Author Topic: Proper Coyote Calibers (Read 3241 times)

Old Moss · « **on:** March 11, 2007, 01:51:05 PM »

Folks, I'm not wanting to start a war and do not want to insult anyone so please except my apology now. But, I have been reading the posts and would like predator hunters to enlighten me on the choice of calibers for yote hunting; ones I hear as being adequate for stopping coyotes in their tracks.

Now I learned to hunt coyotes from some of the best. A bunch of Old Farts in Southern California, won't mention names, but one or two were the very first to start calling yotes. I was highly encouraged to use 22-250 and up for coyotes (very tough critters) I personally saw many shot with 223s and 222s that frequently got away or ran a far piece, and we were luck to find them (yes they were shot through the boiler room). several shot under 100yds but ran 100-150 yds.

So has the 223 changed in the past few years?

I'm not slamming the 223 I really want to know.

I use the 17rem under 150 yards for pelt hunting. But darn Careful in picking my shots.

Now for Fox and Bobcat to 200+ yds, you can't beat the 222 or 223.

What I'm concerned about is that we are bringing up a new generation of predator hunters that are not being mentored appropriately. Especially on proper coyote calibers.

I was taught by some of the best and want to follow in there foot steps. So please enlighten me as I want to be sure we are doing things right and not just going for cheaper ammo and ease of equipment here. $:-\$ Thanks Old Moss

highwayman · « **Reply #1 on:** March 11, 2007, 03:22:38 PM »

I find that strange.I use a 223 with winchester silver tips and I never had trouble putting a yote down.Had a bobcat run off without his guts onetime but he didnot get far.

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #2 on:** March 11, 2007, 06:37:59 PM »

I think that the .223 & .22-250 are both great within calling ranges but tend to fizzle out quickly.
200yds or closer would seem to be a good ballpark figure with the calibers having enough authority to reach out another 100yds or so.

I am shooting a 55gr bullet out of the .22-250 @ around 3,760fps...even at that, at 400yds it isnt much better that a .22WMR right out of the muzzle...How about starting a 45gr bullet out of the .223 @ 3,300fps? Even worse and we have not even gotten in to how much the bullet will drop at 325yds which would be quite considerable with both calibers keeping the vitals of a fox or Coyote in mind.

Alot of the guys are great shots and have range finding equipment along with scopes that can be dialed quickly but this is for Varmint shooting and can be alot to get by with while Predator hunting.

oso45-70 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 12, 2007, 05:36:09 AM »

Welcome Old Moss.

I think you have asked the unanswerable question. Things have changed in the last fifty some years. When i started Varmint hunting we had to depend on wildcats to get the job done. We had the little mashburn bee, And loads like the 219 donaldson and a slew of other wild cats like the 22 Varninter later named the 22-250. then there was the 220 swift which was made on the brit. 6MM case and was a barrel burner, Now you have the 17 rem. the 204 and loads of variations there in plus a variety of 19 cal.s I just bought a WSSM 223 to go with the already too many Varmint rifles. To try to answer your question, In my opinion the country you are calling makes a big difference which cal. you use, Whether you are in a populated area or in the great outdoors away from dwellings. But I will guarantee you will have some say they have the answer to all our problems and i will answer Yep you got it and go about my business. Have a great day......Joe........

OLDHandgunner · « **Reply #4 on:** March 13, 2007, 03:39:00 AM »

I've used a 22-250 most of the time. Mostly with Hornady 55 SX. Drop dead in there tracks. Also have shot a few with my old 222 with 50 SX. Haven't lost one yet with this either. Just starting to use a 223 with 55 SX with same effects. Shot placement isn't that critical with the 22-250 as it is with the smaller rounds. But these SX bullets have always worked for me over the last 35+ yrs on varmints & coyotes.
I've read alot about pelt damage. About 1/2 of these coyotes shot with the SX bullet, the bullet never exited.
THE ONLY GOOD COYOTE IS A DEAD COYOTE.

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #5 on:** March 13, 2007, 08:13:05 AM »

always wanted to try that SX bullet but heard that they could come apart, in the air, at .22-250 velocitys (perhaps I should have been doing more shooting & less reading

)
I hear that Barnes offers a bullet similar to this (the .224 frangable grenade) that will survive the top end velocitys all while behaving like the SX.
Have not been able to find any for sale yet.

OLDHandgunner · « **Reply #6 on:** March 13, 2007, 08:44:32 AM »

glanceblamm:
Never had a problem with bullets breaking apart in mid air with my 22-250. (I heard it could happen in the 220 Swift). Each box of SX use to come with a little note saying that they may break apart at velosity's over 3600 FPS. My loads were in the 3500 FPS range. Give them a try, you may like them as much as I do.

PartsMan · « **Reply #7 on:** March 13, 2007, 09:46:49 AM »

I know that some guys around here have tried to use fmj 223.
That is not a good idea.
I have not had any trouble with good quality ammo.

onecoyote · « **Reply #8 on:** March 13, 2007, 12:16:04 PM »

Old Moss, I'm more interested in your Old Fart statement.

The oldtimers from southern California were probably members of the same club I belonged to for so many years.
One of the first guys on the planet to call coyotes with hand calls was from Bishop California, J.R. Alcorn. I know that's not one of the guys you are talking about.
Do you go back as far as Doug K or Jim D? If you do, then you've been around a long time.

Besides, I think you already know the answer to the question you asked. Welcome to the site lot's of nice people here, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

alsaqr · « **Reply #9 on:** March 15, 2007, 01:13:25 PM »

Since i do not sell the pelts i'm not worried about big holes in yotes. Sometimes in the winter i do give the entire coyote to a friend who traps and sells fur. Sometimes use a .22 Hornet and 45 grain bullet to 150 yards or so. Have made a few longer shots with it, one to 216 yards. Use 45-55 grain bullets of several makers in my .223 handloads and have killed coyotes reliably to 325-350 yards with it. In the .223 the military 55 grain ammunition from an accurate lot is about as good as anything you can buy.

For long range coyote busting i use a .22 CHEETA AKA .22/.308. This is about as powerful as a .22 gets. My handloads for this caliber use 45 to 55 grain bullets of several makers.

Old Moss · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2007, 05:06:37 PM »

Onecoyote - "High Desert Predator" Callers, Hunted a lot all over the Mojave area and into Nevada & Arizona

Well folks maybe I have under estimated the 223. Will have to do a little testing again myself.

Has anyone tried the 53gr Triple Shock all copper bullet from Barnes

In a 220 Swift or 22-250, at about 3600-3700 FPS may just be the ticket. What do you all think?

Thanks again Old Moss

onecoyote · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2007, 06:08:11 PM »

So what do you know about the High Desert Predator Callers club out of Apple Valley California or the CSVCA? I've hunted all over Nevada and Arizona myself, do I know you maybe

Fat NDN · « **Reply #12 on:** July 26, 2007, 09:22:43 AM »

I use Savage 22-250 Rem. 55gr Ballistic Silvertip - do work good.
I want to try a 260 Rem. maybe change out my 22-250 barrel.

onecoyote · « **Reply #13 on:** July 27, 2007, 05:59:10 PM »

Never did get an answer to my question? That's ok........Bottom line, a 223 is a medium range caliber based on the 222 case, another medium range caliber.
"Everything equal", a 22-250 or the old 220 Swift well reach out another 100+ yards further with some authority. You all can talk all you want about this subject, but facts are facts.

Fat NDN · « **Reply #14 on:** July 28, 2007, 06:12:07 AM »

I hunt all the time for the State Game&Fish Commission, seasons don't apply to me and I have killed coyotes at ranges as far as
300 - 400 yds with no problem with a Savage 22-250 Rem.

jamaldog87 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 28, 2007, 06:39:57 AM »

i seen someone kill a yote down here with a .223 AR15 at 300 yards. we also have used( my little hunting group) airfoce .22 airguns at 150 yards and had no problem getting them down with one shot but we aim for the head anyways. Found what i have seen and read-ed both the .223 and 22-250 are both good long range coyote cal. at 400 yards or less. But i have not used those cal. but from what i have seen with a .22 high powered you should have no problem kill them at 300 or less. I have used 12ga, slingshot, .22LR and .22 airguns at 100 or less and never had a problem killing them and i used once a friends 308 on a yote at 350 and i hit it high and it still was down.

jamaldog87 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 28, 2007, 06:56:33 AM »

oh, we hunt close down here not at long range much so i guess i should have not posted. But we have a mix of guns from .22 airguns to 308 win and we had no problem downing coyotes. In the group there is a 220 Swift,22-250 Rem., 223, and 204 but if it was me i would get the 204 or 22-250 because i have seen them make kills at 500 yards on coons and rats.

onecoyote · « **Reply #17 on:** July 29, 2007, 07:32:03 AM »

Jamaldoc87, I don't know about rats and coons, I kill coyotes. A 500 yard KILLING shot on a coyote is 90% luck for the average shooter.
Gun companys had no intention of ever making a 22-250 a 500 yard caliber on coyoted sized animals, I think it has something to do with genetic energy.
Ground squirrels, prairie dogs etc can and do fit right in that 500 yard range for the 22-250 and the Swift.
Real long shots on anything has a little luck factor in it for the average shooter. There are some people out there that can call those LONG shots, but they are not a dime a dozen to come by.

trotterlg · « **Reply #18 on:** July 29, 2007, 08:36:07 AM »

Remember what the question was, a "proper" Coyote cal. One of the CF 17's is it, everything else is more or less than needed. If you go out a couple of times a year and just want to kill a Coyote then take a 30-06 and get the job done. If you have a little skill, want the pelts and take a little pride in doing it right, then a 17 Remington is the way to go. A properly killed Coyote should have one very small hole it, if yours have two holes in it then you didn't do it right. Larry

~Ace~ · « **Reply #19 on:** July 29, 2007, 09:00:42 AM »

In MY neck of the woods, the .223 is plenty for yotes in most situations with .55 grain V-Max or SX-SP. There are some stands that will present shots at 300+ yards, and or ones that they just will Not stand right. On these I prefer a .243 with 75 grain V-Max.

In the .223 / .22-250 debate, out to 200 yards (+ or-) there is not a big advantage with the .250, past that it takes over. The .223 is Cheaper to shoot (More Practice) and Not as Loud. Making it desirable in many locations. If you can shoot it, you will not be Under gunned with any of the .22 cal center fire Bigger than the Hornet. I'd not count on a .20 or .17 cal to STOP a tuff old Yote, they will damn sure Kill it with Perfect shots, But I do Not believe they have the Power to do it Properly, in the Real World.

The "Buzz" the past couple years with How tiny of a caliber can I use is kinda amusing as it comes in the wake of the "My Magnum is bigger than yours" years. Reckon everyone's shoulders still hurt ?

We owe it to the prey to use the Proper caliber, at the proper distance. .223 is the smallest I believe from My experience I would want to Hunt Yotes with. If a shot presents it's self with a smaller caliber and you think you can take it, Go for it... I took one with a .17 HMR at 35 yards and it was a Bang Flop head shot. Bear have been killed with a .22 (Lots of them). But take the right tool for the job if your going after Yotes. ~Ace~

trotterlg · « **Reply #20 on:** July 29, 2007, 09:24:15 AM »

Guess the skill level of the hunter needs to be factored in some place, as the skill level decreases the calibur required increases. A skilled Coyote hunter can get the job done properly with a 17 CF, with a little less skill, one of the 22's will get it done a little less properly, for the once a year shooter a .243 would probably be in order. Shoot what makes you comfortable. Larry

~Ace~ · « **Reply #21 on:** July 29, 2007, 11:28:01 AM »

I don't believe that "White Feather" Carlos Hatchcock could get Consistent Bang Flop kills with a .17 of Any kind, And where I hunt in the hills of TN, if it goes even 100 yards, your chances of finding it are Slim, especially with a lil bitty entrance hole and seldom an Exit... So no Trail. But, I reckon it's like deer hunting with a .223, even tho a Good # of them run off and die hours or days later, people still do it and condone it. Me, myself... I'll use the Right tool for the job, not a marginal Might work sometimes.

I have seen Perfect Boiler Room shots with .22 Cal. on yotes that the animal went a couple hundred yards before it fell. There Alot tuffer then people want to give them credit for.. ~Ace~

trotterlg · « **Reply #22 on:** July 29, 2007, 11:42:04 AM »

If it was shot with one of the 22's and ran off, for sure it wasn't a perfect shot. I started with a .243, then a 22-250, skipped the .223 and 204 and went directoy to the 17 Remington. I'm 60 years old, I think there is still time for you to turn from the Dark Side. Larry

onecoyote · « **Reply #23 on:** July 29, 2007, 02:29:26 PM »

Larry, do you know who John Henry is

I'm a young 64 myself, been playing this coyote hunting game a long time.
Ace, if you've shot enough coyotes you'll get runners no matter what you shoot them with or where you hit them, except for maybe a head shot.
I've shot coyotes with a 308, and 7mm-08s and watched them run 50 yards without a heart. Sometimes it just don't matter, the coyote don't want to die. Bullet placement, Genetic energy and hydrostatic shock are the big killers of coyote sized animals, but they don't know that

trotterlg · « **Reply #24 on:** July 29, 2007, 02:46:32 PM »

Well..................I do, I think Ace shouild ask him about the 17's, then hold on to his Ass. Larry

billy_56081 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 29, 2007, 03:49:53 PM »

The people I hunt coyotes use everything from a 17 rem to 25-06. The proper caliber is going to be a personal choice. I've used 223, 22 hornet, .243 and 25-06. All work great. This year I'm gonna try out my new 220 swift for 500 yards and less. I'll still bring the 25-06 along for taking very long shots on non moving critters. But if I had to choose 1 caliber I would say the .243. But that's only my opinion.

onecoyote · « **Reply #26 on:** July 29, 2007, 06:24:33 PM »

Yeah, I've known JH for maybe 8 or 10 years on the internet. Meet him in person once in Arizona at a weekend Shadetree party. A real nice guy, can't say that about him on the internet though.
His partner in crime as the "Coyote Gods" was Vic Carlson, Vic is a guy that knows his stuff. Been camping with Vic a couple times in Arizona, one hell of a guy. To bad JH comes on so strong, he really is a nice guy in person. Oh well, I'm still not a .17 fan lol.

trotterlg · « **Reply #27 on:** July 29, 2007, 08:05:08 PM »

I've never met either, although I have a winter place in Apache Junction. Some time I will have to stop by the Roundy and meet a few of them, I'm afraid I am far out classed in the Coyote business, but I bet I can drink with the best of them. It is a quirky site they have there, but they do know their stuff and don't tolerate idiots well at all. It is a pleasure to find a place that is not bound by political correctness and is not run by a committee. Try to sell BS there and you will eat it. Larry

onecoyote · « **Reply #28 on:** July 30, 2007, 04:27:15 AM »

Yeah, I know what you mean, I stopped going to that site a long time ago. Awww BEER.......I started drinking beer when I went into the Army back in 1962, never stopped. I'm living proff the stuff is good for you.

jamaldog87 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 30, 2007, 06:40:01 AM »

i see, most of the long shots we have are on rats, coons, starlings or any other pest game we can find. I don't own a long range rifle so i am the go-for, like go get the ammo, be the spotter or other stuff. They know i am a good shot with my .22, 12GA, or airgun but i have a short range so i am the one who has to do other stuff. I have killed yotes with my .22LR( about 6 from 85 longest to one at 3 yards) 12ga and one a long time ago with my 35 pound draw slingshot. long shots do come down to luck but a good gun helps. I am the varmint master(rats to coyotes) with my 22 airgun and .22 h&R.