opinions wanted

[Oreducksfan]

I am new  to this site, so please be easy with me. I have been into hand guns for about a year now. I currently have a H&K USP .45acp & .40 S&W
I also have a .357 sig p229 as well as a Glock 19 for my plinker.

My question is this. Living in Oregon, my children are at the age where camping is fun again! Depending upon the time of year, depends where we camp.  What is my best choice of side arm to take for possible run ins with natures hazards? Cougar and black bear would be my biggest worries.  I don't own a revolver in .357 mag so please don't give me this answer!

what type of ammunition should I be packing with which caliber?
I have read about hard cast bullets for penitration, but they dont come in semi auto loads do they?

Your input is gladly accepted

[myronman3]

i live in northern wisconsin and the blackies up here can get quite large.   about  two weeks ago, a car hit one a little ways south from where i live that weighed 442lbs dressed.  now consider that was a spring bear with no fat!   i have all kinds of handguns, from 22lr to 454 casull.   the truth is that when i am out fishing on foot or just bumming,  i carry my 1911 45 kimber.   i aint advocating hunting with it,  but for defense against a blackie or in your case a lion,  any one of those you listed would do the trick.   as for which one specifically,  whichever is your favorite to carry.

[DoubleA]

First and formost, sounds like you need a reason to buy a revolver.  Tell your wife some made up, horrible story of a child being seriously injured by a bear in a state near you.  Buy a 44 mag.  It's the best all around revolver with great choices of ammo for the non-reloader.  Don't buy one of the new super light s&w.  Buy either a s&w or ruger double action and stay under 6 inches for easy carry around the camp site.

If you can't do that, and don't want to keep a rifle in close distance, use whatever pistol you shoot and hit best with..

[Oreducksfan]

Does anyone know anything about the IQ bullet from Augelia ammunition, (I believe is spelled the makers name wrong sorry)

It is a 117 gr. alloy hollow point. 1500 fps 500 me (.45 acp)

It is supposed to determine its target in a split second.(hard=penitration soft= expantion/4 part frag with deep wound channels)

I bought a box at a gun show a week ago. I have not shot them though.
It is a pretty funky looking round with a deep hollowed out cavity, and the same size (mass) as a 230 gr. bullet.  

The distrib told me it will penitrate 8 layers of denium/ 1/2" glass + 12 inches in gel block?

Has any one tried it out yet? On anything big?

Or did I just waste 14 bucks on 20 cool looking rounds?

Be cool

B-man

[Raging480]

From your available guns, choose whatever you feel most comfortable carrying for fast, emergency shooting.  I would load it up with some hot hollowpoints, like Cor-Bon Ammo. or Speer Gold Dot +P ammo.  You are not going for through and through penetration, like a handgun hunter, but more of the "stinging bee" response, like J.J. HACK refers to in his posts on the Bear Hunting forum.  The first few rounds should hopefully slow him down long enough for the rest of the magazine to go to work.

[Questor]

I'll be the oddball here. I'd pick the 40S&W with the truncated cone solids that are commonly available for it.  That would give high velocity, deep penetration, and good tissue destruction at close range.  Alternately, I'd go with the 45 loaded with a controlled expansion hollow point as the first shot and a deeper penetrating bullet for the rest.  I wouldn't rule out ball ammo.

[Zachary]

If you are indeed concerned for the safety of your family, then you should get at least a 44mag with Federal Premium 300 grain cast core ammo.

I just can't, in good conscious, recommend any of the guns he currently has for black bear protection.  I guess we could recommend one in "theory," but not in practice.  Spend some money, get a .44 and have piece of mind with your family.  I have heard too many bad stories about cougers attacking small children.  Do you really want to take your chances with your family?

Zachary

[Majic]

Oreducksfan,
Here's Aquila's site with the advertisement for the load. Some of it sounds suspicious, but who knows.

http://www.france-collection.com/rechargement/resources/aguila/Aguila.htm

[Cabin4]

Based on what guns you already have, I would go withe the 45acp. However, I would use a hard cast load. In the event that you encounter a bear, your likly defense shot will be head on. Your only target will be his head and front shoulders. For this you will need a hard cast load.

Quite honestly I have never purchased hard cast laods for the 45 so I can't even say they are available. I have a local guy here that runs a co called Better Bullets. He makes his own hard cast bullets for the 45 and also reloads if you want him to using your brass. This is the guy I would go to if I was to carry my 45 in bear country. However, I would not carry the 45 I would go with my 357mag with a 200grain hard cast load. A 357mag with a hard cast load is a whole differant gun altogether and in my opinion a step up from my 45.

BP

[Graybeard]

According to those who live in bear country and have much experience with them the best bear protection is your head. Do things the smart not the dumb way. Keep a clean camp. Store food high and out of a bear's reach and not in camp if you are where bears might be a problem. Make enough noise as you walk to let them know you are coming so you don't take them by surprise. Unless you come upon a bear feeding or a mama bear with cubs I think the need for a gun is gonna be really minimal for bear protection. If the time comes when one is needed it is gonna REALLY be needed tho and honestly I'd sure hate to have any of those choices you list if I had to stop a determined charge from a bear.

I think your primary concern will be first human predators and secondarily from Mtn. lion which are getting more and more bold from lack of hunting and increased numbers. They far more than bear are likely to want to use one of your children for a snack. Any of your guns would be pretty good for both human predators and lion.

If it were me with those choices I'd go with the .40 S&W using heavy solids with a flat point I think. They will act much like a hard cast and the wide meplat will do the damage while the heavy weight will help with penetration. If bears weren't in the mix I'd use JHPs instead I think.

GB

[Oreducksfan]

Thank you gentlemen for your insights and thoughts to my question.
From my experience, (though limited) Cougars and diamond backs are the most likely nature hazards I would encounter. (the ones with 2-legs what I have will work fine.)

Has anyone noticed in their area of the country that cougars are getting more brave? (In the high desert areas of central Oregon and Eastern Oregon these cats seem to be getting BIG BRASS ones!)

Isnt regulation grande!

Take care B.

[willis5]

Graybeard has given some great advice... especially about using your head.

The 40 would be your best bet if you are not going to buy another gun. have fun, and I hope you never have to use any of your guns for protection.
Cheers,
willis5

[Lloyd Smale]

lets see first your chance of being attacked by a wild animal in the brush in north america are pretty remote. Leave them alone and theyll leave you alone! Ive shot black bear with a .357 (hunting with dogs) and it did fine as would a .45acp or a .40 with a good hard cast bullet. Your gaining absoultly nothing by going to a .357 as a matter of fact in my opinion your going backwards. I am a firm believer in hard cast bullets the bigger in diameter the better as long as you can get 850+fps out of them they will kill. If you want something more effective go to at least a .41mag and preferably a .44 or .45colt. And shoot the heaviest hard cast bullet with a big metplat you can find. To me a perfect packing gun would be a superblackhawk with a 4 5/8s barrel. Im not a fan of auto pistols but in all honesty the guns you have will take care of bussiness if you can keep a cool head and if you cant a .458 mag wont.

[markc]

I can't speak for any part of the country other than Texas.  Yes according to what I've been reading, and hearing about, the Mt. Lion is definately on the increase in numbers and is moving east.  In W. Tx, especially around or in Big Bend Ranch Park, there are a number of signs posted warning about the Mt. Lions and advising to keep pets and young children right by your side.  Thing is, if one attacks, you likely will not know it until it is on top of you or one of your kids.  GB gave the best advice.  All I would add is to practice for the unlikely event that a big cat grabs you or one of your kids.  
markc

[Duffy]

Greybeards advice is right on the mark, use your head first and be aware of your surroundings. I have some of those Aguila hollow points and would definately NOT use them for dangerous animals. They are made to fragment and aren't heavy enough to penetrate a tough animal like a bear. They are made more for self defence in a home were you don't want them to go through several walls.
I do have a 230 and 200 grain 45 cal LBT mould that cast's a rounded flat nose bullet that penetrates quite well, as in through four walls of an old plastered house. A good 230 flat nose FMJ loaded to the nuts might work too as long as you can hit with it. From what I understand by what some other hunters have said that a couger or some of the other cats arent that hard to kill but I wouldn't want to just wizz one off to find out!