8x57 black bear and hog load

[Mr. Joe]

How do you all think the 150gr. hornady spire point pushed at roughly 3050 fps out of a 8x57 should work for large black bears and avg. hogs?  Im worried about not getting enough penetration, but this is my most acurate load and i would hate to not use it!

[Mikey]

Mr. Joe:  I'd worry aboout not getting enough penetration with that load.  Neither of those two critters you mentioned would find too much favor with that load - it may not penetrate far enough to put them down fast enough.  I would use a heavier load.  I would go for at least 185 gn but definately recommend 195/200 gn. 

You didn't mention how it came to be that your 150 gn load is the most accurate.  Your 8mm doesn't like the heavier european loads?? (Serious question).  From my perspective, a 150 gn .323 bullet is sort of like a 135 gn .308 bullet - not your best choice for hard game where deep penetration or through and through shots are required to bust bone and course on through major vitals.  In fact, I wouldn't recommend that light a bullet in the 8mm for those critters.

I have found some of my 8mms love the Sellier and Bellot 196 gn Cutted Edge Soft Point.  The nicest 8mm sporting rifle I have doesn't, but it does like the spitzer boattail design, so I loaded both some Nosler Accubond 200 gn BTSP and some 195 gn Hornaday SPs over some VihtaVuori N140 and got one hole groups at 100 m with both loads.  I would use either for black bear or hog and I think I will use that on my next hog hunt. 

Since ya handload, you may wish to try some heavier loads.  HTH.  Mikey.

[Mr. Joe]

In reality, i have only tried three weights in this particular gun.  Its a remington 700 and i havnt had it that long.  Im currently looking for some 185gr. load data.  I guess ill go with those as a good all arounder.  Thanks for the help.

[Drilling Man]

From my perspective, a 150 gn .323 bullet is sort of like a 135 gn .308 bullet - not your best choice for hard game where deep penetration or through and through shots are required to bust bone and course on through major vitals.  In fact, I wouldn't recommend that light a bullet in the 8mm for those critters.

  I agree....

  My load for everything in the 8x57 is the 200NP...  I can tell you without question that it will work VERY good on everything up to and includeing moose!  It WILL expand well on the smaller animials too..
  DM

[handirifle]

I think you're overlooking one of thedistinct advantages of the 8mm round, and that is the ability to sling heavy bullets at enough velocity to get the job done.  One big reason I switched my 30-06 to a 338-06.

I'd sure try the 180-200gr bullets as well before going hunting with it.  If the 150 was a Barnes solid or MRX or similar you'd do ok, but I still think it would be a better deer bullet than hog or bear.

A std cup and core in 190 or 200 would really put down a hog or bear faster than a lighter weight 150, at least in my opinion.

[kombi1976]

Handirifle is right.
I'm personally chasing a good load with the Hornady 150gn SPs but it's because most of my shooting is small to medium game like hares, foxes and roos along with the odd goat.
If bear and hogs are you goal go for a heavier bullet.
There are plenty of good ones out there and you don't have to spend a mint.
A Sierra GameKing or Hornady Interlock will be just as effective.

[Blammer]

for black bear I'd feel more comfy with either a 196, or 200 gr bullet or at the very least 175.

[Mr. Joe]

Ive decided on the 200 gr. acubond nosler at 2703 fps.  Im going to do some more accuracy testing with the load but it looks very promising to say the least.  Nosler actualy said it was the most acurate load they tested, i cant go that far, but its been *good*

[Masterblaster1]

I am also looking for a black bear load for my 8mm. Does anyone have any good load recipes for bullets 180-220 grains? My current load is 150 grain hornady spire point at about 2700 fps but i feel that might be a little lite.

[Mikey]

Masterblaster 1:  I use 46 gns of VihtaVuori Oy N140 under a Haornaday 195 gn soft point or a Nosler Accubond 200 gn spire point boat tail.  Both bullets group under 1" in my rifle with that load.  The velocity is 2500'/sec with a 200 gn slug.  Now theres a bear load for ya, and it's under max.  Mikey.

[coyotejoe]

We gun buffs all like to see tight groups but sometimes that is not the best basis for selecting a hunting load. For a long range gopher Popper you need the very best accuracy you can get, but realistically, black bear and hogs are commonly shot at rather close range, offhand shots and anything that goes into 3 MOA is probably better than needed. Many folks hunt with .44mag carbines that won't hold an honest 6 MOA. I don't favor that but actually the difference between 1 MOA and 3 MOA will probably never be noticed in the field. I'd choose the load with best terminal performance over one which groups a tiny bit better.

[Mr. Joe]

200gr. nosler acubond over 52 gr. IMR4350...2703fps on avg.  Probaly better for bears of the brown or white persuasion, but should equaly impress their black cousins.

Start at 48 and work up.  This is a max load and is compresed!

[USMC0332]

I have a couple of good 8x57 loads that work for me. I carefully worked them up. They are fired in a sporterized Mauser with the barrel shortened to 21 inches. They are pretty hot so use safe process. My preferred load is 200grn Speer softpoints with 47grn of H4895, S&B brass, CCI 200 primer, 2.85 OAL. The Sierra 175grn with 51grn of H4895 shoots accurately to the same POI as the 200grn @ 100 yds. I also shoot 170grn Hornady RN with 51grn of H4895, 1 inch higher POI@ 100yards. I tried some loads with RL15 and Varget and had less success with them. I had spacious groups with a variety of loadings with 180grn Nosler BT bullets. It was the bullet I wanted to shoot, but my groups were about 2 1/2 inches at 100, and around 4 inches at 225. I know they were probably accurate enough, but I had better luck with the other bullets. Another powder may have done the trick, but I like the 200grn Speer best. I shot a whitetail doe at about 75yards and dropped her with a hasty spine shot. The wound was about 3 inches at exit, but I did hit the spine. I shoot paper way better than I shoot game. I get shook up . I guess in field conditions on moving game I do OK. I also finished a 130 pound button buck off for my daughter with a 170grn Hornady from 40 yds. It was laying down. I hit it in the jaw, and the bullet passed all the way through until it hit the hip bone, then it flipped over completely on its back. I should have used her Savage 340 .30-30. It was messy. I was surprised to see that with both of these dramatic kills there was no bloodshot meat. The only meat wasted was what was shot away. My Mosin-Nagant with Silver Bear 200grn softpoints, or .30/06 with 150 grn bullets both made much more of a mess of the meat. Sorry for being so long winded, but I did spend a lot of time working on 8x57 this summer/fall. I probably shot 400 rounds and it was my first effort reloading. I love the round and the rifle. Now I need a new rifle to work up loads with.

[Mr. Joe]

Im very interested to know what kind of velocitys you are getting with the 175 and 200 grain loads.  The H4895 seems to be the most acurate powder for me and i would love some heavy bullet recepies that call for it.

[Blammer]

I wish I could get 2800 fps out of my 200 gr nosler load with IMR4350, all I get is 2500...

[USMC0332]

I don't have a chronograph. Sure would be fun though. I wonder if there is a velocity threshold as to where meat is bloodshot, or not.

[jro45]

I killed my Black Bear with my 300 RUM shooting 200 gr Nosler Partition right thru the heart.

[kombi1976]

I killed my Black Bear with my 300 RUM shooting 200 gr Nosler Partition right thru the heart.

Ummmm.....thanks.
I'll sleep better at night knowing that.
Did you mean to post on the "300 RUM black bear and hog load" thread perhaps?   

USMC0332, if you can borrow a chronograph go for it.
It drastically changed my basis for trajectory on one rifle in particular.

[Drilling Man]

Did you mean to post on the "300 RUM black bear and hog load" thread perhaps?   

  HA HA HA I think he was just happy that he got one!!

  Well, i remember one i shot with my 8x57jrs that i stalked, from more than 1/2 mile away to within about 30 feet of it, and i let it have it...  NO kidding 30 feet!  It just happen to be in a place i could do that.  I never was much for shooting into the next county to get something anyway...

  I guess at that distance it didn't matter if the 200 NP was going 2200 or 2800...  ha ha ha

  DM

[Don Fischer]

I don't have a chronograph. Sure would be fun though. I wonder if there is a velocity threshold as to where meat is bloodshot, or not.

One of the thing's that's a negative about cronograph's is that you spend more time worrying about the velocity you think you need and less on the load you really need.

[kombi1976]

Did you mean to post on the "300 RUM black bear and hog load" thread perhaps?   

  HA HA HA I think he was just happy that he got one!!

Sorry, that was really a little more sarcastic than I meant it to be.
Next thing you'll be thinking I'm a nasty troll from Down Under!!
I wish I had the opportunity at black bears you guys get.
I be proud too.
But I mean, for pete's sake, it wasn't as if he even linked a comparison of the bullets!  
I certainly don't post about my 25-20 when guys are talking about 257 Wby Mags......the 257 punches out bullets at double the speed of my neat little piece; there's no comparison.  

Well, i remember one i shot with my 8x57jrs that i stalked, from more than 1/2 mile away to within about 30 feet of it, and i let it have it...  NO kidding 30 feet!  It just happen to be in a place i could do that.  I never was much for shooting into the next county to get something anyway...
I guess at that distance it didn't matter if the 200 NP was going 2200 or 2800...  ha ha ha

If the only game you can locate is 400yds away and isn't going to ever be closer then long range rifles have their place.
But a couple of Canadian guys I know have a saying........."The best sort of bear to shoot is one close to the road!"
The further away it is when you shoot it, the further you have to trudge to get to it.
Even an animal the size of an adult black bear can disappear into the undergrowth once it died form the "bang-flop" kill your super magnum delivered.
Then you have to carry it out!
Nope, let it be close.

[kombi1976]

I don't have a chronograph. Sure would be fun though. I wonder if there is a velocity threshold as to where meat is bloodshot, or not.

One of the thing's that's a negative about cronograph's is that you spend more time worrying about the velocity you think you need and less on the load you really need.

See, that's where I actually don't really see the chrony as serving it's purpose.
Instead you should be using the data received to ascertain uniformity in your reloading and also to confirm on a MV figure you can use to accurately calculate the trajectory and energy of the load.
If the difference between the MV velocity you are chasing and the one obtained is in are of 50 to 100fps you are probably safe if it's a tad slow and perhaps the chrony can be an aid to determine how much more you need to an increase a load.
But that should not be the main purpose.
If you must increase velocity by considerable degrees then a more powerful cartridge has to be the answer.
And when a cartridge, like the 8x57 for instance, is already an efficient and capable performer trying to extract extreme results from it is a little unnecessary.

[Drilling Man]

One of the thing's that's a negative about cronograph's is that you spend more time worrying about the velocity you think you need and less on the load you really need.

  I've owned a chronograph of one brand or another since the 70's...  I think your statement should read that maybe "YOU" would spend more time worrying about the "velocity" because i sure as heck don't nor ever did.

  I find them to be a very useful "tool" and they helped me to figure out where my loads were when i was developing widlcats and working up loads for them.  Like any other tool, it can be used or misused!

  After fireing many thousands of rounds over chronographs, i find it hard to believe some of the velocities i read guys quoteing on line anyway.  308 Win. loads that are as fast or faster than 06 loads??  How about those .338-06 loads that are as fast as .338 Win. mag.?? 

  Someone better check their screen spacing on their chrono...   

  DM

[jro45]

I killed my Black Bear with my 300 RUM shooting 200 gr Nosler Partition right thru the heart.

Ummmm.....thanks.
I'll sleep better at night knowing that.
Did you mean to post on the "300 RUM black bear and hog load" thread perhaps?   

USMC0332, if you can borrow a chronograph go for it.
It drastically changed my basis for trajectory on one rifle in particular.




I'm happy you'll sleep better. Yes, that load could be used for a Hog, but the conversation isn't about that caliber
is it

[kombi1976]

I'm happy you'll sleep better. Yes, that load could be used for a Hog, but the conversation isn't about that caliber
is it

You're right.
It's not about 300 RUM, it's about 8x57.
Bit of a difference in performance.

[stolivar]

Black bears are easy to kill. a 150 grainer will do it easily. Hogs are not that hard to kill either. A lot of people do it with an SKS all the time.


steve

[beemanbeme]

I've read this entire post hoping you'd tell us how you got 3050fps with a 150 out of a 8x57??

[handirifle]

  How about those .338-06 loads that are as fast as .338 Win. mag.?? 

  Someone better check their screen spacing on their chrono...   

  DM

If you're talking about mine, see my latest thread on the 338-06 project.  The chrono WAS NOT opened all the way before, at least that's my theory.  Cause they were much more in line with the books this time out.  I DO get the same or very similar velocities, for the same weight bullet as the 300 WM though.  Getting 2900-3000fps with a 180gr bullet.  Well above 30-06 and right in the middle of the 300WM territory, but NOT in the 338WM level.

That aside, the chrono is a VERY useful tool, when used properly.

[kombi1976]

I've read this entire post hoping you'd tell us how you got 3050fps with a 150 out of a 8x57??

Ditto.
Anyone care to comment on this?

[Drilling Man]

  The same way my brother gets 18 to 20 mpg on his pickups, no matter the brand, engine or if it's 4wd, 1/2 or 3/4 ton or whatever!!  Everyone he's ever had would do it!!

  DM