Author Topic: 8mm Mauser trouble - need help  (Read 1173 times)

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Offline Doctor Sam

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8mm Mauser trouble - need help
« on: May 14, 2003, 06:48:02 PM »
Gentlemen: I have tried using the 16g of 2400 "Universal Load" recommended by C. E. Harris with the 170g PB bullet in my VZ24.  It shot all over the place.  Same with a very good Turkish M38.  Worked up to 20g with no satisfactory results.  New Rem cases FL resized with Alcan primers.  My arthritis is demanding cast bullet loads for all my military rifles.

I would appreciate the benefit of your experience using cast bullets in the 8mm military rifles.  Please tell me what works for you.
Thanks.
Doctor Sam
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Offline Leftoverdj

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8mm Mauser trouble - need help
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2003, 04:01:42 AM »
Doc,

Give us some more info on that bullet. It's more likely to be the source of your problems than the powder.

Since it's a PB bullet, you might wanna try working down rather than up. I'd scrub those barrels since they are now quite likely to be leaded and start with 12 grains of Unique.
It is the duty of the good citizen to love his country and hate his gubmint.

Offline richp41

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8mm Mauser trouble - need help
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2003, 09:09:05 AM »
Sam- I shoot thousands of lead bullets each year and the 8mm is generally pretty good. Here's my approach:
1.Barrel must be totally free of copper fouling.
2.Bullets absolutely must be sized equal to or .001" over measured bore diameter. No undersize allowed and all are gas checked.
3. 16.0 grs of SR4759 works best in all my Mausers.
4. Seat bullets to engage rifling slightly.
5. Follow thru on each shot. Bullets have a longer residency time in the barrel and can be thrown off between trigger release and bullet exit.

Last week I fired this load in a K98 anf 10 shots went into 2.5" and 9 of the 10 were inside 1.5"-- at 100 yds with issue sights. My 03A3 and Mosin Nagant M39 regularly do better than that but I've just started working with a new 8mm 205 gr bullet and hope to make the Mausers do better. Most Mauser bores are oversize and my group of rifles runs from .3235" to .3285" and commercial bullets generally are too small. Rich

Offline Nobade

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8mm Mauser trouble - need help
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2003, 04:10:07 PM »
OK, lemme add my 2 cents. I size rifle bullets to fit the throat, and don't care what the bore and groove diameter is. (as long as the nose isn't too big to chamber in the case of bore riding bullets.) Some rifles can't chamber a round with a throat fitted bullet seated in the case. Those get traded off quickly. With all the rest, as long as the bore is reasonably smooth and doesn't flare out toward the muzzle you should be able to find something that works. Presently I have only one 8MM, a Yugo M48. It takes .326" bullets, I shoot either a custom 240gr. NEI borerider or the standard Lee bullet, which ends up right at .326. Best load so far is IMR 4383 at 2100 fps with the  NEI bullet, coated with Lee tumble lube and gas checked. Groups are incredibly small, much better than with jacketed ammo and about as good as I can see with iron sights. If you don't know how to measure throats and want to, ask here and you'll get lots of advice.
"Give me a lever long enough, and a place to stand, and I'll break the lever."

Offline Doctor Sam

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Help 8mm
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2003, 07:58:30 PM »
Thanks to all for your comments/suggestions, I think you are on to something here.  I slugged the bore on my VZ24 and ended up with .318 and .326.  Miked the bullet and it is .323.  They will make good fluxing material.  I would like to buy some cast bullets before I buy the mold and dies.  Where can I purchase the lee bullet ready to load at .326 diameter?  What is the powder you recommended, the IMR 4383?  Never seen it before. The bores are lead free and copper free and ready to go again.  
And no, I do not know how to determine the throat diameter.  Please advise.  Saw a thread on a short throat on a 98/22.  Owner had reamed it out.  I admit that I don't know what that is about either.  You guys educate me; I'm willing to learn.
Sam
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Offline Nobade

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8mm Mauser trouble - need help
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2003, 02:36:38 AM »
I think I'd ask Billy Marr about the bullets, he can probably fix you up. As for throat dia., just take a fired case and fill it with lead. Chamber it, drop a pure lead slug in the muzzle that will fit down the bore (a smaller caliber bullet, or fishing sinker works well) and upset it into the throat using a close to bore diameter mild steel rod. You don't want it to be too small, or it'll bounce around that scratch the barrel. Deburr the ends of course. Hit it with a heavy hammer until it bounces and you can feel the slug is fully formed to the throat. Open the action, extract the case, and carefully push the slug out. You now have an impression of the throat, so you can check it for diameter and length.
As for 7383 powder, it's used in the 50 spotter round. Not commonly available, but you can get it from Pat's Reloading. Don't have the url but a google search should turn them up. It's dirt cheap (like $2/pound) and works well for many medium bore cast bullet loads. Burns about like 4350, but is way bulkier.
Keep experimenting, and I'm sure you'll find 8MM happiness once you get the combination right!
"Give me a lever long enough, and a place to stand, and I'll break the lever."

Offline waksupi

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8mm Mauser trouble - need help
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2003, 05:05:09 PM »
You should be able to lap your mold out 3-4 thousandths without too much trouble.

Offline rob_helms

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8mm Mauser trouble - need help
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2003, 05:31:27 PM »
Here is the data I worked up with 2400,WWprimers,180gn plain based cast.

12.0gn 2400 1163fps

13.0gn 2400 1230fps

14.0gn 2400 1410fps

All these out of an 18" barrel.
Rob Helms