle  the ones  from mva are not a tube sights they are scopes, tubes sights are not scopes there is no glass or magnification whith a tube sight the tube was the foruner to the scope sight.
bernie

[Lead pot]

A while back I seen a brass tube sight in one of the catalogs, it was a tube sight with no magnification, I dont remember which might have been Dixie or Cabala's, or maybe Track of the Wolf I dont remember.

Kurt

[handirifle]

handirifle  the ones  from mva are not a tube sights they are scopes, tubes sights are not scopes there is no glass or magnification whith a tube sight the tube was the foruner to the scope sight.
bernie

Yes, you are right.  Has anyone here ever looked through a "tube sight"?

[Ray Newman]

I have.

It was mounted on a now-deceased Fellow Shooter’s Browning .45-2.1", M1885.

From the looks of it, a skilled machinist fabricated it to accept the Lyman mounts. I don‘t think that it was ‘store-bought’. From what the gun shop told Ron, it was originally built for a target grade muzzle loader.

IIRC, the tube dia. was approx, 7/8" in dia. The rear part of the tube was threaded to accept apertures of various dia. or colours ??

I really don’t think that tube was very long & I can’t recall the mount spacing. I'm not sure if Ron installed a different front sight.

The guys on the American Single Shot Rifle Association board would probably have more info.

It’s been almost 17 years that Ron passed so I really can’t recall all the details of the sight. I do recall that he was very deadly w/ the rifle & I made a mistake when I didnt accept his daughter’s offer to sell me the rifle & the sight….

[handirifle]

Thanks RayYea we all have at least one story like that.  If you recall, did it have a "peep" hole in the rear with maybe crosshairs somewhere up front.

That is what I'm starting to envision for mine anyway.
I have the front, windage adjustable mount set up, in my head anyway.  Still working on the rear, verticle adjusting mount though.

[ShortStake]

handrifle,

Several decades ago the IHMSA types utilized some form of "tube" sight without any magnification.  As to whether or not anyone else can remember and provide further information is a moot point.  To my knoweldge no NRA Silhouette rules specifically address the use of "tube" sights in competition.  When the NRA does not address an item of equipment it falls into the "not covered" paragraph and is deemed as "not approved" for use.  This includes many, many items seen on the firing line which are basically illegal for use but the Rangemaster just looks the other way instead of creating a lot of ill will.  Examples being; the plastic "blinder" extension used on the rear tang sight to obstruct the eye not used for sighting.  Another good example of "not covered" is the addition of non-slip backed tape onto the buttplates of rifles.  And then of course the many eyepieces and cheek rests that show up on the firing line after rifles are inspected, if they are inspected at all.  Most folks practice the logic of "having fun" and not being equipment lawyers when shooting BPCR Silhouette/Mid and Long Range matches.  Also seen on many firing lines are those folks that paint their front sight inserts to contrast with the animal silhouette or target being fired upon.  The list goes on and on....  Much like other sports, BPCR match shooting is an equipment race whether agreed upon or not.   

[Ray Newman]

HandiRifle: As said, I really think that you should also pose your question over of the American Single Shot Assoc &/or the Wyoming Schuetzen Union boards. There are some every knowledgeable & experienced long time shooters over there. Maybe even look @ the Nat’l Muzzle Loading Assoc board?

I looked in G.O. Kelver’s “Reloading Tools, Sights and Telescopes” (1982). For Unertl, the info on the ‘tube sight was sketchy @ best: no optical system, an "adjustable peep” (no explanation as to what this means) to regulate the am’t of light on sight & target, used in conjunction w/ front sight.

Kelver claims that some shooters also replaced the front mount w/ a rear mount to keep the sight parallel, but this was only necessary for shooting outdoors @ distances greater than 100 yds. This was the only information that I could find on tube sights in that book.

As I suggest earlier, give Gil Parsons a call. He’s been in the ‘scope & mount fabrication & repair business for many years.

Given your visual problems, would  a tube sight work for you. My eyesight isn’t the best & iron sights are extremely difficult for me to use --even @ 100 yds. I “loose” the front t sight & the target is very difficult to see.

If you took a piece of tubing, cut out a disc of cardboard w/ a hole centered, put this on the end of the tube, then mounted this via spacers & tape to your rifle, & “sighted it”, would you get an idea as to whether you will be able see the target & /or the front sight w/ a tube sight??

Are you planning on mounting this on a NEF Handi Rifle? Over on the Shiloh board you made some posts ‘bout rebarreling a Handi Rifle to .38-55??

[handirifle]

I will look into the other forums for more details.  I guess, for this rifle at least, I'm not as concerned about the actual rules as much as the "fun" factor.  I do not know how well it will work out for me.  I do better with a peep, than plain open sights, but still not as well as with a scope.  This idea, does not have any magnification either.  Time will tell how well it works.

ray,
Yes, this will be an NEF, 38-55, to start.  And that was me asking there as well.  I figure this will be a much cheaper experiment than a Sharps, just to make sure I can do it.  I have plans to mount a tube somehow on the rifle, once I get it.  The receiver is due at the gun shop today.  Once I wait out the CA 10 day period, I'll send the receiver off for a barrel and start looking for a stock.  This is still cheaper than buying one from a local dealer, just takes a bit longer.

[MLR]

On the ASSRA forum there is a guy that made his own.
http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1167947503
  Michael

[handirifle]

MLR
Thanks, I posted a question over there.