Author Topic: Drahthaars  (Read 5231 times)

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Offline S.B.

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Drahthaars
« on: March 16, 2007, 07:26:55 AM »
Anybody know anything about Drahthaars? Thinking about getting one. TIA.
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Offline moxgrove

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Re: Drahthaars
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2007, 12:36:26 PM »
Awesome dogs, great hunters wicked smart. Too smart for their own good sometimes. They do need a lot of work and exercise or they get bored. I would never have anything but a Draahthaar or GWp from a really good line. They are hunters and not show dogs. Especially the draahthaars. Thay do like to eat cats and other small pets given the chance though. Maybe not eat , just kill and spread their guts around. My male got a hold of a bunny that strayed into the yard. only the front half made it out the fence. Very unhappy neighbor girl!

Offline S.B.

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Re: Drahthaars
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2007, 01:37:58 PM »
Thanks for the reply, your sentiments are what I"ve heard from several sources.
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Offline WesinND

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Re: Drahthaars
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2007, 04:52:20 PM »
Here's a link to the breed society, Verein Deutsch Drahthaar-Group North America:

http://www.vdd-gna.org/

I have one, a four year old male.   Call some of the refernces listed in the website, they will be glad to talk to you.  My only advice other than that is they have to hunt. Period.  Moxgrove gave a good description.  Be honest with yourself, if you aren't going to spend a lot of time with the dog training, exercising and keeping it mentally stimulated, get another breed.  I posted a pic of mine in the "do it all breed" thread. 

Wes

Offline S.B.

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Re: Drahthaars
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2007, 05:30:10 PM »
Been there done that!
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Offline prairiedog555

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Re: Drahthaars
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2007, 10:28:50 AM »
The best dog I ever owned was a Wirehair.  Very smart and a great pointer and retriever, and a real clown.  We had many adventures over 11 years.  Like the time she went under the ice to retrive a duck, and I had to dive in after to retrieve her, wouldn't let go.  Or the many times she pointed fish on a stringer, finally sticking her head in to pick one up.  Or making 20-30 minuit retrives on chucker down a canyon.  Maybe a litte too protective.  I would advise getting a female.
Anyway, wirehairs are great, but Draathars are better.  If you read on the VDD site you will see they are selectively bred for intellegence and hunting ability.  I got lucky with my wirehair, you cut down the odds getting a Draathar.
I have found a breeder in Nebraska and plan on getting one soon.
I miss my partner.  Best times of my life were spent with that dog.

Offline chucky52

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Re: Drahthaars
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2007, 05:43:37 PM »
Hunted pheasants over a guide's Drathaar. A very good dog who was clearly training the guide (seriously). The guide had a male in the kennel next to the male Drahthaar to mate with a female. The Drahthaar climbed the fence, killed the male, mated the female (seriously). Sorta like a relationship with Hannibal Lecturn, a great doctor; but, watch out. Would I have one? Of course!

Offline Don Fischer

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Re: Drahthaars
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2007, 06:09:03 PM »
Anybody know anything about Drahthaars? Thinking about getting one. TIA.

Question like that your bound to hear from the guy's that love their's. Surprised Nobody jumped in with a bad tale. I guess what I really would like to know is, what is it you want to know about them? Your thinking about getting one, what is holding you up? There's something here your not asking.
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline S.B.

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Re: Drahthaars
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2007, 06:19:49 PM »
The money end and not sure I'm ready for another dog after losing a Brittany after 15 years with him, in February.
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Offline prairiedog555

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Re: Drahthaars
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2007, 08:36:19 AM »
I just talked my partner out of getting an $800 German shorthair.  He originally thought that he was getting a Wirehair, but got it wrong.  I told him to get another Brittany like he had before, it will not do water retrieve but they are good dogs and can usually be had for under $150 around here.  And when did you hear of a Brit being a bad dog, they might not be GREAT but usually pretty good, as with a Draathar.
The deal is that any breed that is bred for show will have bad (non hunting) blood.  You are taking a chance.  Draathars are not allowed to be put in show, only hunting.  That is their purpose and sire and dam must be judged competent hunters or not allowed to breed and carry moniker of Draathar.
That is cutting the odds down as to getting a good hunting dog.

Offline S.B.

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Re: Drahthaars
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2007, 08:51:11 AM »
Draathars are judged on their natural hunting abilities(instinctive hunting abilities), without any commands from owner.
Where did you read where I said Brittanys are bad dogs?
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Offline prairiedog555

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Re: Drahthaars
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2007, 09:34:08 AM »
S.B.,
I was not referencing anything that you wrote, it was a general comment that Brits are usually good dogs.  I have one out in the pen now that I got from the local pound.  Shot a lot of birds over her.  She is around 14-15 now from what my Vet estimates, and not in good shape.  But she had a good nose and staunch on point, but not a great retriever, had to force her to hunt dead, just wanted to find more game to point.  I could live with that. 
But my next dog will be a draathar. 

Offline S.B.

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Re: Drahthaars
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2007, 10:50:20 AM »
That's old for a Brit. They usually only live to 12 or so?
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Offline NHM

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Re: Drahthaars
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2008, 09:04:24 AM »
Actually, the Brittany has the record for the most show championships AND field trial/hunt tests wins of any other hunting breed. I have to say that the DD will give you a much better chance of getting an excellent hunting dog. You just have to do your research and find out how that hunting ability can affect all aspects of that dog's life.

The DD does have show tests but for a DD to be to reproduce and to be able to call the pups a DD, they have to pass rigorous hunt tests and some of those tests cover areas that many in North America do not require, one of them being blood tracking and the other sharpness on fur. This can make a bird dog prospect undesirable as they can be distracted by blood scent and getting that raccoon or skunk.

That said, I would own in a heart beat IF I was able to hunt or train and have the land close by to run them the way they deserve. I have a GSP and he is great. I HAD a griffon (which is a foundation breed of the DD) but I lost her last December. If you are looking for a breed that is not quite as intense but has a very good hunting ability, look at the wirehaired pointing griffon. Not cheap but the purchase cost is the least of your expenses, especially when buying a pointing dog and wanting to train yourself. The griffon will probably be an easier breed to live with in the off season but they like the DD in that they constant stimulation or they get destructive and sneaky. They like to pretend softness which can be hard to decipher if you are not used to them. Most times, a harsh voice will be sufficient reprimand so they an easier touch to train especially compared to a DD.

There are variations in any breed. Make lots of calls, talk to breeders, refine your breed search then REFINE your breeder. You can find your needs if you look at the breeder, then pedigree. Let the breeder choose your pup but really, any pup from a good litter will fit. Many hunting champions were the reject of a great litter.

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Drahthaars
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2008, 10:52:58 AM »
Anybody know anything about Drahthaars? Thinking about getting one. TIA.

Don't know how I missed this thread!  I got one around 38 years ago.  At that time I seem to remember there were only about 1500 registered ones in the whole country (Field Dog Stud Book, not AKC).  Great dog, wonderful companion, great with my (then) young children.  He spent a summer training in Canada with John Rex Gates and lived a long life.  I haven't had a bird dog since.
Richard
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Offline S.B.

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Re: Drahthaars
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2008, 01:19:07 PM »
 How would one go about registering one?
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Offline S.B.

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Re: Drahthaars
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2008, 01:23:54 PM »
Actually, the Brittany has the record for the most show championships AND field trial/hunt tests wins of any other hunting breed. I have to say that the DD will give you a much better chance of getting an excellent hunting dog. You just have to do your research and find out how that hunting ability can affect all aspects of that dog's life.

The DD does have show tests but for a DD to be to reproduce and to be able to call the pups a DD, they have to pass rigorous hunt tests and some of those tests cover areas that many in North America do not require, one of them being blood tracking and the other sharpness on fur. This can make a bird dog prospect undesirable as they can be distracted by blood scent and getting that raccoon or skunk.

That said, I would own in a heart beat IF I was able to hunt or train and have the land close by to run them the way they deserve. I have a GSP and he is great. I HAD a griffon (which is a foundation breed of the DD) but I lost her last December. If you are looking for a breed that is not quite as intense but has a very good hunting ability, look at the wirehaired pointing griffon. Not cheap but the purchase cost is the least of your expenses, especially when buying a pointing dog and wanting to train yourself. The griffon will probably be an easier breed to live with in the off season but they like the DD in that they constant stimulation or they get destructive and sneaky. They like to pretend softness which can be hard to decipher if you are not used to them. Most times, a harsh voice will be sufficient reprimand so they an easier touch to train especially compared to a DD.

There are variations in any breed. Make lots of calls, talk to breeders, refine your breed search then REFINE your breeder. You can find your needs if you look at the breeder, then pedigree. Let the breeder choose your pup but really, any pup from a good litter will fit. Many hunting champions were the reject of a great litter.

Drathars have to be natural hunters(with neither hand or whistle signals) to be able to breed and have a litter? I owned and hunted a Brittany Spaniel for 16 years, ending last January. Best friend I ever had!
"The Original Point and Click Interface was a Smith & Wesson."
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Offline NHM

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Re: Drahthaars
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2008, 07:58:29 AM »
The testing program for breedable DDs is not quite so simple. I have been trying to find out just what tests are required and what scores but no specific luck yet. I do know they are scored on point, search, tracking, retrieving and water work. The timing of the test is to show that the ability of the pup is inherited and not trained. Also, they have to pass certain conformation tests on coat, conformation and bite. They also cannot be aggressive towards people or other dogs. A breeder has to apply for the chance to breed a litter and the sire and dam are approved based on their pedigree and coat type, specifically colour. They don't want two black dogs to breed as it will eventually make black the dominant colour.

http://www.vdd-gna.org/testing_program.php

A DD born in North America can only be registered with VDD so that means AKC tests are not possible. If you get an import from Germany, you can get the dog registered with AKC with some paperwork. If you want to do additional fun things with your dog in the off season, it narrows your venues.

With research, you can find an excellent hunting puppy even of a poodle, getting a DD increases your chances of getting a hunting puppy but don't be scared to look at other breeds that interest you.

Offline AlaskaMagnum

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Re: Drahthaars
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2009, 06:56:51 AM »
This is an old post, but while browsing the internet thought I would reply to get some more info out on my favorite breed.

The testing program for breedable DDs is not quite so simple. I have been trying to find out just what tests are required and what scores but no specific luck yet. I do know they are scored on point, search, tracking, retrieving and water work. The timing of the test is to show that the ability of the pup is inherited and not trained.

The first test is the VJP, a natural ability test.  The pup is tested for gun shyness and is disqualified if it shows this trait.  They are required to search a field, point two birds, tracking of hare, and are judged on cooperation.  Their teeth, eyes, testicles, etc. are also looked at.  Missing teeth, ectopion eyes, missing testicles, etc. will disqualify the dog for breeding.  This test is taken in their first spring of life after whelping (usually 8 month old to 14 month old pups).

That fall they take the HZP test which is quite extensive test.  They are again tested for gun shyness only this time in the water, as the judges feel gun shyness will show in water (when the dog is under more stress) than on land.  They fire two shots right over your dogs head while it is swimming.  The dog must do a water blind, a water mark, and then produce a search of the pond for a wing clipped duck.  All retrieves must be to hand and the dog can only receive one "fetch" command.  After that they must search a field.  Again two points are required, but the dog should hold until the owner flushes.  They then do a 100 yard track and retrieve of a pheasant and a 300 yard track and retrieve of a rabbit.

The final test is the VGP can be taken anytime, and includes everything done in the HZP but also includes some added criteria.  A track of a fox and retrieve to hand is also required as is the retrieve of a fox over an obstacle.  The dog must be steady to the fall, the dog must also do an aged blood track, and there is a steadyness test that is really kind of cool (dog put on sit while a bunch of guys go into the woods shoot, hollar, and make a ruckuss).  The dog must remain calm and quiet through it all.

The VJP and either the HZP or VGP or both are required to be considered for breeding.  The tests cannot be taken infinite times to get a passing score, and all dogs have their test scores published in a yearly book along with any faults for the whole world to see.  All puppies are tatooed before leaving the breeder and the records are meticulously kept back in Germany.  It is a very open information system, which helps keep breeding stock on the high end.

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Also, they have to pass certain conformation tests on coat, conformation and bite. They also cannot be aggressive towards people or other dogs. A breeder has to apply for the chance to breed a litter and the sire and dam are approved based on their pedigree and coat type, specifically colour. They don't want two black dogs to breed as it will eventually make black the dominant colour.

The breed show test is an evaluation of the dog's temperment, and also ensures that the physical and coat characteristics are at least sufficient to do what the dog was bred to do.  Bad bites, missing teeth, nervous, overly aggressive, etc. are disqualifying traits.

After the dog has passed the breed show and the tests, only then will it be approved for breeding stock.  Not all dogs make it.


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A DD born in North America can only be registered with VDD so that means AKC tests are not possible. If you get an import from Germany, you can get the dog registered with AKC with some paperwork. If you want to do additional fun things with your dog in the off season, it narrows your venues.

Cross registering your DD with the AKC is not looked favorably upon by the breed registries.  Breeding your DD to an AKC dog will get you penalized severly.  You can still run AKC events, they just give you a foreign dog number.  You can register with NAVDHA and run your dog in those events as well if doggy games are your thing.

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With research, you can find an excellent hunting puppy even of a poodle, getting a DD increases your chances of getting a hunting puppy but don't be scared to look at other breeds that interest you.

There are good dogs in all registries.  It is just in the DD system, the bad ones are already culled from breeding so you know at a minimum, two rather decent hunting dogs were bred.  No show dogs only are in this registry and honestly, most breeders will make you send them a photocopy of your hunting license prior to selling you a pup.  One of the things you will notice is that there are more male kennel owners than women, which probably relates to the "hunters only" mantra of the DD system.  Many also require you to agree to test the pup at least through the HZP.  This is so the breeders can evaluate their litters.

Price is usually $600 - $900 for a pup, which is really not all that expensive considering what you are getting.  By comparison, a lab pup with similiarly tested parents start at $1200.  Field champion sired pups sometimes start at $3000.