Author Topic: .44 magnum range work (Read 3044 times)

mag41vance · « **on:** March 20, 2007, 03:01:33 AM »

I just got my .44 magnum barrel, and was glad to see it is standard rifling.
My first range test showed some potential. 3 shots @ 50 yards .663" with
20 gr WC820 and 240 gr JHP WLP primers.

I'm going to test some SOLO 4100 and H-110 today with the 240 XTP.

Any help on the best loads in the NEF .44 mag would be appreciated.

myarmor · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2007, 05:27:54 AM »

Is this a new 44 barrel from the factory?
If so thats great if they have fixed the overbore.

-Aaron

Ranger J · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2007, 05:45:12 AM »

Have you slugged your barrel? Do you know what size it is? The barrel I had was .432 and the only thing it would shoot anywhere close to right was Hornady XTPs. I ended up selling it and got a Marlin 1894 in .44 mag. Found out it too is oversized but not as much as the Handi so will shoot .430 and .432 bullets well. The only problem with it is that it is new and already has the Marlin Jam problem. I’ll take it to a gunsmith today and also have a better recoil pad put on it. It would be great if the Handi’s have corrected some the problems with their .44s. Keep us posted
RJ

pagris · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2007, 07:19:27 AM »

Could someone please clarify as to what exactly the issue is with the 44 magnum barrels? I am not up on this and the current search function is rather limited. Thanks in advance.

mag41vance · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2007, 07:47:34 AM »

Quote from: Ranger J on March 20, 2007, 05:45:12 AM

Have you slugged your barrel? Do you know what size it is? The barrel I had was .432 and the only thing it would shoot anywhere close to right was Hornady XTPs. I ended up selling it and got a Marlin 1894 in .44 mag. Found out it too is oversized but not as much as the Handi so will shoot .430 and .432 bullets well. The only problem with it is that it is new and already has the Marlin Jam problem. I’ll take it to a gunsmith today and also have a better recoil pad put on it. It would be great if the Handi’s have corrected some the problems with their .44s. Keep us posted
RJ

I have not slugged it, but have tried the 240 gr xtp's.
Solo 4100 worked best so far with just one load tested with the 4100. ( 20 gr with WLP primers) Pressure signs were less than the H-110 loads showed.
4 loads with H-110 were not ones I would rest on or care to repeat. The SOLO 4100 will get a variety of loads to see how it works over the entire range of charges. The data I'm using is between AA#9 and W-296

d_hiker · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2007, 10:59:50 AM »

Quote from: Ranger J on March 20, 2007, 05:45:12 AM

Have you slugged your barrel? Do you know what size it is?

Last time I tried to slug someone I got hurt.

I am new at this, how do you slug a barrel? I assume that it has to do with pushing something through the barrel and then measuring it.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2007, 11:39:30 AM »

Bore slugging is simple, just takes a little prep and the right stuff...

Use Size 10 soft lead egg sinkers for .270, 7mm, and .30 Calibers, Size 9 for use .338, .348, 38/.357, and 35 Calibers, and Size 8
for .41, .44, .45, and .475 Calibers.

Make sure they're soft lead and NOT the non-lead sinkers.

I like to "pancake" the slug between the dowels, one at the muzzle and one near the throat, then push it out the near end, that way you'll know if the muzzle is bigger or smaller than the rest of the bore.

Tim

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm

d_hiker · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2007, 06:45:28 PM »

Thank you, the link you gave it explains it very well. I'll have to pick up some sinkers and dowel and give it a try.

xhare · « **Reply #8 on:** March 21, 2007, 02:30:46 AM »

Its "Katie bar the door" if they truely have those 44 magnum barrels worked out. I know I want either a barrel or whole rifle. Maybe they are using the same tooling as the 444 Marlin barrels.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #9 on:** March 21, 2007, 03:47:05 AM »

Quote from: pagris on March 20, 2007, 07:19:27 AM

Could someone please clarify as to what exactly the issue is with the 44 magnum barrels? I am not up on this and the current search function is rather limited. Thanks in advance.

Most if not all of the .44 Mag barrels in the past have been "overbored" or bored out to somewhere between .431 and larger diameter, larger than acceptable for the diameter of the round, both in factory ammo and most available .44 caliber bullets, the bullets did not stabilize well and the accuracy really suffered. The only way to get acceptable accuracy in those barrels is to use the largest available bullet diameter and loading heavy loads to obdurate (spelling?) the bullets (swell to fill the rifling). Light loads and factory loads gave poor and unacceptable accuracy. The barrels are virtually worthless unless you load to high levels, at that point however they seemed to shoot OK and some members here that load the factory barrels hot and those that have rechamberegd thier .44 Mags with a reamer to .445 Mag and load a powerful reload have success and seem satisfied with it, but as a facory gun with a factory load it is not accurate. H&R/NEF (Marlin really) has not only refused to correct the error they refuse to admit it exists or even comment on it for the last couple of years. There have been a couple (and I think it has only been 2 possibly) members who have reported that the bores in thier new .44's have slugged out at .430 or .431. If that is true it is a good sign, and a good start but of course H&R/NEF (Marlin really) still refuses any comment. It is my belief that such a grevious error in production should compel the company to replace all those defective .44 caliber barrels that were produced, and they should replace them for free. I am sue also that that will never happen. If H&R starts to produce .44 barrels that measure at .429 or even at .430 I will buy one, but not before....<><....

Ranger J · « **Reply #10 on:** March 21, 2007, 03:57:49 AM »

Buy a .44 mag barrel that shoots .429 bullets accurately? Youbetja!! It would be really nice if it were .429 bore and 1 in 20 twist. A barrel like that would make several of my other guns either expendable or closet queens.
RJ

pagris · « **Reply #11 on:** March 21, 2007, 06:59:14 AM »

MSP Ret: Thanks for the info - between you and Quick and a few other good men (and women?), we are all going to know these Handi's better than the factory workers! Thanks again.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #12 on:** March 21, 2007, 12:46:03 PM »

Quote from: d_hiker on March 20, 2007, 10:59:50 AM

Quote from: Ranger J on March 20, 2007, 05:45:12 AM
Have you slugged your barrel? Do you know what size it is?

Last time I tried to slug someone I got hurt.

next time, HIT 'EM FROM BEHIND!

ss'

WyrTwister · « **Reply #13 on:** April 23, 2007, 12:18:51 PM »

Quote from: Ranger J on March 20, 2007, 05:45:12 AM

Have you slugged your barrel? Do you know what size it is? The barrel I had was .432 and the only thing it would shoot anywhere close to right was Hornady XTPs. I ended up selling it and got a Marlin 1894 in .44 mag. Found out it too is oversized but not as much as the Handi so will shoot .430 and .432 bullets well. The only problem with it is that it is new and already has the Marlin Jam problem. I’ll take it to a gunsmith today and also have a better recoil pad put on it. It would be great if the Handi’s have corrected some the problems with their .44s. Keep us posted
RJ

I have a Marlin .44 Mag . It likes round nose cast bullets . SWC's do not feed too well .

But I am not aware of any other jamming problems ?

Wyr
God bless

BRL · « **Reply #14 on:** April 26, 2007, 02:43:51 PM »

Does anyone have any experience shooting .430-.432 cast bullets in their "overbored" handi? I see some nice cast bullets at Beartooth that measure all the way up to .432. They seem to be readily available and I am most interested in cast shooting for the .44 anyway.

Thanks!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** April 26, 2007, 02:49:01 PM »

That's one of the prime suspects for shooting in the 44Mag Handi, slug your bore and see whatcha need, then order accordingly.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,66563.msg404552.html#msg404552

Gunsmith 01 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 27, 2007, 03:13:07 AM »

OK folks let's get this straight on the "oversize bore" issue. The Sporting Arms and Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI)uses two different bore specs. for 44 magnum rifles and pistols. They are as follows:

Rifle:
Bore- .424 +/- .001
Groove- .431 +/- .001

Pistol:
Bore- .417 +/- .001
Groove- .429 +/- .001

You may not like it but Marlin is following the standards set for the industry so I don't believe that they have to admit to any fault here. The only disagreement I have is on rate of twist. I would like to see 1/20 on rifles but again SAAMI says it should be 1/38.
Now, why are some tighter than others. They probably start with rifling broaches at the max of .432. As they wear, they can be resharpened several times before they get to the min. of .430 and throw away a 1200-1500 tool. So you see where the variation occurs. Just ask for a barrel at the end of the tool life.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #17 on:** April 27, 2007, 06:01:36 AM »

That's really too bad they have to do it that way, far, far too many unsatisfied 44mag owners up until just lately. It's pretty bad that the only way to get them to shoot well is use oversized cast bullet, the guy that wants to shoot factory jacketed ammo is SOL. $:-\$

Tim

d_hiker · « **Reply #18 on:** April 27, 2007, 06:46:36 AM »

Quote from: Gunsmith 01 on April 27, 2007, 03:13:07 AM

OK folks let's get this straight on the "oversize bore" issue. The Sporting Arms and Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI)uses two different bore specs. for 44 magnum rifles and pistols.

What is the reasoning behind having two different specs. for the same cartridge? Are the specs. different for .357 Mag pistols and rifles?

MSP Ret · « **Reply #19 on:** April 27, 2007, 03:34:41 PM »

GOOD question!!!....<><....

Roudy · « **Reply #20 on:** April 27, 2007, 06:03:14 PM »

My editorial 2 cents about the SAMMI specs and the Handi barrel dimensions.

I have never seen any 44 magnum cartridges that were sized specifically for rifles or specifically for pistols. Someone has blundered!

While NEF, or Marlin, may claim that they were producing barrels to the SAMMI specs and all the while knowing (?) that their customers were unsatisfied with the result is still a blunder on the part their engineering folks.

I'm an engineer and feel that a design engineer to live with an oversize bore and know (?) that it doesn't work then simply pointing to the SAMMI specs and say, "It's not my fault, it's the SAMMI spec" just ain't right.

Sorry for venting, I just have a low tolerance for poor engineering, especially when it results in poor customer satisfaction. From what I've read at this site this problem has existed for quite some time, fortunately they may have fixed it. The folks at SAMMI need to get their stuff together too.

Roudy

Roudy

Ten Ring · « **Reply #21 on:** April 28, 2007, 07:40:01 AM »

Welcome to the modern times, it's all part of the ISO revolution if you screwup the same way all of the time it's OK
Jim

BRL · « **Reply #22 on:** April 28, 2007, 08:11:33 AM »

I'm an idiot when it comes to engineering. But, a .44 mag is .429! A .44 mag is .429! Don't most of the factory bullet/ammo makers make a bullet/load based on the fact that a stock .44 mag is .429? Why would anyone (gunmaker) deviate unless a customer has a request for a custom gun? I can understand someone customizing THEIR gun for their needs and using a custom bullet to fit THEIR needs, but shouldn't factory, stock .44 magnum barrels be....you guessed it...429?

Again, I really am not in my place when talking about engineering...nor guns past a casual user phase. So forgive me if I am barking up the wrong tree. I am just using common sense, of which I may not have, in regard to this topic.

Thanks!

gomerdog · « **Reply #23 on:** April 28, 2007, 07:09:11 PM »

Last August I received my 44 barrel a couple of weeks before opening day of antelope season. I had a doe tag, so I decided why not use it. I tried a few loads with hard cast bullets from Beartooth, and finally got the 265 grain gas checked bullets to shoot okay, but I knew I'd have to get close and use a good rest. I did not try any jacketed bullets. I did not get close enough to any the first weekend, and I really didn't have the confidence that I like, so the weekend I used a Marlin 336A with the new Leverevolutions to take a doe at little over 100 yards.

This evening was the first time I've shot it since then. This time I was using some loads I had loaded for my Ruger SRH years ago: 300 grain Hornady XTP's with 22.5 grains of H110, crimped to the rear cannelure (spelling?). I was pleasantly surprised when 5 rounds went into a nice group of about an inch and a half. I also had some 300 grain Speer FN's with the same powder charge that didn't group nearly as well, about 3 inches.

With all the negative comments about this barrel on this site and others, I had been wondering if I was ever going to find a load that I could shoot with confidence. One nice group doesn't make it a perfect load, but it shows promise.

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #24 on:** April 29, 2007, 05:09:45 PM »

Gomerdog thats the exact load my 44 mag.Handi liked when it was still just a 44 mag.( its a 445 supermag now) I hav'nt shot it with 44 mag ammo since I rechambered it to 445 but the barrel with the .432 bore will shoot good with maxed out loads in the 445 supermag. Digger

Ranger J · « **Reply #25 on:** April 30, 2007, 03:19:44 AM »

Hornady bullets with a full load of H110 were the only bullets that would come close to grouping in the .44 mag barrel I used to have. Has anyone actually slugged a ‘new’ .44 barrel or checked the twist?

RJ

gomerdog · « **Reply #26 on:** April 30, 2007, 01:22:33 PM »

I haven't slugged mine. I know it's simple, but I have a hard time beating a sinker through a perfectly good bore. I don't trust myself to do it properly. It has an ejector, so I'm assuming it's one of the old barrels.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #27 on:** April 30, 2007, 01:33:03 PM »

You don't need to beat it thru the bore, just pancake it between dowels, it will fill the bore, do one near the muzzle, one near the throat. If you think that's an issue, you'd better not be pushing jacketed bullets thru it at 1500-1700fps with 35-40kcup pressure behind it!!

Just be sure to use a #8 all lead egg sinker, not one of the non-lead that are our there.

Tim

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm

Coffee_Boy · « **Reply #28 on:** May 02, 2007, 11:18:56 AM »

Quote from: Gunsmith 01 on April 27, 2007, 03:13:07 AM

Just ask for a barrel at the end of the tool life.

Or, just don't ask for a barrel, since they obviously stink.

edited by Tim