Author Topic: Henry lever action rifles, original or copy of a Winchester design? (Read 2488 times)

His lordship. · « **on:** March 14, 2007, 10:11:04 AM »

Being a person into accurate replica black powder guns, what Winchester lever action rifle is the current Henry .22 lever action supposed to be a representative of?

Kinda looks like a model 1892 to me. What do you people think?

Thanks.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #1 on:** March 15, 2007, 07:23:25 PM »

Henry built leverguns before winchester did, So, who is copying who?

lakota · « **Reply #2 on:** March 16, 2007, 11:09:32 AM »

A Dealer once told me that the Henry was a copy of an old Ithaca.

jh45gun · « **Reply #3 on:** March 16, 2007, 07:15:06 PM »

That Dealer was wrong he had it backwards as the Ithica was made by Erma for Ithica and was the first guns the Imperato family made of this design. OK first of all the current owners have the right to use the name Henry just like Olin allowed several to use the Winchester name. They claim in the ad they are decended some how from the origional gun maker and may be related to Henry I have no idea, but I would think they could not get by with that if not true. If nothing else they do have the rights to the name. and yea as was stated Henry was before Winchester. The history of the 22 Henry as we know it being made today started out a design made by the Louis Imperato (Chairman of he board of Henry ) who is the Father of Anthony Imperato (President of Henry Repeating Arms) and he had them made in Germany by Erma with the 22 mag in 1973 the 22 was dated in my blue book as starting out in 1976 not sure if that is a misprint or not. The Ithica guns were made from 1973 to 1978 and were the model 72. The Erma model was the EG712 in the 22lr and the EG 73 in the 22 mag and the Erma description says it is a copy of the Winchester 94. Though we all know it is not an exact copy as they are made different. One more gun in the mix these guys bought out Iver Johnson and made the Iver Johnson EW 22 HBL Lever action called the WagonMaster and it came out in 85 to 86 and 88 to 90. I am thinking they bought out Iver Johnson to get the machinery to make their own guns instead of Erma making all of them. Later I think they renamed the Company Henry Repeating Arms as we know it today. The lever gun has not changed in the basic design since Erma started making them Now I have heard the self proclaimed gun experts claim that this gun would not last and it was cheap ect because of the alloy side plates yet gushed how good their aluminum framed Rugers were?

Go figure. I know one guy who is on the net who has a Ithica 72 22 mag and his gun still works perfect he loves it. I talked to another who has the WagonMaster and his gun is still working fine so much for them not lasting going strong over 30 years in the case of the Ithica is a pretty decent track record as we do not know how long it may last as it has years to be used yet I would bet. Plus Henry has one of the best Customer Service depts in the business. I am very impressed with the smoothness and the accuracy of my Henry 22 mag the gun shoots like a bolt gun or a single shot very accurate. One other note besides making the 22 rifles They also made for COLT the black power muskets and Cap and Ball Revolvers made in recent years. I am pretty sure that I have all the facts right here and if not if Anthony reads this and wants to shed more light on it fine with me. Note my blue book is a 94 and it states that Erma still made these then not sure if they still make them for the overseas market or not or if Erama is still in business I have no idea if they are or not? Maybe some one else here knows?

MSP Ret · « **Reply #4 on:** March 17, 2007, 01:59:45 AM »

Dp they still come with the plastic barrel bands? I realy wanted one at one time but that feature really turned me off, otherwise they looked like fine guns. It was an anomoly for an otherwise nice gun....<><....

kyelkhunter3006 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2007, 07:44:38 AM »

My father-in-law bought one this CHRISTmas for his youngest son, he's 10. It shoots very well, and is very smooth. Trigger isn't too bad either. They still have the plastic bands (and sights??) , but I think that you might be able to get metal bands and sights from Henry, if you want to upgrade.

jh45gun · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2007, 08:36:32 AM »

Yes you can get the metal bands from Henry. I thought they were going to upgrade all the guns maybe not unless that one happened to be old stock but if you have a gun with plastic bands contact Anthony at Henry and tell him you want the metal bands. I did and I have the metal bands on my Magnum. Jim

MSP Ret · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2007, 08:49:51 AM »

It sounds as if thier Customer Service is a good as H&R's. That fact as well as thier willingness to swap out the plastic bands and send you a steel one to replace it is a good sign and all the more reason for me to get one. Now try get up the funds and to decide on which to get, the .22 Mag or a .17 HMR,
decisions, decisions....<><....

Keith L · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2007, 12:31:27 PM »

The 17 HMR screams for a scope. I like my lever guns without one, so I would choose the magnum. Thats just my preference.

jh45gun · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2007, 02:51:56 PM »

My 22 Mag wears glasses too these guns are so accurate they should wear glass to get the best out of them. I shot a 5 shot group at 50 yards with mine that was just under a half an inch. Yea not that great until I say one shot was a flier the other 4 were in a hole that was less than 30 caliber using CCI FMJ ammo. It consistantly shoots under an inch with most ammo at 50 yards and under a half with ammo it likes and I do my part. My Henry 22 mag wears a Leupold M8 4X nice scope for a lever gun compact yet fantastic glass. Infact it is the best scope I own the rest are cheapies or I use peep sights.

kyelkhunter3006 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 18, 2007, 05:26:21 AM »

Quote from: MSP Ret on March 17, 2007, 08:49:51 AM

It sounds as if thier Customer Service is a good as H&R's. That fact as well as thier willingness to swap out the plastic bands and send you a steel one to replace it is a good sign and all the more reason for me to get one. Now try get up the funds and to decide on which to get, the .22 Mag or a .17 HMR,
decisions, decisions....<><....

That's my problem, I want all three..... the .22lr, the .22 mag, and the .17HMR. Sigh. But there are other things to pay for right now. $:-\$

MSP Ret · « **Reply #11 on:** March 18, 2007, 05:56:11 AM »

Thats one of the things I like so much about the Handis, affordibility. In the rimfire Sporsters I now have a .22 LR, .22Mag regular contour barrel, .22Mag Ultra Varmint, .17 HMR, and two .17Mach2's. They are so affordable and they all shot under 1 Inch at 100 yards, except the .22LR, and that might also, I just have never shot it at that distance....<><....

lakota · « **Reply #12 on:** March 21, 2007, 06:02:59 AM »

Well, this thread pushed me over the edge. I have been wanting a .22 levergun for a while, and I wanted a Marlin Model 39 in particular. When I saw the Marlin and the Henry right next to each other I just couldnt justify the extra $200 bucks for the Marlin, so I came away with the Henry Model H001T. It has the Octagon barrel and black reciever. I had a chance to shoot it the other day but conditions were not ideal. With the wind gusting and fingers numb from the cold I still managed half dollar sized groups offhand at 25 yards. It shot about an inch right of point of aim. I did not have anything to drift the rear sight with. Hopefully will get to try again today.

The Henry is a very nice rifle the action is slick and it locks up with an authratative "click"

I have a Ubertu Henry Replica in .45 Colt that I really enjoy, but I get tired of chasing brass and even with reloading it can still be expensive to shoot. I think this little .22 will do quite well for outings when I dont want to do a bunch of reloading afterwards.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #13 on:** March 21, 2007, 06:26:50 AM »

I don't think one could say the modern Henrey is a copy of any original rifle. It is styled to sort of resemble a '92 or '94 Winchester but, as someone already said, the mechanism is entirely different.
The original Henry repeating rifle was also a Winchester. B Tyler Henry was an employee of Oliver Winchester. He was assigned to improve the Volcanic repeater which Winchester had bought from Smith&Wesson. He redesigned it to use a .44 rimfire cartridge which was also a Smith&Wesson development, he just scaled up the S&W .22 short rimfire cartridge. Hold a .44 Henry rimfire at arms length and a .22 short at half the length and they appear identical.
After the Henry Repeater was a commercial success Winchester assigned another designer named King to work out the bugs from the Henry design. The result was the 1866 Winchester, the first rifle sold under Oliver Winchester's own name. It was advertised as "the improved Henry rifle" and it really was a great improvement. Kings improvement of the magazine reduced the weight and the cost of the rifle, made it much more convenient and safer to load. To replenish ammo in the Henry, one had to take the rifle out of action to load cartridges into the front of the magazine and if there was a round in the chamber it could be pretty dangerous. With the '66 one could add cartridges without even taking the rifle from the shoulder. The '66 was also much more reliable because it had no slot in the magazine to admit dirt and no follower sticking down to strike the hand and cause a jam. And while the Henry claimed a high rate of fire it became too hot to hold after just a few shots, the '66 was in every way a better rifle and soon led to the 1873 which really was just an iron framed '66 with a longer centerfire cartridge. The '86. '92 and '94 Winchesters were John Browning designs and were again a great improvement over the '73 and '76 Winchesters. But it was the Volcanic which started it all and the '66 and '73 which made Winchester synonymous with rifle.

jh45gun · « **Reply #14 on:** March 22, 2007, 06:56:32 PM »

You could say that about any 22 lever rifle as they are all have no loading gate like the origional Winchesters or Marlins did. So they all are kinda kin to the Henry feeding system with their tube feed systems which I suppose is cheaper to make and easier to load with the small 22 ammo.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #15 on:** March 27, 2007, 05:17:24 AM »

I have a question for you Henry shooters, will they feed .22 shorts? I'd love to get my hands on another Marlin 39 Mounty but they are pretty pricy these days. I sometimes like to shoot .22 shorts because they are so quiet and the Marlin handles shorts and longs jut fine. I might consider a Henry if they can feed a variety of ammo.

airgunandy · « **Reply #16 on:** March 27, 2007, 07:30:15 AM »

Will it feed shorts?
OH YEAH!
We use CCI CB shorts in our H001 quite often. No feed trouble at all. And it's really quiet. Kinda makes ya think ya got a real fancy Daisy Red Ryder BB gun it's so quite!
And like anything else we put through the Henry, it makes a hole right where ya point it!

coyotejoe · « **Reply #17 on:** March 29, 2007, 02:59:44 AM »

Thanks Andy, I'll certainly look into a Henry in .22LR.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #18 on:** March 29, 2007, 03:38:11 AM »

OK coyotejoe, and please let us know when you get it and how it shoots and functions as well as general fit and finish. I believe if you call the company after you get it they will/may exchange the plastic barrel band for a steel one for you. I would like to get one some day also but how to decide on the caliber, the .22's and the .17's are both so nice to have and to shoot!!! And for those of you that think shooting .22 shorts out of them is fun try some Super Colibris, if they feed shorts they should feed the Super Colibris as well ....<><....

coyotejoe · « **Reply #19 on:** March 30, 2007, 04:24:40 AM »

I haven't tried the Super Colibris but have shot a lot of standard velocity shorts, BB cap and CB cap, all so quiet you can distinctly hear the hammer drop, someone not accustomed would think it a misfire. My Dad, born in 1905, claimed that as a kid he fired a lot of black powder .22s and shotgun shells. Said that a black powder .22 short would not penetrate both sides of a new tin can. Maybe cans were tougher in those days, probably they were, but a CCI .22 CB cap will breeze right through modern steel cans. I once though they would be good for dispatching trapped animals but found that from the 4" barrel of my S&W kit gun they would not penetrate the skull of a coyote, stunned him and I had to slip the muzzle right into his ear to finish him.
My dad insisted the .22 short was the only round fit for squirrel hunting, both because it did not disturb the whole woods with its' noise and he claimed it would push a head shot squirrel off the limb where long rifles zipped through, leaving the squirrel dead but still lying in the tree. Of course, he also insisted that the best way to thaw frozen fingers was to rub them with snow! I don't know about the "push effect" but shorts are quiet and I like that.