bucks

[jhm]

I know the feeling we have a 3 point rule here and its in the 3rd year I believe . suppose to give the younger bucks a chanch to mature, it does make you be aware of what you are about to do.  I believe it has elimanated alot of the ( GROUND CHECKING ) of the bucks being shot, you should see some larger bucks if its followed after a couple years.   JIM :shock:

[savageT]

Darn,
Sure wish the DEC here in New York Central Region would do the same thing.  Can't find anything but little bitty yearlings runnin' through the woods with their Mommies by their side.  We need to save what young bucks we have and harvest the over-populated doe herd.  Get this thing under control for the future!  They're doing it for the wall-eyes in  Oneida Lake and a good winter or two would help.

savageT :!:

[coltfan]

I’m from southeast PA. We only need to have 3 points on one side for it to be a legal buck. I ‘m supporting the antler restrictions in the belief that it will help produce better bucks, but moreover it will improve the genetics of the entire herd. Still one other benefit will be the extra degree of safety that will come from the need for the hunters to positively identify the number of points before taking the shot. These new restrictions have made this past archery season pretty darn interesting. Had one deer come into sight with about 15 minutes of legal hunting hours left,  I could see that it was a definite Y on both sides, but diminishing light prevented me from positively determining if the third point would meet the 1” length requirement. Deer was 15 to 20 yards away and I still could not be sure. Shooting hours expired before I could be sure. Had another get within range only to find that one antler had been broken off and the other was a small spike. (Would have been a legal deer last year.)

The biggest problem I have found with the whole program, was the deceit  that the game commission used to get some hunters to buy into the program. The Game Commission preached that if there was a mistaken kill ( a non-legal antler restriction buck) they would only seek a $25.00 fine and the hunter would be required to give the antlers to the game commission. The hunter would still be able to keep the meat. Once the antler restrictions were passed, the penalty was listed in the hunting regulation book but stated that the hunter must provide the WCO (game officer or deputy) with a written report detailing the exact nature of the incident. The WCO would then make his determination as to weather it was a mistaken kill or not. If iIf the WCO decided it was a mistake, the $25.00 fine was applied, if not what he considers a mistake the fine was $500.00. Based on some posts I’ve seen on other web sites, it appears that a lot of hunters will just let mistake kills lay, or they might sneak them out after dark and butcher the deer themselves rather than risk an unfavorable decision by the WCO.

[jhm]

coltfan I see your point on the mistakes and Im sure we had them the first year and probably still do nothing is perfect but in the long run it may help the overall deer heard for the future.  here it got to the point if any sign of a horn was showing it was a dead deer, now you see several that have potential to be good racks again.  And those people that make those mistakes they sometimes are the ones always looking for the shortcut to success to cover their lack of ability.  JIM

[mkee]

most people i talk to in central alabama shoot just about whatever they see.  we have a 70 day season.  some counties are allowed two deer per day all season long. only one can be antlered. by the way gun season starts this weekend.  an antler limit would help alot, but i would also like to see hunters around her cull some does.  that's about all we see anymore.

[tripper]

several years ago they started a lottery system for doe permits in MN. and  put a 3in. min. on antlers.  now they have everyody so use to looking for some kind of  antler that to meny of the people getting permits wont shot the does and there are getting to be to meny does and some parts of the state is getting over populated. seemed to me we had more big bucks when there was a nine day season(it's 16 days now) and you shot anything you wanted.  the proublem i would have here with having to count points is most of my hunting is heavy cover and just spoting the antlers in the brush and picking a spot in front of the deer to get a clean shot before it disapears 20 yds. down the trail. i think for MN. the first step should be to make those that get doe permits shoot does rather then getting the permit just in case they don't see a buck.  just my two cents for MN>

[seanboy]

I hope it all works out.......But I think it was just to raise some money with the fines for the people that turn in their illegal racks. If you shoot one and then walk up to it and its missing one point...take it to a check station pay 25.00 they cut your horns off and away you go. NOT in a couple weeks some of you will get  up to a five hundred dollar fine in the mail. My 210 acres are now out of the game commision program. But like I said I hope it works out and we start seeing more big racks.

[DoubleA]

I think that the whole PA thing is about bringing money into the state.  Colorado has all those rules and stuff, and it's all about money.  In state tags are 35 dollars for Elk, and out of state people pay 350.  It's nice to get a big buck or elk, but there are lots of people that don't care about that, they want meat, and some feed there family off of the meat.  If you want a big buck in PA, just hunt somewhere that is remote, or on your own land.  

The elk population here in Colorado has gotten very large, so last year they were allowing extra tags and reduced out of state cost.  This year it is expected to be the same, and they are even going to allow a large increase in Either sex tags.  

I hunted in PA for many years, and there probably would have been many years that I would not have gotten a Buck if these restrictions were in place.  They should only make them for State Game lands only, that would still allow people to hunt on their own land, and even allow Private owners to make what ever rules they want, increasing the chance that they would be able to sell hunting packages to out of state folks, thus bringing the money into the state and allowing them to obtain an income from it.......  

PA has done a great job from my understanding managing the wildlife over the past two decades, hopefully this won't change that but one question I have for them is.....

Are you managing wildlife for PA residents or are you managing it to make money and allow rich out of state folks an opportunity to bag a 'BIG BUCK'??

[seanboy]

  You go boy!!!! Where are you when we all have the sportsman meetings around here? :-D  The PA game commision is one of the biggest jokes to the deer and the other wildlife here in PA. I know we need something to keep people honest but I think we need a revamp of our thinking... :twisted:  :twisted:

[huntsman]

To anyone who thinks that restricting antlers by points is a good way to improve the genetics or age structure of a deer herd, I give you this scenario:

Bing = a 1.5 year-old buck with modest genetics and a 2x3 rack.
Bang = a 1.5 year-old buck with poor genetics and a 1x1 rack.
Bong = a 1.5 year-old buck with excellent genetics and a 4x4 rack.
Smack = a 3.5 year-old dandy buck with 10 points and a 22" spread.

Deer season comes along with a 4-point on one side antler restriction. Which deer gets killed? Bong goes down early. Smack doesn't last much longer in the face of hunters with unfilled tags hunting harder and longer, and PASSING UP INFERIOR bucks. Pretty good deer year.

One year passes. Bing and Bang have spread their DNA throughout the fawn crop because they got the better part of the rut to breed in. Bing is now a pretty 4x3 and Bang is now a cull 3x3. None of the 1.5 year-olds have 4 points on a side yet (because they inherited inferior antler genes from Bing and Bang).

Deer season comes along with a 4-point on one side antler restriction. Bang cannot be culled because he is only 3x3. The only deer taken this year is Bing with his pretty 4x3. Bang and the 1.5 y-o inferiors (mostly spikes and forkhorns) do 90% of the breeding. Fair deer year.

The next year 80% of the bucks have inferior genetics (because inferior genetics are protected by law). Bang is now finally a 4x4, but with short main beams and tines. Most of the bucks are now spikes due to a combination of inferior genetics being favored by the harvest criteria and an excess number of bucks per land area reducing the nutrition quality as well.

Deer season comes and Bang is now a baggable buck, although he isn't very pretty. He is taken nonetheless by a meat hunter, along with the only other deer having 4 points on a side--a 1.5 y-o with superior genetics that grew a dandy little 4x4 rack despite the low nutrition quality. He is now gone from the breeding pool as well. Less than desirable deer year.

Do I need to go any further? POINT RESTRICTIONS DO NOT IMPROVE THE QUALITY OR GENETICS OF A DEER HERD. Only quality age-and-sex criterion management with stable nutrition will do the job. Don't let anyone blow any other flavor smoke into any of your private orifices! :x