Author Topic: Caliber choice for coyote (Read 2216 times)

azmark · « **on:** March 19, 2007, 09:50:02 AM »

I want a Handi-Rifle for coyote hunting. I'll be in relatively close quarters, so shots will probably be limited to 150 yards or less. I'm considering .22 hornet, .223, or maybe even .243 for versatility. What are pros/cons of these?

aulrich · « **Reply #1 on:** March 19, 2007, 10:06:05 AM »

The hornet could work quite well but but it is not really a 150 yard coyote gun but close, 125 or so those stubby bullets don't carry well. If you want to do anything with the pelt don't bother with the 243 I ran one for a season and it pretty much wrecked them all. The 223 would work just fine, but the 204 ruger would work better with less pelt damage with the right bullet.

Now a 22 hornet converted to k-hornet with a 50 grain spitzer should actually fit the bill dead on, actually I am counting on it, I had one done this winter but I am just starting load dev now. So i'll let you know in a year or so

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #2 on:** March 19, 2007, 10:08:07 AM »

I know MSP RET does alot of yote hunting and he will chime when he gets here. Welcome to the site.

IowaStickbow · « **Reply #3 on:** March 19, 2007, 10:13:10 AM »

I hope your right about the K-Hornet,just bought a used Handi-rifle reamed to k-hornet..planning on shooting it tomorrow.

bigjeepman · « **Reply #4 on:** March 19, 2007, 10:27:11 AM »

azmark ...

I have been hunting those critters for quite a few years now. You asked a good question but for me the answer is easy because I do not save pelts. I use a .243 with Sierra 85gr BTHP and good shot placement means bang/flop. I hunt coyotes on hilly, wooded land with some shots up to 150 to 200 yards.

If pelt saving doesn't interest you, then .223, .22-250, .243, 25-06, etc will do the job. Coyotes are pretty tough animals at times but can be taken with smaller calibers if shot placement is good as in all types of hunting. I know pelt hunters that use the .204 with pretty good success. I do not own a .22-250 so I do not know what kind of pelt damage it will cause. It also depends of course on what kind of bullet you use too.

Good luck ...

azmark · « **Reply #5 on:** March 19, 2007, 10:45:16 AM »

I've been reading a bit about the .204. I read an article in Shooting Times, I think, where a guy took one to Africa and killed hogs and antelope-type critters with it. Sounds like it might even work on small whitetails.

I would like to save pelts. Is .204 ammo much more expensive than .223, or would I need to reload to save money?

bigjeepman · « **Reply #6 on:** March 19, 2007, 10:53:29 AM »

You need to reload so you can shoot better ammo more ....

aulrich · « **Reply #7 on:** March 19, 2007, 11:29:55 AM »

223 cheaper than 204, yes and no, yes there is tones of cheap blaster ammo but loads using v-max or other high end bullet are about the same.

But you likley still want to reload I don't think there is a factory load using the 35 gr berger (the current most popular fur bullet) but I am not sure, maybe hsm from cabelas has them, I have only every bought 1 box of factory so I don't pay much attention. The 45 gr sp from Hornady is a new player in the fur game but I have not heard much about it as of yet, I would try them but none have made it north of the border yet.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** March 19, 2007, 12:09:52 PM »

You can find pretty much anything you want to know about the 204 Ruger at 204Ruger.com.

Tim

http://204ruger.com/

http://www.rugerhunting.com/forum/

MSP Ret · « **Reply #9 on:** March 19, 2007, 12:27:34 PM »

azmark, if you are not a reloader and your finances are not unlimited, and you want to shoot at 150 yards and beyond I would suggest the .223. If you can keep the shots within 100 yards the .22 Mag with the proper ammo would also work for you. With the criteria you have given I say the only logical choice is the .223 Remington...Good Luck....<><....

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #10 on:** March 19, 2007, 12:44:11 PM »

The 204 is not meant for deer period. Even small ones. I feel that even if you would hand load for the 204 that you could not come up with a good White tail deer round. There are far better choices for deer. Just my 2 cents on that matter.

Quote from: azmark on March 19, 2007, 10:45:16 AM

I've been reading a bit about the .204. I read an article in Shooting Times, I think, where a guy took one to Africa and killed hogs and antelope-type critters with it. Sounds like it might even work on small whitetails.

I would like to save pelts. Is .204 ammo much more expensive than .223, or would I need to reload to save money?

ro · « **Reply #11 on:** March 19, 2007, 04:28:28 PM »

i have hunted coyotes for years, killed alot of them, if you are just riding around 223 is ok, i have shot them with 223 out to 100 yds pls, some drop down, some run, i dont go looking for them we have so many here, my best coyote rifle is a handi in 30-06 with bushnell banner 3X9X40, this old rifle has killed many a deer and coyote, i just leave them where they drop, TIP if you can hunt land by a railroad or close to a railroad when the train blows the horn the yotes will go wild howling, killed many after the train passed thur.

BANG_OW · « **Reply #12 on:** March 19, 2007, 04:35:16 PM »

. 45-70 gets it done without even a YIP! You have to have good camo and sit real still, with a battery powered decoy about 35 yds out. Don't use this round if you want to keep the hide.

Pharmboy · « **Reply #13 on:** March 19, 2007, 06:13:30 PM »

I lived in AZ 13 years before I moved to OK and called in more coyotes than I killed. That is a rush. I think a .223 would be the way to go for a 150 yd shot if you can get it. At 150 yds their probably on their way in and figuring out the final approach. At about 80-100 yards they usually stop and are downwind at this time and take a sniff and that is when the action usually begins. I am living in Oklahoma now and we like to call them into shot gun range but they are not always willing so we take a 3 and 1/2 inch 12ga pardner for the up close and personal and 22 Mag autoloader for the 80-100 yard tactical shot.

Pharmboy

azmark · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2007, 05:18:23 AM »

Quote from: ro on March 19, 2007, 04:28:28 PM

i have hunted coyotes for years, killed alot of them, if you are just riding around 223 is ok, i have shot them with 223 out to 100 yds pls, some drop down, some run, i dont go looking for them we have so many here, my best coyote rifle is a handi in 30-06 with bushnell banner 3X9X40, this old rifle has killed many a deer and coyote, i just leave them where they drop, TIP if you can hunt land by a railroad or close to a railroad when the train blows the horn the yotes will go wild howling, killed many after the train passed thur.

Wouldn't a 30-06 completely ruin the hide? I know the 30-06 is supposed to be the most versatile caliber there is, but wouldn't it just about blow the dog in half? Also, I had looked at bulet choices and don't recall seeing many frangible bullets in.30 cal.

azmark · « **Reply #15 on:** March 20, 2007, 05:26:42 AM »

Quote from: MSP Ret on March 19, 2007, 12:27:34 PM

azmark, if you are not a reloader and your finances are not unlimited, and you want to shoot at 150 yards and beyond I would suggest the .223. If you can keep the shots within 100 yards the .22 Mag with the proper ammo would also work for you. With the criteria you have given I say the only logical choice is the .223 Remington...Good Luck....<><....

I've actually just started to reload. I got a Lee Classic Loader for my GP100 to try to keep costs down. I'm starting to get the hang of it. I had thought about doing the same thing for whatever rifle I get. It's interesting that you mentioned .22 Mag; that was what I wanted to get initially, but I'm being told that it's underpowered for coyote and therefore would be less than humane. Not that I feel sorry for those chicken thieves, but I just don't feel right about having one suffering for days before dying. That's why I won't use my 10/22.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #16 on:** March 20, 2007, 06:10:07 AM »

If you can shoot halfway well, and PICK YOUR SHOTS and HIT WHERE YOU AIM the .22 Mag is fine for coyotes out to 100 yards.,There are those that say even the .223 is not enough. Like hunting anything good shot placement is the key and much more important than a powerful caliber, gut shoot a coyote with a .223 or a 30-06 and he will most likely run off, shoot him in the ear or the heart with a .22 Mag and you have a dead coyote. My favorite light weight coyote gun is my NEF Sportster in .22 Mag with a standard contour barrel and a Survivor stock, I have a 2x7 scope on it now but have had a Red Dot and also a 2.5 shotgun scope on it, it wears what suits me at the time. It shoots 1 MOA groups with Winchester Silver and Black box ammo as well as CCI Maxi Max ammo. It does not like the 33 & 35 grain super fast .22 Mag ammo though, groups open up to about 2 to 2.25 inches.
Like most hunting shot placement and choosing when to shot is key....<><....

Snowshoe · « **Reply #17 on:** March 20, 2007, 06:19:58 AM »

As mentioned, the 204 or .223 will work great. I used to use a .22-250 and found that anything inside of 200 yards was ripped up bad. I personaly am looking at a .223 for my next rifle, but if hides where not important, I would go for the .243.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 20, 2007, 06:32:19 AM »

I had exceptional luck with my 270's and the 90 grain Speer bullets and IMR 4350 powder...You can make a very mild shooting load with this combination...I've even taken them with Hornady 140 BT's as well for those wide open prairie type shots...

Mac

azmark · « **Reply #19 on:** March 20, 2007, 07:03:29 AM »

Quote from: MSP Ret on March 20, 2007, 06:10:07 AM

If you can shoot halfway well, and PICK YOUR SHOTS and HIT WHERE YOU AIM the .22 Mag is fine for coyotes out to 100 yards.,There are those that say even the .223 is not enough. Like hunting anything good shot placement is the key and much more important than a powerful caliber, gut shoot a coyote with a .223 or a 30-06 and he will most likely run off, shoot him in the ear or the heart with a .22 Mag and you have a dead coyote. My favorite light weight coyote gun is my NEF Sportster in .22 Mag with a standard contour barrel and a Survivor stock, I have a 2x7 scope on it now but have had a Red Dot and also a 2.5 shotgun scope on it, it wears what suits me at the time. It shoots 1 MOA groups with Winchester Silver and Black box ammo as well as CCI Maxi Max ammo. It does not like the 33 & 35 grain super fast .22 Mag ammo though, groups open up to about 2 to 2.25 inches.
Like most hunting shot placement and choosing when to shot is key....<><....

I have no aversion to going to the range to practice. A couple weeks ago I set up my bullet box with targets and practiced with the stock sights on my 10/22. At about 50 yards from a sitting position I was able to put 3-shot groups into about an inch. It had been a long time since I shot very much. Do you think with a scope and some more practice I might be able to place decent shots out to 100 yards?

trotterlg · « **Reply #20 on:** March 20, 2007, 07:16:31 PM »

The only real round for a Coyote is a 17 Remington with 25 gr Berger non MEF's doing about 4,100 fps. Anyone serious about Coyotes and pelts knows this. Everything else is second best or less, even the .204 guys blow up pelts form time to time no matter what they say. The only exception may be the new 17 Remington Fireball, but the jury is still out on that one. The .17 rimfires will let them run away more often than not. Larry

MSP Ret · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2007, 01:25:43 AM »

azmark, if your doing 3 shot 1" groups with iron sights from a sitting position I would think with a good scope and the right ammo, as long as the gun could do it you could definitely do 1" groups at 100 yards...thats good shooting my friend..congratulations....<><....

azmark · « **Reply #22 on:** March 21, 2007, 03:26:50 AM »

Quote from: MSP Ret on March 21, 2007, 01:25:43 AM

azmark, if your doing 3 shot 1" groups with iron sights from a sitting position I would think with a good scope and the right ammo, as long as the gun could do it you could definitely do 1" groups at 100 yards...thats good shooting my friend..congratulations....<><....

Thanks for the compliment. I figured you would be a good objective judge of marksmanship being a retired LEO.

joshco84 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 21, 2007, 01:28:47 PM »

i would agree with trotter on the 17 rem, but that is a custom chambering in a handi unfortunately. I would personally choose the 204 if saving pelts, if not then anything from 223 up would work great. Might even look in to a 7mm 08, i know you can get pretty light bullets in 7mm caliber. I think i remember an 80 or 90 grainer at midway IIRC. I personally am going to get some range time with my 204 and then go shoot some coyotes with it hopefully. If you like i can report performance on it monday after i get back.

josh

navylawdog · « **Reply #24 on:** March 21, 2007, 04:40:16 PM »

Azmark,

The guys are right that the .204 and .223 are always good choices. I personally prefer my .22-250 but I have a lot more room to work with so I tend to take longer shots. The job can be done quite well with a .22 mag though. Keep the shots somewhat close and like they said shot placement is key. I have heard of people anchoring them with .17 hmr's at close range but that would all depend on your calling skills if you could get them to come that close. Also the .30-06 would be alright as long as you could find a box of accelerator ammo. I don't know if they even make that anymore though. Maybe some of the guys could enlighten us on that.

Navylawdog

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #25 on:** March 21, 2007, 05:07:02 PM »

I've taken coyotes out to 380 yds.,but its better to stay inside 300 yds. Any thing past 300 I use a 22 250 or the best I have is the 220 Swift.(1 was 665 yds. ) I use the 40 gr. Vmax's in the 223 and they don't exit,but it drops the coyote on the spot.I use the 40 gr. BT's in the Swift at 4200 fps. and it still exits at 300 yds. ,but they also drop on the spot. Hope this helps. Digger

Couger · « **Reply #26 on:** March 21, 2007, 10:52:06 PM »

150 yards? Shoot the .223 and be done with worrying about it! Get either the 22 or 24inch HB and the ammo the gun will shoot well. Then go bag some 'dogs.

Spanky · « **Reply #27 on:** March 26, 2007, 04:21:21 PM »

.223 bull barrel Handi does the trick for me

MZ5 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 26, 2007, 06:25:53 PM »

OK, I think you've got your answer, but I had to tell this short story about coyote hunting: One morning a former friend and I went out with his BIL looking for coyotes. The BIL is a decent fellow who had a scoped .22-250. His first shot of the morning was up a steep hill at about 100-125 yards, which he estimated to be a little over 400 yards. Never was sure how he figured that. A little while later we saw what I believe was the same coyote at about 30 yards. We got out of the pickup and the rifle was handed to my former friend for a shot. Astoundingly, he hit the coyote (who was holding dead still staring at us broadside-on) in the hindquarter and nearly blew his whole back end off. The coyote was understandably upset and began spinning in circles trying to attack/bite whatever it was that had bit him in the hind leg. Fortunately, the BIL took the rifle from the fool and killed the creature. Now lest you think the rifle or scope was the issue, the BIL and I both fired the rifle later at his farm and each put 3 shots into a dime-size hole. And lest you think the fool intended to torment or torture the coyote (which would not have been completely outside of his normal lack of character), I know from experience that that was his very best effort at ~30 yards.

The point is to reiterate the fact that a .22-250 is vastly more than enough for coyotes while simultaneously pointing out in as clear relief as I have ever seen in my life that poor shot placement simply cannot be covered up.

Myself, I'd use a .223 because plinking ammo is cheaper than dirt as far as centerfires go, but then I'd not likely be saving the hides.

ro · « **Reply #29 on:** March 26, 2007, 07:44:47 PM »

azmark, yes you are right, a 30-06 150 gr. core-lock will blow the yote in half, we have so many of them here there is no market for the pelts, most people just leave them in the woods, i have killed 3-4 a day deer hunting many a time, they run in packs and den up in the sides of big hills, i guess the fur or pelts are worth something but not around here.