Beeswax & Rifled Projectiles

[CrufflerSteve]

I've been passing the winter getting ready for shooting my 2.25" Mountain Rifle.

A couple of days ago I had a conversation with someone who's been to the Grayling shoot several times.

He mentioned that Read projectiles seem to be the most popular and that the shooters fill the base with beeswax. He thought it was solid beeswax and not the crisco mix favored by cap & ball pistol shooters.

I'm going to digress for a moment. The Read projectile was a popular rifled cannon round of the Civil War. It was cast iron and often hollow to be filled with powder and balls. The early Read-Parrot projectiles had an iron sabot cast into the base. It would supposedly expand. I guess this didn't work so well since the later ones had sabots shaped like shallow cups attached to the bottom. They were made of brass and copper. Perhaps lead?

The modern ones seem to have zinc bodies with a brass or lead sabot bolted on. I've also heard of aluminum and other bodies.

I just wondered what effect the beeswax would have. I'd think it would melt instantly under the heat and pressure to help expand the sabot wall into the rifling. It would probably also help with lubing. Would it be liquid or gas within the barrel? With my 3 groove deep sawtooth rifling, there was no way to count on a complete seal, only enough to force some material into the rifling. Any thoughts how this would contribute to pressure?

I've been casting lead Minie balls to try out. I might end up with Read projectiles one day but casting a 4 pound plus lead round is enough challenge right now. I have two sorts. The heavy, long range ones have a very thick skirt and the opening in the base isn't that large. They might work well. My light ones might not work so well filled with beeswax. They have a huge opening and are meant for lighter loads. If beeswax worked too well, I'd risk blowing the skirts off. Perhaps not completely filling with beeswax would be the way to go.

When I've shot before I've had a filler in the aluminum foil charge. The powder is at the bottom with a cotton wad ovet the BP then a couple of ounces of grits. This was suggested by the cannon builder to help with the lead rounds. It reduced leading and helped expansion. With beeswax I might not need the filler. I'm also thinking of backing off the loads with the light ball. The suggested load was 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 ounces. My lower limit is close to 2 ounces with the vent.

Any thoughts about the effects of beeswax in this environment?

I plan to have some just lubed and some with varying levels of beeswax fillerwhen I finally make it to the range.

Steve

[jeeper1]

When I used to cast pistol and rifle bullets I used a beeswax/alox mix as a lube in the grooves where did double duty as a lube to reduce leading and a powder residue softener for easier cleaning. I don't see how it would do anything on the base of a projectile on a cannon. It would seem logical to apply it to the sides rather than the rear. Placed on the rear it would likely do little more than leave a smoke trail while in flight.

[GGaskill]

It might deposit some wax in the barrel for the following shot; can't see how it would help its own shot much.  If you are having problems with the skirt engaging the rifling sufficiently, I think the skirt should be made thinner.  I finally bored some of my 30 mm Minie balls to get the skirts thinner and they worked much better.  I think you run little risk of blowing the skirts with a light load.  Even with the heavy loads, I would thin the skirts until they fail, then make them a little thicker.  The pressure at the muzzle will be pretty low and that is where the skirts will fail if they are going to.

[guardsgunner]

CrufflerSteve ,
   I am shooting a lead Read type hollow based projectile, filled with beeswax. The beeswax does not belt at all (fairly high temp anyway). Phot of the base of a recovered projectile showing wax still intact.
 


The wax acts much like the base plug used in the minie ball base of the Enfeild rifle. Plug moves forward to expand the projectile into the rifling. This projectile has a very deep hollow base. See how the lower band has expanded entirly into the rifling.



Fired from a fullsize 1.5 Ellsworth gun with 3oz. 1 f,  Projectile wt. 1 lb 5 oz.

[CrufflerSteve]

Thanks guardgunner. I was wondering what the effect of the beeswax would be while in the barrel. From your picture its somwhere between a soft solid and a liquid during firing. That would help push the lead into the rifling.

I was worried about George's point. If the beeswax coated the bore, it would be a pain to clean and a nightmare with wax over BP fouling.

From your experience, it seems like beeswax might be very useful.

Do you have a picture of one of your projeciles unfired & unwaxed?

Steve

[Rickk]

Parafin melts at a higher temp than bee's wax.

The most popular muzzleloading wad formula is 2 parts parafin, 2 parts mutton tallow, and one part bee's wax.

It is some magical combination that has survived a hundred years of use and apparently is still considered one of the best formulas.

Mutton Tallow can be gotten from Dixie Gun Works. It smells pretty intense... avoid the kitchen stove for making the concoction unless you are single (even then, outside would be better!).

[guardsgunner]

CrufflerSteve ,
   Nope,anint got one...But ... I do have one of prepared cartridges. The hollow base goes all the wat to the upper band.



Rick is right, any hard wax will do for this purpose.

There are 1/2 a million lude fomrulas and somebody likes each and every one of them. I dont know anyone using parafin in their ML. Beeswax and crico,bw and Mobil ! , bw, olive oil and graghite powder are some I use.

Bob

[Artilleryman]

When I shoot at Grayling I use beeswax and crisco (about a 50-50 mix) to fill the brass sabot.  This mix is a little stiffer than what I use for my small arm shooting. 

[totallycustom]

Those are some amazing projectiles, I would love to know more about them, their cannon and usage.  I want a gun that shoots something like that.  Please tell us more.  Is that copper powder cartridge reusable? I am just in awe.

-TC-

[Rickk]

While we are talking about wax, I thought I would mention that I found both Paraffin and Beeswax recently on E-Bay and both sellers have more to sell. I thought the prices were pretty good (but I'm sure someone will tell me where they can get it for half that...feel free to do so and I'll shop there next time :-) .

Anyway, if you are looking for bulk paraffin or beeswax:

Beeswax about $3 a pound (depending on quantity ordered ) plus shipping  http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZhoneychaserQQhtZ-1

Paraffin 50# for $40 plus shipping  http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwooden-dryer-manQQhtZ-1 

These are ebay sellers, so if you find this link months from now, well... maybe it will be there and maybe it won't


Also, if you like to add Mutton Tallow (a classic BP lube additive) , there is only one practical source I have found to date - http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=3686. I bought 3 containers recently... they say 12 to 16 ounces per container... mine all ran about 13 ounces each

[guardsgunner]

Totallycustom,
 those cartridges and projectiles belong to a civil war infantry gun call and Ellsworth's gun. Try this link for more information.         http://www.nwtskirmisher.com/useful-extra4.shtml     and this link for history of the gun.             http://www.nwtskirmisher.com/useful-extra5.shtml

The copper cartridges (1.5 copper pipe with freeze plug) hold up very well. Ours have been shot over 10 each times without failure.
The original cartridges were brass but were one shot only.

[Double D]

Beeswax
Dadant Beekeeping Supplies - http://www.dadant.com/catalog
 
Stakich Inc. - http://www.stakich.com/bfolder/beeswax1.htm?src=overture&OVRAW=beeswax&OVKEY=bee%20wax&OVMTC=standard
 

[Max Caliber]

A good source of wax that should work well is the wax rings used to set toilet bowls. It is a little softer than beeswax but can be hardened by the addition of beeswax- mix the two in a double boiler or simply a tin can in a pot of hot water. You get a lot of wax for a buck or less, much cheaper than bees wax.

[Rickk]

Accordiing to what I have been reading on the BP forums, toliet seal wax used to be Beeswax, but it is now changing to some sort of synthetic wax. What used to work may not work, and the stuff may be different from different manufacturers. If you can find a toliet seal wax that works, stick with that brand and make sure it looks the same as previous batches.

[Rickk]

The beeswax arrived yesterday..

The Post Office tried to stuff 50 # of paraffin into my post office box (with little luck) today.

I already had a few pounds of sheep tallow in the fridge.

I mixed up some BP bullet lube... filled my cast-iron lead-melting frying pan with lube formula (holds about 5# total mixture....

I rummaged thru the trash bin looking for empty cat food cans and tuna fish cans to fill up....  I filled 20 of them

I lubed 500 12 G fiber wads with the stuff...

I am looking at about 10 square feet of 1/8 inch felt that needs punching and lubing for my 44 cal remington and Ruger BP revolvers.

I now have enough wax to last forever, no matter what I decide I need it for.

O Ya, and the house smells like Mutton Tallow (again). The complaint department is active this evening.

[GGaskill]

Why didn't you use your Coleman stove (outdoors) ?   

[Rickk]

I did... however, it is actually hot all of a sudden. It snowed three days ago, it was 80 here yesterday. The stove is near the back door, which was open except for the screen door... smell drifted inside... like I was supposed to think of everything

Anyway, it is morning now and either the smell is gone or I am used to it... all is fine again