Is It Safe To Tumble Reloaded Rounds?

[winman]

I reload lots of pistol and rifle ammunition. I have no need to ever tumble my rifle reloads but do sometimes tumble my cast bullet pistol cartridges to remove some lead residue and leftover lubricant from my loaded rounds.  I'm not concerned about my pistol rounds firing while in the tumbler but I am concerned about the action of the tumbler changing the burning rate of the powder inside of the cartridges. If the powder 'breaks down' into smaller particles I'm afraid the burning rate could increase significantly. Do any of you think tumbling loaded pistol cartridges is unsafe? 

[beemanbeme]

Just imagine how many miles (read vibration) your powder travels via trucks and trains and even airplanes before you ever get your hands on it.  Then the chance of the powder changing burn characteristics when you give it a turn in the tumbler is pretty remote.
One of our beloved gun rag writers (obviously on a slow news day) started the concept with regards to a box of ammo being transported in the glove box of a hunting car over several days of hunting.  Some powder or bullet company computed that you could drive many, many thousand miles without altering the powder.
I've never tumbled pistol ammo but I have tumbled rifle ammo.  I don't do it as a regular thing but don't really see any problem with it.  They do it at the factory.  I hope my post doesn't start some sort of chicken little shouting match.   

[skb2706]

I done it before with rifle ammo and although it sounds dangerous at first...considering the "real" issues it really isn't. MY experience with factoids from gun writers is that often they have too much time on their hands and rarely think through the obvious.

[NONYA]

Dont you get the tumbling media packed in around the primer/pocket,and if so does it cause any problems?

[stimpylu32]

  I hope my post doesn't start some sort of chicken little shouting match.   

Not while i'm here ! 

And as you said they do it at the factory , this i know for a fact as i have seen it first hand in a Remington factory that i was doing a wiring job in .

stimpy

[Lone Star]

Lyman Products Turbo Tumbler Instructions:  "Under no circumstances should live ammo or primed cases be tumbled "

RCBS Vibratory Case Cleaner Instructions:  "Do not attempt to clean loaded ammunition under any conditions "

RCBS Sidewinder Casse Tumbler: "Do not attempt to clean loaded ammunition.  To do so could result in cartridge detonation causing serious personal injury "

Polishing loaded ammunition in a controller factory loading environment cannot be compared to the average home reloader's unsupervized, untested use of equipment whose makers specifically proscribe the polishing of loaded ammunition. 

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[KN]

I gota go with Lone Star on this one. Nothing to really base it on but just the thought of doing it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.   KN

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive done it for years with the 223 ammo i crank out on my 550. I tumble them just long enough to get the case lube off. I dont think a gun would want to tumble them all night long as it might effect the powder. But in all my years ive yet to hear of a round cooking off in a tumbler and cant see how possible a round could be hit by anything with enough force to set off a primmer rolling anound in a tumbler. Hell hardies puts a hot coffee warning on its coffee cups now too! Just lawyers covering asses!

[skb2706]

If you peruse the manual that comes with ANY new gun. They all recommend against using handloaded ammo.

Gun makers specifically precribe to the notion that handloaded ammo is a no-no regardless of whether it is tumbled or not.

Point being, just because a manufacturer says "don't" ....doesn't mean we don't...if we followed their suggestion we would all be shooting factory ammo. Thus no need for this thread.

Doubtful that two hours in a tumbler is any worse than all day on the butt of my rifle, several hours in ammo boxes bouncing over hill and dale in the back of the truck.

[beemanbeme]

Why can't the tumbling of loaded ammo that goes on in my shop be compared to what happens at say Remingtons???  Do they use a different media?? What is the difference and why can't they be compared?  Also, just to carry this silly game forward, what do you reckon would happen if a round were to go off??  (and for amusement sake, we'll accept story from your buddy's uncle's cousin's friend who was talking to a guy in a bar that shot his next door neighbor thru a brick wall when a round went off in his tumbler)

Maybe the tumblers should carry a warning like a model 94: "Warning, tumble only flat point or round nosed loaded ammo" 

[KN]

I imagine the worst case would be replacing your tumbler. Of course I wouldn't want to setting next to it at the time.    KN

[Badnews Bob]

I do it.

[Lone Star]

Why can't the tumbling of loaded ammo that goes on in my shop be compared to what happens at say Remingtons???  Do they use a different media?? What is the difference and why can't they be compared? 

Simple really - some have perhaps 100 years of experience to have learned what type of polisher to use (vibratory, rotary, etc.), what speeds to use, the density of cartridges per quantiry of media and size of polisher, how long to polish, testing of the ammo before and after polishing to determine any ballistic changes.......things that few home loaders would ever do.  I imagine that they polished until they discovered a problem so they could define their limits.   Run a pressure test on your polished ammo and see what differences there are before and after polishing.  Then perhaps you can compare your polishing with what professionals do. 

As far as the statement: "I've done it for years and never had a problem: - that is akin to saying "I've been driving drunk for years and never had an accident."  Past performence is no guaranty of the future unless the limits and the risks have been defined. 

Hey, do what you want with your ammo, I'm just repeating the factory warnings that others attributed to gun writers so they could bash them again.   

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[NONYA]

WHY DO IT ANYWAYS?

[Lloyd Smale]

when loading bottleneck cartidges on a 550 or other progressive press you have to lube the case before you start and get it off when your done sizing and its alot easier just to tumble the loaded rounds for a 1/2 hour then it is to pull them all after sizing and clean them and then start over in the press.

WHY DO IT ANYWAYS?

[NONYA]

I lube my brass on a oil rolling pad before I size,i never bothered to clean it off,always figured it would help keep the action lubed,is there any negative results from leaving the lube on the rounds?

[dubber123]

Nonya, a couple come to mind, in many, if not all cartridges, the gun depends on the brass gripping the chamber walls a bit at firing to help prevent case set back in the action.  This was one of the biggest problems with the S&W 22 Jet cartridge, if there was any lube of any kind in the chambers, the cases would set back and tie up the action. I believe S&W recommended cleaning the chambers dry with rubbing alcohol to prevent set back.  Thats an extreme example, but you get the idea. In a rifle, it's probably just a little harder on the action than necessary.  The second reason I can think of is that the lube tends to attract and retain dust and grit.  Hope this helps.

[Old English]

I have never even considered tumbling loaded rounds but.... the round is triggered by the pointed firing pin hitting the prime, right?? How can that happen in a tumbler?? The truck dleivering the powder must bump over rough roads a great deal as it delivers the powder, from one place to another. Why the hell would a loaded round in a tumbler be more dangerous than Powder? The primer, would seem to be the answer. The primer requires a solid bump from a narrow firing pin, which we don;t have in a tumbler.

Seems Ok to me, but I will just keep wiping my rounds witha rag to ger rid of lube. This method also works.

[stimpylu32]

Nonya, a couple come to mind, in many, if not all cartridges, the gun depends on the brass gripping the chamber walls a bit at firing to help prevent case set back in the action.  This was one of the biggest problems with the S&W 22 Jet cartridge, if there was any lube of any kind in the chambers, the cases would set back and tie up the action. I believe S&W recommended cleaning the chambers dry with rubbing alcohol to prevent set back.  Thats an extreme example, but you get the idea. In a rifle, it's probably just a little harder on the action than necessary.  The second reason I can think of is that the lube tends to attract and retain dust and grit.  Hope this helps.

All valid points and then there is the stuck factor , most single shots will have a bad problem with brass sticking with a oily or dirty chamber . The H&R and Rossi are real good examples .

stimpy

[AiredaleTerrier]

Would a set of carbide dies eliminate the need for case lube which would eliminate the trip in the tumbler?

[Badnews Bob]

Would a set of carbide dies eliminate the need for case lube which would eliminate the trip in the tumbler?

Only for pistol dies you still need to lube rifle dies.

[AiredaleTerrier]

Gotcha   

[Siskiyou]

Some years back I visited the loading operation of a manufacture of new and reloaded ammunition.  I was surprised to see three cement mixers full of corn material and newly loaded ammunition being tumbled.  At the time there was a number of other cement mixers standing by to be used.

This operation loads and sells thousands of rounds a month.  It is common to see the ammunition being sold at gun stores, and gun shows.  Back in my LEO days we shot up cases of it on the range.  The ammunition was stable and accurate.

 :-\Yes, it did make me nervous but the outfit has been in business for a long time, and not big bang.

[Wingman26]

One of the old wives tales is that it breaks down the powder, creating a dangerous condition. This has been tested many times, there is one guy that tumbled loaded ammo for a week, then compared velocity to his reference sample that hadn't been tumbled at all, there was no difference in average velocity between the samples.

Some might be scared of a unintentional discharge inside the tumbler, but a cartridge that isn't contained within a chamber doesn't carry a large risk, if it discharges the greatest danger would be to your eyes, there will be some scrapnel, but if you aren't around it when it happens all it will do is make a mess, or if you are wearing safety glasses to protect your eyes the danger would be minimal.