Thoughts about TC "CLASSIC"

[Darrell Davis]

:?     I have unloaded my thoughts about the TC "CLASSIC" under the heading "good .22 Auto for under $200.00," so I won't go into it all under this heading.   BUT-------, I am interested to hear the feeling of others who may own this rifle.

Bottom line of my feeling is a "CLASSIC" it AIN'T!!!!!!!!  I suppose I got what I paid for, but DID NOT get the rifle that TC spent big buck to advertise. :roll:

Comments???
  :cry:  :?      :eek:  :shock:  :cry:

[Graybeard]

Hmm. Very interesting. Guess I need to go look up that thread and read your comments.

I was slow to warm up to the gun and when I first saw the ads wasn't impressed. When I saw the first one in the store I was quite impressed. Haven't taken any action yet to get one but definitely have such plans. I'll read your comments to see why you now seem somewhat negative on it in this thread.

For some reason the more I look at it the more I like it. I've not heard any negatives from owners on it unless when I find your other thread it is there. Was hoping it is gonna be an apt successor to my Wheatherby Mark XXII I finally sold awhile back after many long years of good use.

GB

[DON IN VA]

 :-D
I just bought one of the Benchmark target versions off Auction Arms today.  Should get my hands on it one day next week.  If it shoots anything like an article I recently read about it I'll be sure to brag here some.  Now all foolishness aside it certainly doesn't look Classic but let's just hope it shoots well enough to overcome that part.

[Darrell Davis]

Don IN VA,

How about some more info on the "Benchmark Target" from Action Arms.

Is this a slicked up TC or what? I haven't heard of this one yet.

If it IS a "slicked up" TC, I can see how that might be OK IF -------?? :roll:

Thanks

[popplecop]

I've shot one for just about a year now and it is by far the most accurate out of the box semi auto I've seen.  Know a number of people shooting them and they are all well satisfied, all will do an .5 inch from the bench at 50 yds.  Trigger on mine is fine.  If I had a problem with one and was sure it was the rifle I would notify the manufacture and see what they have to say.  Drove squad cars for 30 years from differant makers and had to turn back 2 in the 60s, but the manufacturer made them right.  One was replaced with a new and the other one was made right and returned.  Give them a chance.

[DWARREN123]

I have one, the best .22 lr semi-auto I have owned or seen. The rifle shoots extremly well and (to me) looks good. The only thing is it must be cleaned every 500-750 rounds (depends on ammo) or because of tight chamber it starts having problems chambering and extraction. The only semi I would have!

[DON IN VA]

:-D Hey Darrel,
The two posts after your reply to my first say a lot don't ya think.  
Since I haven't actually received my own yet but have read about them, I thought I'd give you a link here to TC's site where you can go have a look see for yourself.  Like I said,  the Benchmark at least ain't Classic in appearance like it's predecessor but it ain't ugly either.  But if it shoots tiny holes at 50 yds., oughta make a nice handy squirrel gun huh?
       http://www.tcarms.com/22benchmark/index.html

[Darrell Davis]

:grin: WOW, the posts are great, finding out about a rifle I hadn't even heard about.

Stopped at one of the local sport shops to night to pick up some Barnes CR - 10 (Graybeards recommendation) and ask if anyone had heard about the TC Benchmark.

One fellow had. His friend has both a Classic and a Benchmark, both have reasonably good triggers. Both are better then the trigger of the Classic in stock at the shop. Both shoot much better then I have been able to get from my Classic up to this point.

Groups could be my scope(?), but the BAD!! trigger IS a TC problem! :cry:  

Was thinking about going with a CZ452 American or Varmit after this thing with my Classic is resolved. However, with the Benchmark in the picture it does make the decision a bit harder.

Will go back to the web site (thank you Don-in-VA) and look at the Benchmark again. Looked OK to me, but the 452 American looks real nice. :wink:

[Darrell Davis]

Up date of the TC Classic saga. Nothing new. The office personal must be busy back at TC.

Mailed the info to TC as suggested by Graybeard. Mailed on May 12th, hope to hear back soon!

Really don't like these kinds of situations, makes me wonder if the problem is me, the quality control people, the advertising folk, or the person with the big pencil watching the bottom line.

Oh well, did read a posting somewhere about a Kimber that would not shoot the mimi groups expected and had to be sent back. Now that I REALLY don't understand. The quality control person would be looking for another job if I was pulling the strings at a company called Kimber.

More info soon I HOPE! :roll:

[Darrell Davis]

Hey there folks,

Quick up date on the TC Classic saga.  Rec'd a letter from TC on 6/1/03 in which they say they are sorry about the problems and say I should send it back to be fixed.

I think I will test it for groups a bit more so that I have some fresh info to send in with the rifle.

Not sure yet of the out come, as I am beginning to wonder IF THEY CAN REALLY PRODUCE  on the "match" grade trigger.

Will proceed with the tests with a possible update before sending the rifle back to TC, IF anything interesting shows up.

Keep em coming!  :wink:

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

I had one---it was a horrible contraption that didn't live up to all the hype---I promptly dumped it and got most of my money back.

[Darrell Davis]

Hey there Omaha-BeenGlockin,

Had one, does that mean you had a TC (?) Classic(?) ?  The questions marks are for ?Classic?.

I am not sure about keeping the ?Classic? if I send it in to have whatever done that they might do.

The CZ sounds better and better and going in you know it will need trigger work. But the word is THEY SHOOT!

Not sure at this point just what to do???

Keep em coming! :wink:

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Yes---mine was a Classic-----a jamming POS is what it was. I figured with what I paid for it---it should work right the first time------so I just dumped it-----traded it back to the dealer I bought it from.

T/C has completely lost me as a customer---I'll NEVER consider buying one of their products again---but that's just me.

I've heard nothing but good things about CZ---but the couple I've seen in the store have been a little rough---so I'm not sure----------all-in-all probably a good buy----I've never owned one--so can't say for sure.

[Darrell Davis]

Hey there Omaha-BeenGlockin,

My thoughts while maybe not as bad about TC as yours, are really none to good at present. Having a hard time getting away from the feeling that I was taken. Even with the nice letter asking me to send it back to be fixed. FIXING IT AFTER THE FACT IS NOT THE POINT!

With the price of things now days, I probably got what I paid for. However my desire was for a .22 that was a cut above the rest and that was what TC was talking about in their ads. As I've already stated in another post, I did not get the rifle they were advertising!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

Now I am out of sorts because I don't have what I expected and because I must now take my time, effort and shipping money to send a defective product back to the company.

IF THEY ARE ADVERTISING THE LEVEL OF QUALITY THEY ARE CLAIMING, THEN EVERY RIFLE SHOULD PASS THE NEEDED TESTS  A N D  MEET THAT LEVEL  B E F O R E IT LEAVES THE FACTORY.  I would rather pay a bit more money up front then go through the pain in the neck problems that come with a product which does not meet the advertised standard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

I would really like a Kimber or Cooper BUT$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

I know it now, but where I really goofed was when I DIDN'T get a 77/22 rebarreled. I had already bedded, floated, and put ebony on the forend tip. Looked GOOD but just didn't shoot as well as I wanted. For about $200.00 I could have had a good barrel installed and probably had everything I wanted for groups, plus a rifle which worked.

More I think about it, the more I wonder if I even want to bother with shipping it back. :roll:

Keep em coming! :wink:

[jh45gun]

Yep I think it sucks that a person has to send a gun back to the company because they screwed up!!!! TC is not the only ones though they are all guilty of it one time or the other. My advice send it back to get fixed as if you trade it you will lose your back side on the deal I have already expirienced that deal with a couple of Ruger Single actions I should have sent back but was mad and traded them for a differnt gun. I would have been better off sending it back and having them fix the problem. You have money in it now so you have nothing to lose sending it back and telling them what you expect. Jim

[gunnut69]

I suppose everyone makes a mistake every once in a while. I have not owned a TC but don't have a great love for any autoloader. The 10/22 is pushed as a great rifle because you can buy so many aftermarket upgrades for it. Why do you have to upgrade? Why not buy a better rifle in the first place. The CZ's are great little 22's and will outshoot rifles costing a bunch more. The Varmit (read heavy barreled) version's accuracy is completely scary. They tend toward a single group with several types of ammo. Some that isn't even match grade. Since I haven't owned a TC I can't comment on their grouping but have seen a lot of them on the used gun racks at the local gunshops. Not many CZ's though. If TC is willing to fix your trigger problem I would think you'd be happy. Many companies would simply tell the trigger is within specs and they are very sorry. I have seen Ruger MKII triggers that buried my 8 pound pull guage! Ruger considers that just fine. I've never dealt with TC but they at least should be given the chance. I've read you posts and as you said several times yourself, you got what you paid for. Now they are offering to improve it free. Sorry, I am not trying to flame just a bit tired. I suppose everyone wants an target rifle at a plinker price but it doesn't happen very often. Also please understand, there is a reason one doesn't see autoloaders at the BR-50 matches-they don't shoot well enough to compete. The TC's I've seen looked fine and from hearsay seem to shoot well enough to hunt and plink with. Want more accuracy, buy a good bolt gun. The accuracy is much easier to acheive.

[Darrell Davis]

Hey there Gun nut69,

Thanks for the come back.

However, the point I have tried to make when I say I got what I paid for is,
I got taken when the quality of my TC is placed against THEIR ads.

For the price, my TC Classic is an OK .22 plinker, BUT again, at this point, it does not match up with the claims they make.  

In short, don't send something out the door and on to the buyer UNLESS it is up the claims the company is making for said product! The claim in their ad is for 1/2 inch groups at 50yds and a match quality trigger. THIS IS THEIR CLAIM, IN THEIR ADS AND THE CUSTOMER SHOULD EXPECT NOTHING LESS!!!!!!!!

I bought their product ONLY because of their claims.  I would have just as much of a problem with any other product which does not meet the claims of the company producing/selling it.

I am planning to shoot the 10 different .22 loadings again just as soon as I can get the right conditions. Am watching the wind conditions this evening, and IF they are as good 24 hours from now as they seem to be now, I will be at the bench shooting.

As to the CZ, sorry but I came to this forum too late to know about it BEFORE buying the TC. If I had known about it there is a very good possibility I would not be now working my through the TC saga. I have been checking on the availability/price and like what I hear.  However, with my budget (lack there of) it is first things first.

Keep em coming! :wink:

[Bullseye]

Just curious without trying to ruffle any feathers but I have followed this post since the beginning and have to ask this question.  I have a T/C Catolog and have been looking at their ads whenever I see one since reading this post.  None I have seen mention a "match quality trigger" or "1/2 groups at 50 yards".  Just curious where you saw this ad that prompted you to buy this gun.

[Darrell Davis]

Hey there Bullseye,

I do not have a new TC catalog, so do not know what is/is not in there,  but the ads I refer to are in some of the national shooting magazines.

Their, ads do state the claims as I have stated, and quoted in My letter to TC.

Glad to look some of them up for you if that would be of any help.

Keep em coming! :wink:

[eroyd]

I would love to own a target quality, hunter weight .22 rimfire semi-auto because I hate having to lower the rifle to crank the bolt when everything grip wise feels so right.
 I checked out the T/C sight and in my opinion it appears that their rifle is of superior quality to most. They do not specfically claim group sizes but do claim "superior accuracy", (to what?) and "out of the box shooter"(meaning?).
It's always best to get opinions on any merchandise from experienced people who are not trying to sell you something.

http://www.tcarms.com/tc22classic/index.html

[Darrell Davis]

Hey there Eroyd,

Sorry to disagree, BUT TC HAS RUN ADS IN WHICH THEY CLAIM 1/2INCH GROUPS AND A MATCH GRADE TRIGGER.

As I have already offered to Bullseye, I can provide you with copies of their ads in which they make just those claims.

As I also told Bullseye, I have also quoted that information back to TC. IT WAS QUOTED DIRECTLY FROM THEIR ADS.

TC is now making an upgrade of the "CLASSIC" which from what I hear IS producing the groups. The trigger I don't know about. You might look that way if you want a semi.

Keep em coming! :wink:

[eroyd]

Darrell, I don't disagree one bit. I just checked out there web site and I feel it implied that there rifles were superior. Since the printed adds you've seen actually claim 1/2 inch groups, you have all the right to expect at least close to that from one of their rifles. They should have to be pretty confident to make that claim and definately should back it.

If it turns out they do back this claim, I'd certainly consider purchasing one of T/C's rifles. Guess we'll see.

Cheers

[RKBAHolsters]

Darrell,

What size of groups are you getting with match grade ammo? or with what you are shooting?

I'm sure that they were not using 500rd bulk pack ammo to shoot 1/2" at 50 yards.  So this could be one of the problems you are having.

As far as, the trigger goes, if you aren't happy you should send it back to them.  Probably will cost $15 or less to send it priority mail.

This thread started May 10th, if you shipped it then, it would probably already be back in your hands....

Good luck and keep us updated.

Steve

[Darrell Davis]

Hey there eroyd and 480 Ruger as well as anyone else who may have been following this subject.

Last night was the night, quite warm, but the calmest conditions I have had for shooting in a long time,

The "classic" did group a bit better then it has before under the "normal" shooting conditions, but still no 1/2" groups.

BUT, THE "classic" DID JAM FIVE (5) TIMES DURING THE EVENING! This is by no means the first time it has jammed, so this is a thumb nail of that part of the evening. Shortly after starting my tests, (when rifle was the freshest/cleanest) it failed too compleatly chamber a round from the clip. A bit later it jammed twice when an empty failed to clear the port when ejecting and was caught by the mouth and slammed home by the returning bolt. Still later, it jammed twice more when a round, mid-way through a clip, was shoved forward by the returning bolt. Both times, it seemed as though the round did not begin to rise (nose first) towards the chamber as normal.  The bullets nose was smashed in to the forward edge of the clip in both cases, putting a deep crease in the lower half of the nose. Not happy!

As to groups, strange as it may seem, the CCI Blazer shoot very well, right on the heels of and sometimes better then the match stuff I used.  The 50 yard groups (all ten shots using two clips) shot the evening of 6/17/03 are as follows------------------------------------------------------------.

CCI Blazer ---- 1 1/4"  (8 shots into 19/32)
Winchester Super X  HP ---- 1 5/16"
Rem. Thunderbolt ---- 1 5/16"
Fed. Lightning ---- 1 1/4"
CCI Mini Mag HP ---- 1 5/8"  (9 shots into 11/16)
Fed. bulk HP ---- 2 1/16"
Rem. bulk Golden Bullet ---- 1 5/8"
Rem./Eley Target Rifle ---- 1 1/8
Rem./Eley Match Extra Plus ---- 1"
Rem./Eley Club Extra ---- 1 5/32"

The trigger is still the same as it was before, creep before let off, and were it not for the trigger stop I installed, gross over travel. Expect TC will not like the fact that I installed the stop behind the trigger, but if the unit had been what their ads claimed it wouldn't have been needed. OH WELL.

Now I am looking for a box suitable for shipping and back it goes for whatever outcome that will bring. If a new one comes back I expect to trade it NIB.

Have said enough, so no more on this subject until I post the outcome, whenever?

Keep em coming!  :wink:

[eroyd]

Good luck Darrell with T/C, we'll be watching to see if they come through.

 I'll hold off on buying one of those things for now I think. :wink:

I would expect a rifle guaranteed to shoot 1/2 inch groups would easily shoot 1 inch groups with most ammo. The real expensive stuff just isn't that much better. Fact is some really expensive rifles I know prefer the cheap stuff. Winchester Dynapoint from Walmart for example in a particular SAKO Finnfire will do 1.25" at 100 m's.

[rb in ar]

The 1/2" groups they talk about a probably 5 shot groups not 10. That said the accuracy listed with those brands of ammo is not impressive. Sometimes gun makers blow it. If this thing won't cut it send it back and be prepared to keep sending it back with angry letters and threats to sue if they don't fix it. Insist they shoot it and measure the groups also insist they make an ammo recommendation. They won't help you if you don't ask and you might have to ask very firmly.

On your end do what you reasonably can. Shoot in good conditions (as you've done). Use a good scope and try more than one if possible. 3X9 deer hunting scopes have the wrong parallax settings and can ruin groups. Shoot with a scope designed for rimfire use. Try any available ammunition not tried so far. Use a good sandbag, shotbag, rest, vise or whatever along with good shooting technique. If you have another rifle you can easily shoot under 1/2" your shooting is fine but if not make sure. If you've done your part then send it back NOW. The longer you wait the longer it will take to get it fixed

[Darrell Davis]

Hello there everyone,

Well, the "TC CLASSIC" is back from TC. They did make good time as the rifle was sent UPS about 6/25/03 and was returned to my door step on 7/16/03.

The information returned with the rifle indicates they replaced the "fire control, bolt, magazine". They also indicate, "test fired 6 types ammo OK".

In truth, with the feelings I have about this rifle I wish they would have sent a new "classic" or offered a chance to upgrade to the new and better(?) bench version. If they would have done so, I would have had better trade value then I have now.

As I have as yet to fire the returned rifle, I can't say how it is doing. I would say that the trigger STILL has creep and therefore still does not qualify for their claimed/advertised level of quality. The over travel is still at the minimum where everything will function, BECAUSE OF THE trigger stop I had installed. Replacing a magazine ?? --well thanks guys, but that does not sound good if (?) it really needed to be replaced, as the rifle just had not been shot enough to wear out a clip. Also, if the clip needed to be replaced, why didn't they ALSO replace the other clip I sent back to the factory?

I really do not know just what to do now. They didn't say anything about how it grouped.

My thoughts run between trying to come up with the bucks for a high quality scope just to see if that could bring the groups down and just dumping the THING as is. I really like the semi for plinking, BUT on the bases of the THOMPSON/CENTER advertisements I expected more then what I got. Not sure if I can ever live with something well below the claims made by the company.

One other thought in closing, I recently was over at Rimfire Central reading postings on the TC CLASSIC and noted a lot of love/hate postings. Seems you get a great one OR? With all the comments on the triggers, I think TC should be made to eat a lot of rifles or "fire control" units. I state this, not because of the price of the rifle, but TOTALLY because of what TC has advertised AND NOT PRODUCED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

Anyway, that is where my "TC CLASSIC" stands at this point. Been back to the factory, returned and a "CLASSIC" it wasn't and and NEVER will be!

Keep em coming! :wink:

[Graybeard]

Well in spite of your negative feelings toward yours I'll still be getting me one along toward the end of this year. Guess I'll see how it is gonna turn out when I get it.

GB

[TScottO]

I have one of these also. It's awful picky about ammo that it will feed and or shoot well. The trigger on mine is awful. I also find it hard to load the last round into the clips.

I was disapointed too.

Scott

[Darrell Davis]

Hello there Shooters,

I am bring this subject back to current listings for a final shot at what is thankfully an almost dead subject.

After I got the tc"classic" (note all small letters!) back from TC I held back from shooting it for quite awhile just because of the VERY bad feelings I held/hold for what was advertised as being something I would be passing on to my family. I short, it was no better when it was returned then when I sent it in. And this, after replacement of the trigger group, bolt and a clip by TC. No offer was made for a refund of my postage.

Well, I finally decided to put the scope back on the classic and take it to the range, but before I did I decided to float the barrel just in case this might help the groups. OPPS, the only thing that holds the action/barrel in line is the contact of the barrel with the wood of the barrel channel. If you don't want the action/barrel to flop around you will need to really tighten up the action screws or do as I did and glass the lugs, where the screws attach.

When I got ready to fire the classic, I loaded the first round from the clip as normal, fired and what do you know, a jam on the first cycle back from the factory. Surprise surprise, or been there and done that many times before!

During the course of the shooting which followed there was a failure to feed/chamber on a number of cycles from the clips. REMEMBER, THIS WAS FROM A RIFLE FRESH FROM THE FACTORY!

No word on groups from this shoot, as I never made it past the gongs. Have no idea if the groups improved, and really don't care! It could shoot 1 hole 10 shot groups at a 100yds. and still not be a keeper.

I am happy for those of you, LUCKY enough to get a good classic, However I did not.

I am 60 years old, have had/used firearms since my pre-teen years, and have never before been as dissatisfied as I am with this product. Even the worse ones were a far cry better then this extremely poor but highly advertised unit.

I will take it in the pocket book by dumping this thing, but will consider it money well spent and another payment rec'd every time I get to express my opinion on what has been a very bad experience.

Keep em coming! :wink: