Author Topic: I can't understand! (Read 1778 times)

snuffer#1 · « **on:** March 11, 2007, 10:56:33 PM »

I mean no disrespect, but this accidental discharge thing is unacceptable!

I have a few rifles, shotguns, and 3 handguns. Now my handguns are all revolvers. I just perfer revolvers. When I'm hunting, cleaning, or shooting at the range, I take the time ( which is only a few seconds ) to make sure there are no guns of mine that have anything that can fire. One thing I do is when I come out of the woods, I unload right where I'm standing and put the shells or bullets in my pocket and take the time to put them right back in the box. When I'm at the range, I clean my firearms right there, so for sure no gun of mine is going to be loaded. I'm very picky about firearms in the house also. They are in gun vaults and locked.

Even when I purchase a new one, I make sure that it isn't loaded, and when I get it home, it gets a good cleaning. For something that can maime or kill you, I take the time to make sure. One thing, even if you are tired, take just a couple of minutes to make sure!

And don't be lazy with firearms. I don't know about a lot of people, but when I was growing up, safety with guns was paramount!

thomas

Rvito · « **Reply #1 on:** March 12, 2007, 01:51:28 AM »

I agree 100%. alot of gun accidents are caused by lack of common sense. Just read an article about a little 12 Year old boy killed when some JACKASS let him fire a 454 and the gun came back and hit the little Guy in the forehead killing him.

Wyatte · « **Reply #2 on:** March 12, 2007, 05:09:17 PM »

Now that one was really sad. Talk about being haunted by this the rest of your life, and the "what ifs and why nots?" That would be hard to recover from. I learned a very valuable lesson when I was 16. I hadn't had my deer rifle (.30-06) very long when I was 16, when my scoutmaster invited some of us boys to go shooting. To make a long story short - when we returned, my "unloaded" deer rifle discharged in the cab of my scoutmaster's pickup just as he was climbing in. Luckily it only blew a hole straight up through the cab roof, and nothing else! Talk about being traumatized (both of us). That was over 30 years ago. He brought it up again the other day when we were talking to some friends, and we all got a good laugh, but I'll tell you what - to this day I'm fanatically careful and extra cautious about my guns, or about anyone who is with me, because of this one incident. A lesson well learned, with a happy ending - except for the free air conditioning in the truck! Learn from other's mistakes - they've all been made before. wyatte

Paladin · « **Reply #3 on:** March 12, 2007, 06:41:32 PM »

My guns are always loaded, even when they are not loaded. thats the way I treat them. that holds true for any gun I pick up. be safe

schutzen · « **Reply #4 on:** March 13, 2007, 05:39:50 AM »

RVITO; that might be a good story for Snoops to investigate. I have no doubt that you read it and that that was what was written. However, it does sound like an anti-gun reporter has exaggerated or out right fabricated a "horror" tale about "deadly guns". Is the recoil of a 454 vicious? Yes. Is it foolish to allow a "small" child of any age to fire a 454 unassisted? Yes. Can that child be struck on the head by the recoiling handgun? Yes. Will that blow kill the child? That would be one heck of a rap to the head. I would guess the "real" story failed to make the printed page. This might be a good story for you to track down. If it is fabricated, expose the reporter/writer to the public. In the "good ole" USA, shooters are now in the minority. The general public's knowledge of firearms comes from Hollywood via the television and movies. If we as shooters can expose "fabricated" firearms "horror tales" we strike a serious blow at the credibility of all "anti-gun" propaganda. This might be your opportunity.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #5 on:** March 13, 2007, 05:48:57 AM »

Yes, I also find that hard to believe. I have no use for jerks who think it great fun to hand a beginner some really nasty kicking magnum, likely to spoil a new shooter, but not likely to kill them.

Rvito · « **Reply #6 on:** March 13, 2007, 07:13:04 AM »

http://ushunting.proboards48.com/index.cgi?board=hand&action=display&thread=1098499628

dcewolf · « **Reply #7 on:** March 13, 2007, 08:12:16 AM »

Quote from: Paladin on March 12, 2007, 06:41:32 PM

My guns are always loaded, even when they are not loaded. thats the way I treat them. that holds true for any gun I pick up. be safe

Ditto to that... and call me anal but I expect those employeed at gun shops to be educated and just as cautious with a firearm. I have had one occasion where an employee at a shop did not treat a pistol with "respect," I have not returned to the shop since, and don't ever plan on going there again.

myronman3 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 13, 2007, 10:13:50 AM »

nope, it happened; that is a fact. that kid is as dead as it gets and all because of something so stupid. i let my oldest boy shoot, but aint no way in hell i would let him shoot a cannon like that for a long time to come. maybe i will consider it after he is able to kickstart my panhead.

williamlayton · « **Reply #9 on:** March 13, 2007, 12:36:23 PM »

I hope no one here ever experiences an AD. It will leave a memory--and not good.
It is freightening and leaves you with a very distrust of yourownself---but it does happen even when you think you are being safe--matter of fact that is when it happened in my instance.
Stupid??? I leave you guys too be the judge of that.
Blessings

oznbolivia · « **Reply #10 on:** March 13, 2007, 04:14:03 PM »

Oh! I can understand, One millisecond of carelessness and it happens, that encludes not double checking your actions A few months ago I was at the range and one of the range officales was letting me shoot one of his rifles and he was shooting his other, a Remington 40X in a .223 and I was with his 22 rimfire. We stoped firing to check targets then exchanged rifles. One of the workers handed me the Remington opened the action and there was a live round in the chamber. Now the Remington 40X is a single shot. I have the habit of opening the action when laying down any weapon.

I as a kid had one round go off in the house thinking I had emptyed the rifle. I was cleaning and removed the stock then pulled the trigger to release the fireing pin spring. I was sure that I had removed all the bullets fron the gun. Scared the bees wax out of me.

Oz

blhof · « **Reply #11 on:** March 13, 2007, 04:45:07 PM »

As a ret USAF emergency tech; I have treated a few of those (empty) gun injuries, including security police and civilian security personnel. It happens way too often. I treat my weapons as if they are loaded at all times and have taught my son this also. I had one incident at a pawn shop, when a clerk handed me a Ruge 22 auto and I instinctively shucked it to make sure it was empty; out poped a live round. I later found out from the manager that the previous manager and a few clerks used to try some of the guns they got in. They don't work there anymore. My son won't take a weapon without first checking the action, he's done it for so long, it's a habit and one I'm glad he's got. I also can't accept a weapon without checking and I hope I never do.

1sourdough · « **Reply #12 on:** March 14, 2007, 12:54:32 AM »

I agree with the above words of caution, but with the human element involved one has to be careful. I have been useing firearms for awhile & been through a fair amount of military/police/hunter safty programs etc. The basic rules of gun safety are the same & do well for a person in all situations. No offense to anyone but I do see people that don't handle guns much head out to the range or woods in the fall & they are on their own. Just like the guy who uses a chainsaw once every 3 yrs, the potential is there.

I have heard about actions cleared on a pump shotgun only to have a stuck shell later release out of the magazine tube. I have taken a live 22 shell out of an 'empty' rifle. I once had a guy walk behind me with a loaded shotgun pointed at my legs. When I told him he can't be doing that he said, "the safety is on". Some malfunctions can leave a shell in the chamber even if you work the action. If you can see it's a good idea to visually check the chamber & even use your finger to back up your eyes. I remind myself every hunt that no game animal is worth a lapse in safety. There are all types out there.

corbanzo · « **Reply #13 on:** March 14, 2007, 08:33:59 AM »

It's all about experience gentlemen. Whether it be a kid, or an adult who acts like a kid. If a person doesn't have experience with firearms, they need to be taken care of and trained. I have been out shooting and seen some of the dumbest things ever, and even if I don't know the person, I will get in their face, and tell them what they are doing wrong, how to do it right, and why not to do it.

The truth is that in the event of an unexperienced shooter, it is not fully their responsibility, it is also the responsibility of those around them, especially in the case of a child.

In this sad story however, it was not at all the fault of the shooter, but the adult. If you are in control of a situation, whether it be a child or an adult, you must take all precautions necessary to make sure of the safety of the shooter and those around them.

I grew up my entire life surrounded by firearms and hunting, like many of you have, but the truth is that there are many out there who have not. Which can make them one of two things: uneducated - they don't know, but can learn. or: stupid - they don't know and are going to go by the "hit or miss" method. It's funny how much a little education can help out.

Safety should be the first things that people learn. Before you ever pick up a gun, before you ever chamber a round, somebody to teach every person about safety. This includes how the gun is going to react in your hands. I remember when I was growing up hearing the words "do you want to?" and "are you ready?" quite a few times. This put my learning curve in my own hands, even as a youngster.

darrell8937 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2007, 09:49:12 AM »

For all of you that puff up your chest, and think you are so smart, so safe, that you could never have a AD, Well good luck with that, It can happen to anyone, wether you are a beginner or a certifed NRA Instructor. Like saying you are a good driver and could never have an accident! Guns are machines, people are stupid, all people yes you and I.Being ultra conceious of safety is a great start, and absolutry necessary, But those who think it could not happen, because they are so smart and follow every rule, are dangerous. Hopefuly you will not pick up a gun someday and have a AD, You will then of course try to blame someone else, since you have built such a high image of your self. Gun safety reduces you chance, Does not eliminate it!

dcewolf · « **Reply #15 on:** March 20, 2007, 10:14:31 AM »

Quote from: darrell8937 on March 20, 2007, 09:49:12 AM

For all of you that puff up your chest, and think you are so smart, so safe, that you could never have a AD, Well good luck with that, It can happen to anyone, wether you are a beginner or a certifed NRA Instructor. Like saying you are a good driver and could never have an accident! Guns are machines, people are stupid, all people yes you and I.Being ultra conceious of safety is a great start, and absolutry necessary, But those who think it could not happen, because they are so smart and follow every rule, are dangerous. Hopefuly you will not pick up a gun someday and have a AD, You will then of course try to blame someone else, since you have built such a high image of your self. Gun safety reduces you chance, Does not eliminate it!

Uh....wow.... Except for maybe the first post stating: "I mean no disrespect, but this accidental discharge thing is unacceptable!" I haven't seen where anybody has said I'm never gonna have an AD. One of the biggest sentiments here has noted that you should always be "ulta concsious of safety" ..as you put it.. and always ALWAYS treat a gun as if it is loaded. That way if there is an AD you don't end up killing or wounding someone. That's why the "first rule of gun safety" is always keep a gun pointed in a safe direction....I kinda prefer - don't point a gun at anything you don't want to destroy, which is safe direction inclusive. Yes I agree, guns are mechanical devices that can and will fail at some point. We are also humans and do stupid things.

I hope I never have an AD...I've been around a few but never had one myself. Am I saying I never will....absolutely not...just hope I don't.

If I have misinterpreted you meaning and audience here please forgive me, but it does seem you speaking to all that have posted here.

Take care, and safe shooting

454Puma · « **Reply #16 on:** March 20, 2007, 07:07:07 PM »

To me there are no AD's- they are ND's And yes I've had one! Purely my fault a moments lapse in safety was all it took! Thankfully the only things hurt was my pride ,my coffee cup and and shirt in the lawndry pile!

LEO · « **Reply #17 on:** March 21, 2007, 02:44:42 PM »

Folks, I have seen both accidental discharges (when the firearm malfunctions) and negligent discharges (where the person handling the firearm does something wrong). I have had an accidental discharge, the firing pin was wedged in place by a piece of brass and the shotgun fired when the action was closed. Fortunately the firearm was pointed in a safe direction and no one or nothing was damaged. They have happened since guns were invented, in fact I have seen a negligent discharge with a bow so I guess they go back even farther. The bottom line is to realize that they can happen and to always exercise extreme vigilance when handling anything capable of discharging a projectile. While the goal is to avoid these things from happening, if you are always muzzle, trigger aware then you minimize the risk of them happening and if they do happen no damage is done because you had the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Most of the incidents that I am aware of concerning negligent discharges either someone who was unfamiliar with a particular firearm was messing with it or an experience user got in a hurry. The key is paying attention and asking if you don't know how a particular firearm works before you start messing with it.

deserthunter · « **Reply #18 on:** March 22, 2007, 10:00:52 AM »

Let me tell a short story -- Many years ago when I was young, to many to count. I was cleaning my fathers 30'06. I took it apart, stock off, scope off, bolt out, cleaned trigger, polished, oiled lightly, cleaned barrel, inside and out. oiled lightly, cleaned bolt and firing pin, repaced. Put stock back on and scope. I held the rifle up to my eye, but not holding it tight, and aimed at a paper flower in my dad's basement. Their was a cinderblock wall behind the flower, I pulled the trigger. The next thing I remember, was cleaning blood off by forehead, again I wasn't holding the rifle tight at all. There was white dust in the air. A 30 cal. hole in the paper flower, and a 2" hole in the cinderblock.
To this day I don't remember putting 5 rounds in the rifle, 4 in the mag, one in the chamber. It was very lulcky that know body else around. I fixed the whole before by parents got home and they never knew, until I told them, about 30yrs later. I think about it every time I pick up a weapon. That is nearly every day. I reload, shoot and hunt a great deal, but never forget that day......

35Rem · « **Reply #19 on:** March 22, 2007, 10:12:31 AM »

How'd you explaing the busted eye??

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #20 on:** March 22, 2007, 02:27:12 PM »

I've had to ND's in recent years and I was mad as hell at myself on both occasions. The second one almost hit my dog. No excuse, just no excuse. I'm considerably more diligent about the way I handle guns these days.

williamlayton · « **Reply #21 on:** March 22, 2007, 11:49:41 PM »

To be honest, there is NO excuse for AD's or ND's.
There is no excuse for speeding, making bad decisions, sin, immorality, hurting anothers feelings--the list goes on forever.
If it has ever happened too you, it is never forgotten and less likely to be reconciled within yourownself.
It happens too good people. It happens too the experienced. It happens too the careful, It just happens and I am at a loss to determine an appropriate defense.
Rules are good, and they help. A very structured procedure for handeling firearms is good, and this helps.
I make no excuse for either AD's or ND's and I have had one. I wish it had not happened and find myownself completely at a loss too expalin it--luckily (and luck is the best choice of words I can find) no one was injured.
If I could have it not have happened I would have---I would not have screwed up, if this is more clear.
IF you would think that you, by all your planning and carefullness can stop it, make it never happen too you, you are a very disallusioned person. You can do all the right things and sometimes just screw up.
Blessings

corbanzo · « **Reply #22 on:** March 24, 2007, 09:56:56 AM »

This is a good example of why it's unacceptable. You do everything you can to make sure that you keep yourself safe, and things can go very wrong. These things that go wrong work as a reminder.

Me and my buddies were out on in the desert in Arizona one day back when I was in college there. I was holding my .22 auto in my left hand, and was tapping on the side of the trigger with my finger, a stupid habit of mine. Little had I known that I forgot to put the safety on after the last shots fired. I put a .22 bullet in the ground, and a what the hell did you do that for look on my buddy's face.

What I did was unacceptable. It was a preventable mistake that should have never happened.

Quote from: deserthunter on March 22, 2007, 10:00:52 AM

Let me tell a short story -- Many years ago when I was young, to many to count. I was cleaning my fathers 30'06. I took it apart, stock off, scope off, bolt out, cleaned trigger, polished, oiled lightly, cleaned barrel, inside and out. oiled lightly, cleaned bolt and firing pin, repaced. Put stock back on and scope. I held the rifle up to my eye, but not holding it tight, and aimed at a paper flower in my dad's basement. Their was a cinderblock wall behind the flower, I pulled the trigger. The next thing I remember, was cleaning blood off by forehead, again I wasn't holding the rifle tight at all. There was white dust in the air. A 30 cal. hole in the paper flower, and a 2" hole in the cinderblock.
To this day I don't remember putting 5 rounds in the rifle, 4 in the mag, one in the chamber. It was very lulcky that know body else around. I fixed the whole before by parents got home and they never knew, until I told them, about 30yrs later. I think about it every time I pick up a weapon. That is nearly every day. I reload, shoot and hunt a great deal, but never forget that day......

jgalar · « **Reply #23 on:** March 25, 2007, 05:53:37 AM »

Sometimes, no matter how careful one is, sh** happens.

Could be caused by negligence, carelessness, over confidence, distractions, or a host of other possibilities, but if you don't think it can happen to you than you are mistaken and a good candidate for it to happen to.

I have never had a mishap yet, but do not think badly of those who it has happened to. Those who I have known that have had it happen to them were all competent and careful and the event shook them up quite a bit.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** April 24, 2007, 04:42:04 AM »

there are reasons for ad's , there is no excuse for hurting someone ! two come to mind that i have been around , first one was a 1911 that went full auto ( the little foot had broken off the main spring and somehow the gun kept fireing ) the 2nd ,3rd 4th 5th 6th and 7th shots were ad's since i did not intend to fire them . the gun was new , 3 mags full had been put thru. the gun , how could this been avoided ? what was avoided was injury because the gun was pointed down range , a hole did appear in the roof of the cover on the shooting line ( a full auto colt is a real handful ) . the second happened with a friends SKS , on a very cold day the fireing pin had frozen in the fire position ( yes you are correct he had not cleaned all the greese out of the gun ) this could have been avoided but once more muzzlle control saved an accident . i point these out because what would have happened if a new shooter had this happen ? i've seen new shooters drop a gun ( yep they were asked to leave the range ) what could have happened with a droped 45 in auto ? if you take new shooter out go over the standard safty issues then explain some of the might happen stuff , everyone likes to un load a mag as fast as he can , most have tried it , most know to not pull the trigger if the round just fired sound or feels funny RIGHT ? would a new shooter know this ? how about in high pressure competition ? the shooting sports is one place when it comes to safty its best to draw from someone elses ad experince , we don't all need to go there or do that and no one wants the A.D. teeshirt