Author Topic: .243 started good ended bad!? (Read 1639 times)

sms1717 · « **on:** February 26, 2007, 02:30:57 PM »

I took out my new .243 ultra varmint today. I started at 25 yards(ish) with 100gr federal power shoks got her dialed in (just bore sighted). Moved out to 100 yards(ish) deep snow not very accurate paces and my first shot was about 5" high?? I dialed her down close to bullseye made a 3 shot group resting on a picnic table and hot seat and managed to make 2 touch and the 3rd an 1/4" away (amazed!!!). Then made scope adjustments for bullseye switched to 80gr. of same ammo BULLSEYE! Awesome next two shots w/ 80 gr. made a 1 and 1/2" group (very pleased). Then tried 55gr winchester supreme ballistic tips they went every where at least a 6" spread, NOT HAPPY! So I concluded I would stick with the federal power-shoks CASE CLOSED literally and went home. Oh and by the way the ejector worked flawlessly.
I went out and bought a steady point shooting rest to see if I could make all 3 touch, call me a perfectionist if you will. So, I went back out this afternoon and set up on the ground (prone?) at 100 yards(ish) my first shot 5-6" high??? I dialed scope down and let another rip and another and another 6 shots total the last shell didn't eject? And my shots spread 4" wide and 4" high??!!. NOT HAPPY. I came home and cleaned her out with hoppes #9 solvent and copper terminator and ran light oil patch down and patched til dry. Oh and shell came out with light poke of the cleaning rod. And test it with unfired shell worked good. I checked scope seems tight (it just came from gunsmith on saturday put new bushnell elite 3200 3x9x40).
Try again tommorow.
Anybody have any ideas?

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #1 on:** February 26, 2007, 02:38:50 PM »

I would say your gun likes the 80 grain. I would not shoot the lighter stuff.

bigjeepman · « **Reply #2 on:** February 26, 2007, 02:44:58 PM »

Sounds like to me that you had a very productive day despite snow, etc. In my limited experiences, I haven't had any rifle that would shoot a full spectrum of available bullets well. If your .243 is shooting the 80gr and the 100gr bullets well, then I would consider myself fortunate to own an accurate rifle. If you need/want a rifle to shoot the 50gr - 55gr bullets, then I suggest you get a .223. So you see ... your day didn't end badly because now you have a need for another rifle.

sms1717 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 26, 2007, 03:09:32 PM »

Sorry guys, I wasn't finished. I must of hit the magic to post it but I wasn't done. It's now complete, so my day did end bad.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** February 26, 2007, 04:00:26 PM »

Read the FAQs and Helps sticky info on chamber polishing and keeping the chamber clean, ejectors barrels will stick brass if the chamber is dirty.

Tim

handirifle · « **Reply #5 on:** February 26, 2007, 04:09:12 PM »

I wouldn't be too quick to mess with the scope settings like you did. It shot two different loads into the bull and for the afternoon session was very high. What changed, the rest.

Not familiar with the stoney point, BUT what ever you were doing for a rest, including the resting point was obviously working, and the afternoon session was not.

I assume the stoney point is not a bipod but rather a regular rest.

If you were resting it too far forward on the forend, this could be causing barrel contact, or at least upward pressure and that could/would explain the sudden POI shift. That plus you were in a prone position, which changed things too. Remember the Handi's are sometimes very susseptable to where your hand/rest is placed on the forarm. Most like it best when rested just ahead of the hinge point.

Make sure the forearm isn't loose.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 26, 2007, 05:37:43 PM »

sms1717

You may find that after a good cleaning that your shots are not at the same POI as before , most Handis like a fouled bore also forearm support is critical with these rifles so if you find something that works stick with it .

One more thing they tend to settle down the more rounds you put down range as the bore wears in .

stimpy

Mac11700 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 26, 2007, 06:26:51 PM »

Quote

Then tried 55gr winchester supreme ballistic tips they went every where at least a 6" spread, NOT HAPPY!

I'm not surprised the CT Silver BT's shot lousy...One thing you shouldn't do is mix coated bullets with non coated bullets...The Lubalux coating on them is at it's best when it is the only thing going thru the bore..just like moly (but it's not)

Get some Butches Bore Shine...and clean everything out real good...Lap the barrel with Flitz as per the FAQ's...and try them all by themselves...My 243 bull (now mitchell's) loves them...both the 95grainers and the 55 grainers...Both weights are loaded .003" off the lands...and produce some of the tightest groups you can imagine...

What everyone else has said is true...Handi's do shoot better off the hinge area...and having the barrel free floated

Mac

PartsMan · « **Reply #8 on:** February 27, 2007, 04:16:42 AM »

My brother has a bolt 243 that shoots 80 or 100s any brand all day long.
He wanted to shoot varments so tried 55g.
Never did find one that worked. Factory or reload.

Hunternz · « **Reply #9 on:** February 27, 2007, 08:07:44 AM »

I would be surprised if any H & R .243 will shoot factory 55gr loads well because of the long throat, I just headspaced my superlite with 65 gr vmax and the bullet is almost out of neck before it touchs the lands,
Regards Howard.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** February 27, 2007, 09:15:31 AM »

Mitchell's .243 Ultra sure shoots the 55gr CT Ballistic Silvertip extremely well!!

Tim

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,79053.msg488984.html#msg488984

sms1717 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 27, 2007, 12:01:28 PM »

Thanks for the input
I suspected shooting from a slightly elevated spot to prone had something to do with it. Also the rest changed as well, I will try the steady point rest on the picnic table as I did before with hotseat and see If I came make some sense of it. I want to use the rifle for coyotes so I suspect I should site it in, sitting on the ground with shooting stiks as this will be my probable position in the field. Right? repeatability would make sense. What kind of torque should I put on the foreend stock? I guess I'll fiddle around and see what happens. Should I use a dry lube on the ejector assembly?

Thanks, Again
PS I will check out the faq's.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #12 on:** February 27, 2007, 12:07:50 PM »

Boy now that is what I call a good group!!!!!!!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** February 27, 2007, 01:20:33 PM »

I torque the forend screw to 25 inch/pounds, but that's not so critical as just making it the same each time.

Dry lube on the ejector, make sure you clean the latch shelf after you lube the ejector, the shelf and latch should be clean and dry.

Tim

backstrap · « **Reply #14 on:** February 27, 2007, 05:20:34 PM »

U dont have to sight a rifle in the condition u are going to be hunting in like a set position sight your gun on a bench useing sand bags and get it dead on at a 100 yards and then when your in the feild useing the shooting sticks it will nail what ever you are shooting worked years for me least when u are shooting on a bench u can really get it dialed in when u are trying to sight a gun in useing shotting sticks u are more than likely going to be shacking a little bit and this could get the sight off just a little so sight it in useing a sold stable shooting platform and u will get every thing u shoot at unless u scare the critter or he is out of range,i sight all my guns from a bench useing sand bags and here about 2 weeks ago shot a big bobcat free hand with my H&R223 at a 80yards nailed her right in the sholder.

Hunternz · « **Reply #15 on:** February 27, 2007, 07:00:26 PM »

Hey Quick,
not saying that they can't shoot 55gr well with reloads ie Mitchells targets you posted but factory loads I don't think because of long throats in the H&R's,
Regards Howard

myarmor · « **Reply #16 on:** February 27, 2007, 07:22:41 PM »

Quote from: Mac11700 on February 26, 2007, 06:26:51 PM

Quote
Then tried 55gr winchester supreme ballistic tips they went every where at least a 6" spread, NOT HAPPY!

I'm not surprised the CT Silver BT's shot lousy...One thing you shouldn't do is mix coated bullets with non coated bullets...The Lubalux coating on them is at it's best when it is the only thing going thru the bore..just like moly (but it's not)

Get some Butches Bore Shine...and clean everything out real good...Lap the barrel with Flitz as per the FAQ's...and try them all by themselves...My 243 bull (now mitchell's) loves them...both the 95grainers and the 55 grainers...Both weights are loaded .003" off the lands...and produce some of the tightest groups you can imagine...

What everyone else has said is true...Handi's do shoot better off the hinge area...and having the barrel free floated

Mac

I agree with Mac. These ballistic tips are lot different, and from all that I have seen will shoot crap IF not shot through a clean bore... and in after shooting any other ammo
Great bullets, just try them by themselves after you clean the He!! out of a barrel and after a couple fouling shots, you will see what they can really deliver.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #17 on:** February 27, 2007, 07:38:11 PM »

sms1717, don't feel bad about not getting the 55gr loads to shoot good, I've tried 58gr factory and 65gr handloaded Vmaxs with no luck so far, but I haven't given up yet, the 55gr Ballistic Silvertips handloaded are next on my quest!!

Howard, after dealing with this relatively short throated 7mm-08 Handi, I'd rather deal with a longish throat!!

Mitchell's .243 accuracy doesn't seem to be hurt by the longish throat, it also shoots the Factory 95gr Ballistic Silvertips inside an inch, that's what Mac shot thru it before he sold it to Mitchell.

Tim

Mac11700 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 27, 2007, 08:13:51 PM »

Quick:

The throat isn't out of spec's for this paticular 243 barrel..

Here's what it would do with the 95 grain CT BST's...This was the #2 group of 4 that I shot as fast as I could load and shoot with in 3 minutes..

That's 3 shots on top...and 2 below..If I can find the target around here...I'll measure it for you..

Mac

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** February 27, 2007, 08:15:09 PM »

Spec?

What's a spec when it comes to throats!!

Mac11700 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 27, 2007, 08:29:55 PM »

The top 3 shots went into a .118" group...outside to outside measures .361".....opening up the group with the last 2 shot fired to to .537" with a outside to outside measurement of .780"

Mac

Hunternz · « **Reply #21 on:** February 27, 2007, 09:20:15 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on February 27, 2007, 07:38:11 PM

sms1717, don't feel bad about not getting the 55gr loads to shoot good, I've tried 58gr factory and 65gr handloaded Vmaxs with no luck so far, but I haven't given up yet, the 55gr Ballistic Silvertips handloaded are next on my quest!!

Howard, after dealing with this relatively short throated 7mm-08 Handi, I'd rather deal with a longish throat!! Mitchell's .243 accuracy doesn't seem to be hurt by the longish throat, it also shoots the Factory 95gr Ballistic Silvertips inside an inch, that's what Mac shot thru it before he sold it to Mitchell.

Tim

Quite right, as a handloader I would always prefer long throat especially on a single shot ie not having to worry about the magazine length, always able to get the best out of the cartridge especially with the heavier bullets in any given calibre, I can get the best out of my Superlite because I reload and get the bullet just of the lands, although with my rifle I would doubt if I could get 55gr bullets seated close enough to the lands to get optimal acuracy, I am going to try the 75 gr Vmaxs if I can't get the 65gr vmaxs to group three shots under an inch at 100yds. I think I will though

Regards Howard.