Premium bullets - too expensive?

[Grumulkin]

At the rediculous price the MRX bullets are going for, I doubt I'll ever use them.  A buck apiece for a .308 caliber bullet offends my common sense.  If you want a target bullet, you can get very accurate bullets for much less.  If you want hunting bullets, anything made out of lead and/or copper will do the job much more cheaply.

I do use Barnes Triple Shocks, solids and XLCs.  I've found them to be very accurage when seated a bit further off the lands than other bullets and when pushed near maximum velocities.  Their performance on game is also excellent.  Yea, I know, they're expensive to.

[Redhawk1]

Barnes bullets are not the only expensive bullets out there. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy them. But if someone wants to get feed back from anyone that is trying them, why does he have to read through all the "Why" would anyone want to spend that much on Barnes bullets.  We all know Barnes bullets are expensive, I just don't know why we have to hear it in every discussion we have about Barnes bullets. 

I did not recall in his post that he wanted to know about other bullets.

"If you want a target bullet, you can get very accurate bullets for much less.  If you want hunting bullets, anything made out of lead and/or copper will do the job much more cheaply."

[billy_56081]

  I've had some friends thathave used the 160 grain Triple shocks on mulies and elk with great success. The 160s mighta been a little heavy for antilope. But it seems he's in the freaser so all is well. As far as cost. Why go cheep on the most important part of your hunt? I spend lots of money developing a load for hunting. I want to hunt with the best and most accurate ammo i can have. Its very reassuring when you have ammo you know will perform. I have yet to try the MRX but will soon.

[Coyote Hunter]

At the rediculous price the MRX bullets are going for, I doubt I'll ever use them.  A buck apiece for a .308 caliber bullet offends my common sense.  If you want a target bullet, you can get very accurate bullets for much less.  If you want hunting bullets, anything made out of lead and/or copper will do the job much more cheaply.

I do use Barnes Triple Shocks, solids and XLCs.  I've found them to be very accurage when seated a bit further off the lands than other bullets and when pushed near maximum velocities.  Their performance on game is also excellent.  Yea, I know, they're expensive to.

Your implicit question about the cost of bullets is a valid one, and one that every shooter must determine for themselves – whether they handload or simply shoot factory loads.

There is no question that accurate target bullets can be had for much less than premium hunting bullets. For the .30 caliber bolt guns I tend to favor the Hornady 168g A-MAX, which run me about $0.22 each.  I also shoot a fair amount of Speer and Hornady BTHP’s in the same weight (165/168g), purchased in bulk for even less. 

For the antelope, deer and elk my hunting loads are designed for, I like bullets that are reasonably accurate, expand reliably, hold together and penetrate deeply – preferably with an exit.  Absolute accuracy and cost are secondary issues.

You call “a buck apiece” a “ridiculous price” for the MRX and, by implication, other premium bullets.  Let’s compare that cost to factory ammunition.  Midway sells Remington 165g Core-Lokt .30-06 ammo for $20.49 a box.  Doing the math, that comes up to about $1.02 per cartridge. (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=208588)  By contrast, they sell 165g MRX for $25.99.  In my handloads, that equates to about $1.46 per loaded cartridge, or about $0.44 more than Remington Core-Lokt loads.  On a typical hunt I will take one shot per animal, sometimes two if a finisher is needed to hasten along the inevitable.  That means that in the field I can shoot super premium ammo for less than $1 more than cheap factory hunting ammo would cost.

Is that $1 really important?  Not to me.  Even the extra cost of load development and pre-hunt practice is unimportant in the greater scheme of things.  After several years of hunting I might save enough to buy a cheap glass of wine with my dinner and after a lifetime of hunting I might save enough to retire 10 seconds earlier.  I have a 1997 4x4 diesel F250 and a camping trailer that are essentially dedicated for my hunting activities.  It is not uncommon for me to spend upwards of $1500 a year in repairs, general maintenance, tires, insurance and license plates for these vehicles.  We built a barn to protect our investment in the truck and trailer when they are not in use.  Then there are the other costs of hunting – licenses, food, fuel, etc., which easily run $300-$400 a year even though I am a resident hunter.  And let’s not forget emergency repairs while on the hunting trip, which ran over $2000 a couple years back. 

My first elk fell to a Hornady 162g BTSP fired from my 7mm Rem Mag.  Although the elk died, the bullet failed miserably.  The following year I switched to Grand Slams and used them for over 20 years before I recovered one.  That bullet convinced me to step up to true premium bullets.  These days I use North Fork bullets whenever I can.  Second choice is A-Frame, Trophy Bonded and TSX.  If the new MRX bullets work out, I’ll replace the TSX bullets with MRX where possible.  Even my Marlin .45-70 gets North Fork bullets and the Marlin .30-30 gets Nosler Partition RN’s. 

My one experience with Barnes XLC’s involved an very unfortunate buck antelope who suffered needlessly with two shots through the lungs.  A third shot took its heart and ended its misery, but that was after I spent working my way around a hill for a closer shot.  Lingering concerns about the very similar TSX have convinced me that the MRX is the way to go.  I don’t mind spending a little extra for peace of mind.

By the way, a large number of people who complain about the cost of premium bullets have no problem laying down good money for cigarettes.  I suggest they would be FAR better off shooting the premium bullets and forgoing the cancer sticks.

That's my opinion, for what it is worth.

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

      Well I have never brought any Barnes bullets and seriously doubt I ever will. Simply put they arenot required for my hunting and their cost yes that agin is ridiculasly high. Forget your $1 per bullet  try somewhere about double that. I could not find a advert with the ost of barns bullets and in fact don't know who stocks them but for comarison the .270 Nosler partition 150 Grn  bullets cost £32.9  ($59.22 US) per box, powder is $57.60 US per 1lb can in most cases. I worked out to handload 100 rounds using IMR 4831 and 150 Gnr Nosler Partitions using CCI primers would cost around $191 US.

    Should I ever get the chance to hunt Elk ten I will buy a box or two of factory amunition using a suitable bullet and see how they shoot in my chosen rifle. It would be cheaper to do this with a few brands of ammo than buy the componants and develop and handload.

     Sure the cost of the ammo is still cheaper than the flights and tag but .................................................. BUT that does not mean that those Bullets SHOULD cost that much. It's got so expensive now that I cannot shoot as much as I once did and would like.

    Another thing which has put me off Barns bullets is the reports of heavy fouling and poor accuracy  I am certainly not going to waste money only to find out that the bullets are unusable in my rifle, why do that when I can use other suitable bullets  .

[Redhawk1]

Coyote Hunter, I really enjoyed your post.  I really don't see why others are so concerned what other pay for bullets.  If we used that same knowledge in cars, we would all be driving VW bugs. It all comes down to personal choice. No one is forced to buy them, they will sit on the gun stores shelf tell someone picks them up. By choice not being forced to do so. So I see is as a non issue. You don't want to buy them, then don't.

[Redhawk1]

    Another thing which has put me off Barns bullets is the reports of heavy fouling and poor accuracy  I am certainly not going to waste money only to find out that the bullets are unusable in my rifle, why do that when I can use other suitable bullets  .

You need to come shoot my guns sometime. I use Barnes bullets in my 243, 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 300 Rum, 338 Win Mag and 416 Rigby. My accuracy is MOA to sub MOA in all of my guns. I don't get any more fouling than I did out of standard jacketed bullets.

I am talking about my actual experience , not what I read.

[Brithunter]

Hmmm Redhawk,

      Now if you were not so darned far away I woudl take you up on that offer  as it is I have one .270 which is prone to fouling, tight bore I think as it's harder to push the brush and patch through that one . Now back to premiuom bullets  here in the UK the largest Deer I am likely to coma across is a Large Fallow Buck, say 140 lbs, a premium bullet is NOT required. Now unless I get extremely lucky and get invited to Scotland after Red Stag or Sika then that's it, but even a BIG Red Stag at 350lbs is not going to require premium bullets. Reds are shot every year using normal bullets without problems.

      No for my hunting and because of the silly prices charged here I won't be trying out any Barns bullets  for one thing the pocket can not take their prices  . I will simply carry on using  the normal Hornady, Speer, Sierra or S&B bulelts and carry on putting my Deer down  .

[R.W.Dale]

 It's all in what you demand of a bullet, Does a hunter using a 308 need an MRX to kill whitetail at 200 yds. NO Would I  buy a $1 a pop bullet Probably not. But in my case STD bullets just ain't cutting the mustard. Certianlly I used to think premium bullets were just a waste of $$$$. But over time I've gotten tired of sending 180grn ballistic tips into deer with my 300WBY and havin them explode and not fully penetrate even at 200+ yds.  My solution step up to a Nosler partition $0.50 each


 My only beef with the ultra premium bullets is the price seems somewhat overinflated putting them well outside my shooting budget.

[coyotejoe]

I've asked several hunting guides and outfitters if they have ever seen a well placed bullet fail to quickly kill. They all answered the same, with a slow and thoughtful shake of the head "no"!  These guys have seen a lot more animals killed and have dissected more animals than any one hunter could be allowed to do. They've seen all sorts of hunters shooting all sorts of rifles and have never seen a well placed shot fail due to bullet performance. We all seem to have a preconceived notion as to HOW a bullet should kill.  The classic perfectly mushroomed bullet with no weight loss looks good in the adds but is that really what a bullet is supposed to do? No, a bullet is supposed to KILL and the classic mushroom is just one mechanism by which it may preform it's purpose. If a bullet blows up inside the ribcage it will still do the job of killing the game and in my own opinion it will most likely kill quicker than the one which lost no weight.  Now if one likes exit wounds every time then that explosive bullet is not for you but that doesn't mean it "failed" not if it still did it's job of killing the animal.

[kudzu]

Most of my hunting loads are with the swift scirocco and the nos. Accubonds. Both these bullets have giving me great performance on game, mainlly WT and elk. IMO under 200 yards most any bullet will work for the most part. For the longer shots the NEED for a prem. is more valid.
I have several rifles that for now I only carry to stands where shots are under 200. 25-06 for one which I shoot the 117 speer hotcors in. Will probally go with the 110 AB next year if my antelope hunt goes thru.

6mm- 95 BT mainlly yotes
270win 130 Accutips   
270wsm 140 AB
300saum 150 Scirocco
300rum 200 AB
7mm RUM 150 Scirocco
308 165 BTSP
7mag(coming soon) try 150 scirocco first
30-06- 180AB - Rem 742 woodmaster no scope - Black Bear
338wm 225 AB
That's the gest of the deer/elk size cal.
243 down to 17hrm mostlly BT
As far as cost goes- With the price of everything else, one  can't really tell a differance.

DM

[Honay]

How about a "normal"(non premium) box of ammo for my 458 at about 60 bucks per 20.
Or worse yet 50 bucks for 20 rounds for my Desert Eagle!!

I do shoot premium bullets in all my rifles that I hunt with and even some I don't. However I will not use X bullets anymore as I found that they foul bores very quickly for me.

[drdougrx]

I donno.....

I use nosler partition and BT factory seconds for just about everything and have never had any problems except with 130gr partitions that drilled holes through a few animals without apparent effect (though the animals did succumb (sp?)within 100yrds).  I've not used barnes bullets...never felt the need.  Factory second noslers cut the cost way down to about 1/2 the price.

[Coyote Hunter]

... If a bullet blows up inside the ribcage it will still do the job of killing the game and in my own opinion it will most likely kill quicker than the one which lost no weight.  Now if one likes exit wounds every time then that explosive bullet is not for you but that doesn't mean it "failed" not if it still did it's job of killing the animal.

I agree that a bullet that blows up in the chest cavity will kill the animal, and quite often dramatically so.  The problem I have with standard bullets is not with the well-placed, broadside shot but rather how such a bullet will perform if the first shot is not so well placed and a difficult follow-up shot (or shots) are required.  I don’t want a bullet that drills through with no expansion any more than I want one that might blow up short of the chest cavity on an angling-away or straight-away shot.  Unfortunately such shots are sometimes necessary and the results with standard bullets is not always as desired.

Can a bullet “fail” when the animal dies?  Yes.  In jurisprudence there is a potential finding of “Not guilty by reason of insanity”.  I have always felt a better finding would be “Guilty but insane”.  My first elk died due to a 7mm 162g Hornady BTSP InterLock.  The shot was a broadside at about 120 yards and the estimated impact velocity was 2740fps (based on 2950fps at the muzzle).  The bull dropped in its tracks as the bullet hit a rib dead center, passed through the chest cavity, missed the far-side ribs (it may have nicked one but no major damage) and came to rest under the hide on the off side.  The challenge to the bullet’s integrity was minimal, yet it retained only 47.7% of its original weight.  I still have that bullet, or what’s left of it, and keep it around to remind me why I don’t use such bullets any more. 

The next year I switched to Grand Slams and didn’t recover a bullet for over 20 years.  When I did it had destroyed both shoulder joints of a 5x5 bull elk, with an impact velocity very similar to that of the Hornady.  Although the challenge to the bullet’s integrity was much greater than for the Hornady, the Grand Slam retained 71.1% of its original weight.  I do not consider that bullet to have failed and there is no doubt in my mind which bullet I would prefer to have in the gun if a tough follow-up shot was needed.  Speer changed the recipe for constructing Grand Slams, though, and I decided to move on to what I consider to be even better bullets.

In the end it comes down to what you expect from a bullet.  If it fails to perform as desired it has failed, regardless of whether or not an animal dies.  Does everyone need a premium bullet?  Absolutely not.  Even I have not needed one – yet.  But one thing I have learned in hunting Colorado for 25 years is that a wounded animal can cover ground a lot faster than I can.  Someday I may blow a shot and need to stop a wounded animal from a bad angle.  If or when that occurs I won’t be worrying that the bullet I am using is not up to the task. 

Are premium bullets more expensive?  Yes.  Too expensive?  Not in my world, where elk are the primary target and deer and antelope are just practice for the main event.

YMMV

[Grumulkin]

So, what happened to the first part of this thread.  It appears that I started it but I didn't.  The first post was apparently deleted.  Now, since it appears that I started the thread, I have a few more comments:

1.  The analogy of people who smoke and then complain about the price of bullets is a good one.  I think even more ridiculous the large number of people who smoke and then complain about the cost of medicine to treat their bronchitis, the cost of the chest x-ray and the fee of the ER doctor.  There is also a very high percentage of smokers in the welfare population.  I don't smoke by the way.

2.  There is some sort of limit to what anyone will pay for a bullet.  Would you pay $25 a bullet to hunt elk; I doubt it.  It just happens that MRX bullets exceed the price of what I think I need to hunt anything in North America at over $1 each.  If I were hunting elephant with a 308 Win. I might think differently.  My prophecy is that at the current price for MRX bullets, the demand will be so low that they will be discontinued within 2 to 3 years.

3.  I agree with the argument that you'll only use a bullet or two on an elk so why not use a very good one.  If you are using factory ammunition and don't reload, I couldn't agree more of said bullet/cartridge combination was the most accurate and gave the best performance in my gun.  I, however, have more than one gun that has never seen a factory loaded cartridge.  If I decided to load MRX bullets, and unless the price come down I'm not going to, I would probably go through 3 or 4 boxes in load developement and then Barnes would discontinue the bullet (see above prophecy).  Thus, the use of MRX bullets just isn't worth it to me.

Don't misunderstad me though; I have several hundred dollars worth of Barnes bullets sitting on my reloading table right now.  I shoot them because I've found them to be very accurate in some of my guns and their performance on game is exemplary (despite what some detractor might think).  If you have a gun with a decent barrel (i.e., smooth and not pitted) and if you know how to really clean it (which many people probably don't really know how to do), they also don't foul the barrel excessively.

[tanoose]

Expensive for some but maybe not for others. Its simple for me i just dont plink with barnes or swift but if your talking about hunting then if you factor in the price of the hunt the price of your bullets is probibly the cheapest thing on your list

[RaySendero]

Re: Premium bullets - too expensive?

For me = YES!  Deer just aren't that tuff!

I reload for 5 CF rifles. To work up a load for a particular bullet I'll pick 1 to 3 powders.  Then for every different powder, I load 10 rounds - 2 each at 5 different charges.  Shoot each 10 rounds of the same powder on the same target so I can mark both how close the two shots at the same charge are together and how the centers of the two shot groups compare vertically to the others.  I do this over a chrono, so I can plot a velocity curve as powder increases.

From this data, I'll pick the load, use a balistics program to figure the best sight-in zero, and zero the rifle.  Then shoot 3 shot groups at several different distances to verify the trajectory.  If all goes well, I list the zero and other trajectory on a piece of masking tape on the rifles scope.  Before each hunt, I check the zero with 3 to 5 more shots.

So.....The cost of the bullets isn't just the one shot it takes to kill a deer - You have to figure the cost to work up the load, maintain the zero and practice!

My bullet preference tends to be on the long-for-caliber side and I don't shoot belted magnums.  I load 150 SGKs in my 270, 165 SGKs in both my 7.5x55 and 308, 200 Speer HCs in my 8x57 and 174 Hornady RNs in my 7.7x58.  All deer shot with any of these loads were one shot kills and had two holes.

[Redhawk1]

If I shoot Barnes bullets in my hunting rifles,  I practice with the same bullets.  If I want to plink, I will take my 22.

Grumulkin, if you are worried about Barnes discontinuing a certain bullet, do like I do, stock up on them.  When I find a bullet that works, I get a bunch of them. Also buy in the off season when there are sales.  

[Don Fischer]

I Have no problem with the bullet anyone uses. I don't even care what it cost anyone. But I also think many people are duped into buying bullet's becaused they are precieved to be better. Coyote Hunter shot his first elk with a 162gr Hornady and it dropped in it's tracks. But he think's it failed? So he moved on the Speer Grand Slams and never recovered a bullet for 20 yrs.  Then he say's Speer changed the recipie so he changed bullet's. Does he believe they down graded the bullet? 20 yrs of success and suddenly poof! your outa here baby. I think that he simply wanted a reason to change, bought the higher priced is better theory so got rid of a bullet that never failed him in 20 yrs in favor of the latest and greatest. Now nothing is wrong with that but, I don't buy that Speer downgraded their bullet and would buy that he just wanted to try another bullet. A bullet that for some reason seem's superior to a bullet that never failed. I think Coyote Hunter that you made a very good case for buying the Speer Grand Slam! It work's great and it's cheaper. I also think that anyone that feel's better about using a super premiun bullet should go ahead and do it. But don't sit there and tell me your old choice NEVER failed, so you upgraded!

[beemanbeme]

One fellow sez he was tired of "bullet failure" from his 300WBY.  It wasn't a bullet failure, it was a shooter failure for shooting an entirely inappropriate bullet.  I shoot what works for me.  And I've kilt a lot of stuff with Core Lokts, NP's and Grand Slams. And, to set the record straight, I think of NP's and Grand Slams as premium bullets.  If they didn't work for me, I'd be the first to change. 
One fellow --Coyote, I think-- said over years of shooting the difference in bullet cost might buy him a glass of wine.  He must not shoot very much.  Or often. And, even tho I'm shooting NP's and Grand Slams when I travel to hunt, I practice with the cheap stuff. 
I think that sometimes a fellow buys bullets based solely on price (or hype) and ends up with a bullet that is inappropriate to his needs.  Especially when he buys a boutique bullet that is intended for some super boomer and tries to shoot it in his .308.  Or buys some HP bullet and tries to use it for hunting at warp speed.  Both will tell you they had a bullet failure but that isn't the case.  It doesn't take much to tump over a 120# WT here in Wild and Wonderful West Virginia, Motto:" Don't say anything bad about the state or some drooler will ask you to leave", but many of the locals buy store bought ammo with premium loadings.  If it works for them, who am I to say otherwise.  I just keep quiet and keep popping them with my Core Lokts. 
A fellow has got to have confidence in his equipment that's for sure.  Whether you drive a Lambrigini (I can't spell it so you know I ain't got one) or a VW to work, if you get to work on time and are satisfied, that's all that counts.   

[R.W.Dale]

One fellow sez he was tired of "bullet failure" from his 300WBY.  It wasn't a bullet failure, it was a shooter failure for shooting an entirely inappropriate bullet.

 OH yes how dumb of me to assume the folks at weatherby knew what they were talking about
http://www.weatherby.com/products/ammo/nosler_ballistic.asp

 It's MY fault that the Nosler lists a 180grn B-tip as

http://www.nosler.com/index.php?p=3

 Unlike some It took me only two deer both with the exact same results to decide this bullet was woefully inadequate for the task.

[jro45]

For practaceing I shoot all the name brands, no premium bullets. For hunting I use Nosler Partitions.
I think Premium bullets are a little on the expensive side. But thats why I don't shoot them when practaceing.
Except to make sure they fly streight.

[Coyote Hunter]

So, what happened to the first part of this thread.  It appears that I started it but I didn't.  The first post was apparently deleted.  Now, since it appears that I started the thread, I have a few more comments:

The first post was not deleted.  What happened was you changed the subject ansd I used my Moderator privileges to split your new topic off into a new thread.  The original thread still exists and the subject is accuracy, not cost.  You can find it here:

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,113581.0.html

[Coyote Hunter]

Don –

The older Speer Grand Slam bullets had a hard rear core and a softer core up front.  I don’t know exactly when the change occurred nor do I know which type I shot and recovered.  What I do know is that the new bullet was different than the one that had served me so well for 20+ years.  I was finding that the newer bullets required a different seating depth to maintain the distance from the lands, the cannelure was in a different place, and powder charges needed slight adjustments.  And I still didn’t know how the new bullets would perform on game.  It wasn’t that I left the Grand Slam so much as the Grand Slam was no longer what it had been.

Was I ready for a change?  Absolutely.  For years I had been questioning why I was shooting handloaded Grand Slams instead of the Partitions when my backup loads were Partitions in Federal factory loads.  Didn’t seem to make a lot of sense.  Since the Grand Slams had changed it seemed to be a good time to re-evaluate my bullet selection.  If nothing else it was perhaps time to change to a Partition.

My initial interest was I the then new XLC bullets from Barnes.  These bullets promised higher velocities and higher weight retention, and their monolithic construction made them extremely tough.  Unfortunately my one experience with antelope sent me back to the fields that fall using Grand Slams again.

Was I “duped” into buying bullet's I perceive are better?  No – I do not expect to get something for nothing and I spent a fair amount of time and effort determining which bullets could provide the features I wanted.  Those features included bonded cores or monolithic construction, reliable expansion from the muzzle to well past any range at which I would actually shoot, and high weight retention.   These features combined should guarantee the penetration I wanted.  Good accuracy was another requirement.  Initial experiments with XLC’s proved disappointing but I did not give up on the idea of a solid shank.  In the end I selected the North Fork, A-Frame and TSX as the bullets I would use.  The MRX has been added to the list, and all are providing me with what I wanted.  While I still have a supply of Grand Slams, Partitions and XLC’s on my bench, I no longer use them for hunting in the bolt guns (the .30-30 still gets Partition RN’s and Hot-Cor Speer bullets).  My hunting buddy switched from Grand Slams to Trophy Bonded and I don’t think he will switch back any sooner than I will.

I might add that accuracy with the North Fork, A-Frame, and TSX has been nothing short of outstanding, much better than actually needed.  The MRX show a lot of promise as well although I doubt they will be as accurate as the TSX.

You and I would disagree as to whether or not that 162g Hornady failed on my first elk.  I say “yes”, you say “no”.  I didn't know anything about bullets back in those days and chose the BTSP for its high ballistic coefficient, never stopping to think that it might not perform as I would expect it to.  Imagine it was a wounded elk that turned tail and ran and a THS was needed to stop it.  I would not have been very comfortable with the bullet selection which is why I switched to the Grand Slam.  Bullet technology has advanced consideraly since the early 80's and the bullets I am using now would make me even more comfortable taking that shot.  Perhaps one reason the Grand Slams never failed me is that I have taken only broadside shots. Guess we’ll never know...  So yes, the Grand Slams have never failed me but I upgraded anyway – not on the basis of the shots I’ve taken but on the basis of shots that I might need to take.

[Coyote Hunter]

... I think of NP's and Grand Slams as premium bullets. ...
One fellow --Coyote, I think-- said over years of shooting the difference in bullet cost might buy him a glass of wine.  He must not shoot very much.  Or often. And, even tho I'm shooting NP's and Grand Slams when I travel to hunt, I practice with the cheap stuff. 
...

My own thoughts are that the Grand Slams are semi-premium – definitely a notch above standard cup-and-core bullets but not up there with the AccuBonds, InterBonds an other bonded bullets.  Haven’t decided where the Partitions stand.  At one time they were definitely a top premium but with the other options available today, like the A-Frame, I would put them at the low end of premium and perhaps a semi-premium.   Not that it matters as both are still very effective bullets.

As to the glass of wine, the reference is regarding money saved while actually hunting, not at the range.  Generally one shot per animal, occasionally a second to hasten the inevitable, very rarely more.  Figure around $0.44 per shot if I load my .300 with 180g North Forks instead of Partitions. Around here a glass of house wine at a restaurant will run $6 to $8.  At $0.44 per shot, that’s 13-18 loaded rounds for the same cost as the glass of wine.  Depending on how lucky I get in the license lotteries, 13-18 rounds could easily be 5-6 years.

Like you, I practice with the cheap stuff most of the year.

[Redhawk1]

Why is it when someone chooses to shoot premium bullets, "they are some how duped into buying bullet's because they are perceived to be better."
I make a decision on what I want to shoot, I have been shooting Barnes bullets for many years and from my experience, I like them. So why should I have to explain why I choose them.

Again, when ever the premium bullets discussion come up,  all the guys that don't use them come here and tell us why we should not use them and we pay to much. So what, it is my money and my choice. I don't go to the standard bullet threads and ask you way you shoot cheap bullets, do I?  Shot what you want, you bought them. When you buy my bullets for me, I will shoot what you think is the best thing going, until then I will shot what works for me.

I think I am going to start going to every standard bullet thread as ask, why do you shoot cheap bullets, and I am sure I will get the same response I gave you, because that is your choice.  Am I right. 

[Larry Gibson]

I've been killing deer, antelope, elk, sheep, bears and caribou for 47+ years. I've used cast bullets, regular factory bullets, regular reloading bullets and premium bullets. Like the post about what the guides said; put the bullet where it belongs and the animal is dead. I have never seen any difference in "killing" between any of them. What I want is a bullet that will offer external ballistics compatable with the hunting conditions I'm in and terminal ballistics that offer expansion in the animal throughout the range I will shoot. I do not do Texas heart shots so 46 yards of penetration is not necessary. I most often hunt with standard cartridges. I have not found a single premium bullet that kills any better than a Hornady Interlok, a Speer Hot-Cor ora Sierra Game King in standard cartridges along with Silver tips, Power Points and Core-Locs. These regular bullets also work fine in the older more sensible magnums if the heavy for caliber bullets are used. In the newer super magnums a more stoutly constructed bullet is probably adviseable. Also, it is my experience that the poster who thinks a premium bullet will make up for bad bullet placement should rethink that be cause they won't. The only true magnum rifle cartridge I use these days is the .375 H&H and I would use Speers GSs in Africa on the larger plains game but for stateside use most any of the 250-300 gr standard bullets is fine. I do use one Barnes bullet; that being the 400 gr OG SP in my Siamese Mauser 450-400-70 (45-70). I push that bullet out at 2300 fps. I use that bullet because it is a SP and most all 45-70 bullets are FP/RN. In addition that velocity is way above the terminal velocity limits of any regular 45-70 bullet. 

As to the cost of premium bullets the poster who said you must consider the cost of working up the load, zeroing and practice is correct. It is not just about the one or two shots when hunting. For many who only hunt locally or once a year for deer the cost of premium bullets is a bit much. For those hunters going to Alaska or Africa the cost of the bullets isn't much considering the overall cost of the trip. However, when I went to Alaska for caribou it was the Hornady InterLoc that went with me. When I went for my Rocky Mountain Big Horn Sheep it was the Hornady InteLoc that went. When I went for Mule deer and elk this last year as in many past years it was the Hornady InterLocs that went. And I might add; they did the job as always. When I go to Africa it will be the Hornady 190 BTSP in the '06 for most of the plains game. In the .375 will be the Speer GSs for Greater Kudu and/or the Hornady solid for Mbogo. Other than that I've not found a need for premium bullets or the need to pay for them.

I'm not trying to convince anyone here one way or the other. It's your money so spend it on whatever bullets you want. I'm just saying what has worked in the hunting fields for me for years. I woul suggest to new shooters and hunters that you don't get too wrapped around the axle over this issue. Spend your dollors on an accurate bullet/load for your rifle and practice from hunting positions at various ranges with your rifle. If you can get 2-4 times the amount of standard bullets as premium bullets for your shooting dollars thn that is just that much more practice. Then come hunting season you can load up some premium bullets, confirm zeroes at all ranges and go hunting if you want. I will finish by stating it is with practice and the ability to put the bullet where it belongs that counts in the hunting fields. Be able to do that and you, nor the game animal, will not know the difference between regular bullets and premium bullets.

Larry Gibson

[Don Fischer]

Cotote Hunter,

I don't know when speer changed it either. Years ago my bullet of choice was Speer but their customer relation's went down hill when Vernon Speer sold out. Then I noticed that I wasn't getting the accuracy I used to get with then. So I switched over to all Hornady. I'd been useing them also when I used Speer's. Funny, when I got my 6.5x06 I had every intention of using 140gr Nosler Partitions in it. Went over to Nosler and bought some and they shot well, but expensive. I bought 140 gr Hornady's to practice with and found they both shot to the same point of impact! Well elk season rolled around and all I had loaded was some Hornady's left over from deer season, so I used them. Two shot's two dead elk. I don't doubt that premium bullet's are better made, I just haven't found a need for them. I don't think there's any really bad bullet's but some are constructed studier then I need, or think I need.

But the question was are they to expensive, no, not if your willing to pay for them. I'm courious. If the super premiun's cost $2 a bullet, how many would still use them? How about $3? 

[Coyote Hunter]

Cotote Hunter,
...

But the question was are they to expensive, no, not if your willing to pay for them. I'm courious. If the super premiun's cost $2 a bullet, how many would still use them? How about $3? 

A couple years back I split a box of Speer African Grand Slam Tungsten Solids, the same bullet Randy Garrett uses in his 'Exiter' ammo.  Cranked them up to 1554fps in my Marlin 1895.  Awesome bullets but I have no use for them.  Cost was $5 each, which is why we split the box of 20 four ways.  Haven't bought any more...

If my only choice was Hornady InterLocks for $0.20 or North Forks for $3, I'd hunt with the North Forks.  But I wouldn't practice much with them. 

[beemanbeme]

Why was my last post deleted???