Author Topic: Premium bullets - too expensive? (Read 3106 times)

Sourdough · « **Reply #30 on:** March 12, 2007, 10:23:43 AM »

For Whitetails, Mulies, and any other thin skinned animals, any ole bullet will do. But for dangerous game, give me a good premium bullet. Expense is no consideration. My life and wellbeing means too much to me. I was shooting Nosler's back in the early 70s when most folks were saying they cost too much. Today I shoot a Weatherby .338/378, try buying a box of their factory ammo. $110.00 a box at Sentry Hardware in Fairbanks, ouch.

I load the best bullet I can find for the particuler application I am using them for.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #31 on:** March 12, 2007, 03:46:58 PM »

And how do we know the premium bullets are "better"? I don't think anyone does know. One may shoot one hundred animals with one bullet, get one hundred one-shot-kills and have a pretty good idea how that bullet works from his rifle under his conditions on that animal. But try a new bullet and what are you going on but advertising hype, until you've shot another hundred animals you don't know that bullet you just BELIEVE it must be better. Hype sells.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #32 on:** March 12, 2007, 04:19:57 PM »

I am done with this thread, It is so bad it is comical.

Grumulkin · « **Reply #33 on:** March 13, 2007, 12:38:15 AM »

I have a confession to make. There are some bullets I do pay almost $1 each for; they would be .458 cal. Woodleighs in the 500 gr. PSP version.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #34 on:** March 13, 2007, 05:14:06 PM »

Quote from: beemanbeme on March 12, 2007, 03:30:56 AM

Why was my last post deleted???

Wasn't me - since taking on the role of moderator I've only taken one action, and that was to split a thread into two separate threads with no posts deleted.

Are you sure it actually got posted? I've hit the wrong button more than once only to discover my error later.

Slamfire · « **Reply #35 on:** March 13, 2007, 08:41:54 PM »

It all depends on the application. the Nosler Partition was the first "premium" bullet, and it worked wonders, but then Roy Weatherby sold ultra high velocity and the partition demonstrated a propensity to fail when IMPACT velocities exceeded 3100 fps. Every bullet maker under the sun saw fit to "solve" the problem. Cost took a hind seat in devleopin' these solutions. Now with one of the smaller 6.5s the 160 Hornady round nose is the "perfect" bullet, but a .30-.378 is a whole different animule.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #36 on:** March 14, 2007, 04:03:51 AM »

Dang, I hate that, CH, 'cause I paid you a compliment.

nomosendero · « **Reply #37 on:** March 15, 2007, 03:18:41 PM »

Quote from: coyotejoe on March 12, 2007, 03:46:58 PM

And how do we know the premium bullets are "better"? I don't think anyone does know. One may shoot one hundred animals with one bullet, get one hundred one-shot-kills and have a pretty good idea how that bullet works from his rifle under his conditions on that animal. But try a new bullet and what are you going on but advertising hype, until you've shot another hundred animals you don't know that bullet you just BELIEVE it must be better. Hype sells.

I thought it only took fifty!

Cement Man · « **Reply #38 on:** March 15, 2007, 05:09:29 PM »

C'mon, please get the numbers straight. I had 61 more animals to go before I thought I could try my second bullet. Now you're saying I could have already been on my third? Dang!

beemanbeme · « **Reply #39 on:** March 15, 2007, 05:55:18 PM »

There are a number of at home test you can run to check terminal performance of a bullet. While the various medias might not be the same as flesh, they can give you relative performance data. Especially when you have a faithful, one shot bullet to compare them to.
Milk jugs of water; wet and dry newpaper; telephone books; baggies of sand or clay, wet or dry, etc. I'd hate to pay the price of several different boxes of 50 premium bullets so I could shoot one of each into a stack of wet paper but I guess one could sell the other 49 on Ebay.
Several years ago, one of the reloading mags ran a comparison of the performance of all of the then available .308 cal bullets. I don't remember all of the detes --I kept the chart but not the article-- but not too surprisingly, some of the plain jane vanilla bullets did as well as any of them.
It was that article that turned me back to believing a Core Lokt bullet is a pretty darn good bullet. IIRC the bullets were tested at 30-06 velocities so with todays super boomers, the results might be valid at the warp speeds possible.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #40 on:** March 15, 2007, 08:33:02 PM »

Quote

but then Roy Weatherby sold ultra high velocity and the partition demonstrated a propensity to fail when IMPACT velocities exceeded 3100 fps

Those screw base partitions never really failed...They just opened faster and didn't punch great big exit holes...The rear cores would on occasion come out...but not often...and they did improve them in the next design change When the 270 Weatherby came out...folks loved it (and still do ) and the Partitions work just like they are supposed too...then...as well as now.

Mac

jvs · « **Reply #41 on:** March 15, 2007, 10:05:37 PM »

Things were much simpler when all bullets were round or conicals and were pushed down the muzzle. There weren't too many other choices back then.

When you buy a box of shells for a particular caliber, the composite of the lead has gone through reasearch and development for that caliber and velocity and the application for the animal hunted. It should work fine if you do your part as the hunter. But the question about bullet failure comes up when you are either hunting bigger and badder animals or you are pushing the bullet at higher velocities than may have been intended for that caliber.

If you are shooting a caliber that normally comes with a Designer bullet from the ammo manufacturer, then you should really be loading a premium bullet if you reload. Many of those premium bullets are not intended for the regular 'run of the mill calibers', and IMO, aren't worth the extra expense since they add nothing, except cost, to over all performance and results.

In most cases what you buy in a factory load is all you need, and to copy that recipe on the reloading bench is all that is necessary. But since it is Human Nature to tinker with something, bullet manufacturers are more than willing to help you out with Designer Bullets.

There are factory loads out there that use premium bullets. If you think you might benefit from using them, I would buy a box and test them, before jumping in with both feet and start reloading 50 or 100 and ending up with something that really doesn't fit what you are hunting for at the velocity you are pushing.

I am all in favor of doing what ever it takes, and to cover as many bases it takes to make you happy. I am quite happy with CorLokt's, but I can see using Nosler Partitions or Hornady Premium's under a very limited set of circumstances.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #42 on:** March 16, 2007, 04:50:25 AM »

The cup and core bullet made the round ball run for the hill's, the Nosler partition exposed the cup and core for what it really is, the bonded core came fighting back only to run into the monolithic bullet. Ya gotta wonder what's gonna make the monolithis bullt's a thing to scorn.

In the mean time, some people are still killing all sort's of game with round lead ball's going just fast enough to barely maintain flight. Little do they know how inefective they are!

jvs · « **Reply #43 on:** March 16, 2007, 10:05:59 AM »

I use a .50 spit patch and ball myself. Sometimes nothing suits me better than to sit at the range for a whole afternoon and play with my thunder stick.

Maybe that is why I am so critical of paying so much to go shooting. For the price of a can of black powder and a box of round balls ( which isn't much ), I can have plenty of components to satisfy the urge to make smoke and noise.

Now if I were to buy one of those Savage Smokeless Muzzle Loaders, I would definitely use Premium Bullets. There is a situation when I would buy them for regular duty.

Slamfire · « **Reply #44 on:** March 16, 2007, 03:47:24 PM »

Quote from: Mac11700 on March 15, 2007, 08:33:02 PM

Quote
but then Roy Weatherby sold ultra high velocity and the partition demonstrated a propensity to fail when IMPACT velocities exceeded 3100 fps

Those screw base partitions never really failed...They just opened faster and didn't punch great big exit holes...The rear cores would on occasion come out...but not often...and they did improve them in the next design change When the 270 Weatherby came out...folks loved it (and still do ) and the Partitions work just like they are supposed too...then...as well as now.

Mac

There weren't any of the screw machine jackets around when the Remington Ultra Mags hit the market. Drawn jackets tended to come apart and lose even the base plug.

That's a failure in the premium bullet business. I get along just fine with cup bullets, but then they don't get up to 3100 fps at any time.

nomosendero · « **Reply #45 on:** March 16, 2007, 05:47:10 PM »

It is good that we have many opinions concerning bullet types, this has caused companies to build not only better hunting bullets, but more accurate ones too, even the regular bullets are more consistant than they used to be.

It is true enough that round ball will still kill Deer, with the limitations that a good hunter understands, which are many. But I have killed many an animal where a round ball would have never worked, so it means very little to me.

As far as that goes, a good friend of mine has killed 100+ Deer with a .223 & 55 gr. softpoints, he knows when to shoot & has a long season to pick his shots & far more chances to harvest his limit on the 1,000 acres that he owns. I bet most people on this forum have not killed nearly as many. What does that tell us about good hunting bullets, nothing really. I have killed many Deer that he would not attempt to shoot because I used a bigger caliber & a better bullet. I hunt alot, but I don't have the time he does, works for me.

If your velocities are under 3,100 or esp. 2,900 or so & you animals bigger than Deer & a conventional bullet works for you, use it.
Some of my rifles are faster than that & when I need to use one of those, & I know when that can happen, then in some cases I will use a premium bullet.

There is no need for someone who doesn't shoot a high velocity rifle to give bullet advise to those of us who do. We all can figure out our needs & since the bullets are very cheap compared to the cost of an out of state trip, I am not too concerned when they cost a little more. I am ever amused at the fact that non-premium bullet users grip about the use of pre. bullets, but the pre. bullet users are not worried at all about the regular bullet users. To each his own & good shooting.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #46 on:** March 16, 2007, 06:35:09 PM »

It took me exactly one bullet to determine I would not use InterLocks again. Same thing with XLC's, although it took three to bring down the buck antelope they were zipping through (all lung shots). Have never needed anything better than a Grand Slam, which I consider a semi-Premium, but opt for better bullets any way. Why? Because someday I may have to stop a fleeing animal with a THS and want a bullet that will penetrate to the vitals.

These days its North Fork when I can, and generally A-Frame when I can't. I have hunted with the TSX once but didn't take a shot. I expect the MRX will replace the TSX for my 7mm and .30's.

jvs · « **Reply #47 on:** March 16, 2007, 09:20:15 PM »

Getting back to the original question of this thread.

I don't think Premium Bullets are too expensive. I think they charge 'what the market will bear', like everbody else.

For me to understand the need for premium bullets, I would also have to understand using a caliber that throws weight in excess of 3100 fps, which I don't. But this is another area that it is better for me to shut up, because I am a true believer in that you should be able to buy anything you can afford to use.

At one time a CorLokt was considered a Premium Bullet, and are generally a little more expensive than standard bullets. I buy CorLokts because I know what I'm getting, and when I hit the third rib behind the shoulder going in, a higher priced bullet wouldn't do any better.

Over time, other manufacturers have been trying to capitalize on Remingtons success by offering other special doodads. So I guess if you have a super duper caliber, you do need those less cost effective bullets. All things are equal.

Grumulkin · « **Reply #48 on:** March 17, 2007, 02:53:23 AM »

Quote

At one time a CorLokt was considered a Premium Bullet, and are generally a little more expensive than standard bullets.

Now, Remington Core-Lokts are about the cheapest hunting bullet you can buy. It's best not to use them though, because animals have become much tougher over the years.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #49 on:** March 17, 2007, 03:39:52 AM »

If you are gonna take a light for calibre bullet and drive it at some boyhowdylookwhatIcando velocity you are gonna have to buy a hard, premium bullet.
But, while all the hype about the magic bullets has been going around, the folks making plain vanilla bullets haven't been sitting on their hands. You have improvements in jackets, core alloys, how the bullets are fitted together, etc. If you are driving a bullet under 3000fps, you don't really need a boutique bullet. But you do need to make good choices in the bullet you do use. When you buy a specialty bullet, ie hollowpoint, for hunting, you are opting for a much more narrow window of effectivness.
One of the mantras of one of the specialty bullets was that it would out penetrate any other bullet. This is great but when my bullets are already giving pass thru penetration, why do I need more?? By the same token, I've never shot an elk in the ass but if I had to, I don't doubt that a Grand Slam would get the job done.
But, as so many folks have posted, if you like them and they make you feel good, buy 'em and use 'em. If they are worth it to you, then they are not too expensive.

dw06 · « **Reply #50 on:** March 17, 2007, 08:36:05 AM »

Quote from: nomosendero on March 16, 2007, 05:47:10 PM

It is good that we have many opinions concerning bullet types, this has caused companies to build not only better hunting bullets, but more accurate ones too, even the regular bullets are more consistant than they used to be.

.

+1,Now aint that the truth!Man we are spoiled,but its great!