Author Topic: coach gun double rifle? (Read 10220 times)

superdown · « **on:** March 20, 2007, 07:16:07 PM »

let me begine by apologizing that this may be a dumb question but i was thinking would it be possible for a shotgun bore to be rifled ? I ask this because i was thinking i would like to take a 12 or 20 gauge coach gun some high brass shells and some black powder and have like a mini classic double rifle maybe mount some open sights on the rib. thanx superdown

Mikey · « **Reply #1 on:** March 21, 2007, 12:19:49 AM »

superdown: I can go you one better, and much easier. I like the idea of a double barrelled coach gun but you don't need rifling in your barrel to accomplish that.

MCA Sports - (at the same web address) manufactures chamber adapters for shotguns, in pistol and rifle calibers. I believe you could turn your double barrelled coach gun into a side by side 45-70 or possibly any other caliber. MCA Sports actually makes a chamber and rifled barrel section, about 10"" long I believe, tha fits right into your shotgun chambers. You really have to get to this fellow's website to see what he can do.

I have a SxS 20 ga IGA Coach Gun and was thinking the same thing. HTH. Mikey.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #2 on:** March 21, 2007, 05:32:02 AM »

Rifled barrels have both a bore and a groove diameter. The bore is reamed under size for the intended caliber so that when grooves are cut they bring it up to bullet diameter. Starting with a smoothbore that is already full bullet diameter and then adding the rifling grooves would require an oddball oversize bullet to fill the grooves. Then you also have the problem of how to regulate the two barrels to shoot to the same point of aim, that rarely happens by accident. Barrel liners of full length will add a lot of weight and short chamber inserts loose a lot of velocity and you still have the problem of regulation of the barrels.
Before Remington highjacked the Russian guns, EAA used to offer a reasonably priced 47/70 insert for their 12 ga. coachguns, but I don't know if they had some easy way to regulate the insert to shoot to point of aim and they were heavy.
I'd suggest you try some shotgun slugs. With such a wide variety of slugs on the market today the chances are very good that you may find a slug which shoots well enough from your smoothbore out to 100 yards. Or, wait for Remington to bring out the long promised 45/70 double rifle, but don't hold your breath.

superdown · « **Reply #3 on:** March 21, 2007, 08:13:03 AM »

thanx for the ideas guys i also hope rem brings out that 45-70 double that would be real handy with the hornady ammo.

moxgrove · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2007, 04:58:50 PM »

eaa still has liners for the 20 in. coach guns 2 3/4 that you can screw in and adjust for a 45/70 double gun

coyotejoe · « **Reply #5 on:** March 24, 2007, 05:29:09 AM »

If I recall correctly, those are only for 12 gauge guns with screw-in choke tubes, it is a threaded muzzle bushing which holds the tube in the gun. They add about 1 1/2 to 2 pounds per insert so would make a very heavy double gun.

moxgrove · « **Reply #6 on:** March 24, 2007, 07:29:16 AM »

yup, heavy indeed. But I bet it really tames recoil.

Lone Star · « **Reply #7 on:** March 25, 2007, 03:28:56 PM »

I believe the best way to go would be as suggested, use 12 gauge slug loads. Rifling is not needed to have decent slug accuracy at close to moderate ranges, although it does help. Modern ammo like Federal's TruBall slugs is high power and accurate enough for defense against man or animal. Federal claims 4 moa, and I doubt that inserts in .45-70 would be much better.

.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #8 on:** March 26, 2007, 04:07:57 AM »

I've found good accuracy from a couple of smoothbores with slugs but not the Federal True Balls. I tried them in my 12 gauge Winchester pump with open sights and the 20 gauge barrel of my Savage M24 and in neither case was the True Ball as accurate as other slugs previously tried. As with any product the "claims" often don't reflect the "results".

deltecs · « **Reply #9 on:** April 20, 2007, 04:53:54 PM »

Look at Cabela's for the Kodiak Double Rifle. I think you'll find what your are looking for at a price a lot less than the conversion.

Boxhead · « **Reply #10 on:** April 21, 2007, 05:27:20 PM »

I had the same thoughts but, fortunately, landed on this Ugartechea SxS slug gun 4 or 5 years ago. It is regulated beautifully with the Rottweil Brenneke M.P. load (after trying many) that drives a 1 oz (440 gr) slug at 1500 fps. It will throw multiple pairs inside 2 1/2" at 50 meters right on top of the front sight and has done its job on deer and hogs. I may take it bear hunting next month here in Alberta. I have only seen one other but I would search hard and try to find one. It is a fun gun.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #11 on:** April 22, 2007, 11:46:07 AM »

That looks like an elegant solution but I have no idea where to look for one.

S.S. · « **Reply #12 on:** April 25, 2007, 05:18:30 AM »

Slugs have come a LOOOONG way...
Rifling is probably not necessary within reasonable range..

http://www.nrapublications.org/tah/Slugs.asp

gitano · « **Reply #13 on:** August 24, 2007, 12:56:59 PM »

There are a number of folks making SxS rifles from SxS shotguns. Some install liners; some cut the barrels off ahead of the chambers and turn new barrels. Installing new barrels is more challenging, both in manufacture and in regulation, but the weight and look is better in the finished product.

Paul

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #14 on:** August 24, 2007, 01:14:34 PM »

Just install rifled choke tubes.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #15 on:** December 07, 2007, 01:53:49 PM »

A friend of mine bought a 3.5" side by side from me and I think he cut it down too short to 18" I would have gone to 22 or 24" for that classic bore rifle look. He had one barrel choked and added rifle sights. Shot sabots through the right barrel and shot through the left when he was on stand in NJ. They have a rule that you need to be 10 -15 feet off the ground to use a slug other wise he would have had both sides chokes. If you cut down or choke a cut down gun you have the problem of getting both barrels to land slugs in the same place by using slug and buck he eliminated that. Some of the CVA Black powder double rifles had two separate rear sights. One for each barrel.
Boxhead What is the barrel length of your factory gun?

northwolf · « **Reply #16 on:** January 26, 2008, 01:27:52 PM »

You can get Rifle inserts from different sources. BUT.... the cost!!! Anywhere from 650EUROS (about $1000) and up. The largest rifle calibre I saw was 9.3X74.
The other problem will be..... can your shotgun handle the pressure?? When you go up to 45000-50000PSI, most shotguns come up wanting!
I have a "Fangschussgeber" (it's an insert with a 3" rifled barrel for 12Gauge and cost about $100) in 38Special in my O/U 12/30-06. (This insert is meant to be used as a killing shot closeup on wounded game) You can't use a 357 Magnum, since the pressure is MUCH greater then the 38 Special; the chamber doesn't accommodate a 357Mag!)
Any pressure in a "Coach Gun' could only be in the black powder cartridge range!

JimP. · « **Reply #17 on:** February 08, 2008, 05:30:47 AM »

tried a remington spartan coach gun in 12 gauge, the gun shot well with shot, but at 50 yds, it shot perfectly elevation wise, but the left barrel was 7 inches left of point of aim and the right barrel was 3 inches right of point of aim, usless for slugs, so i sold it...JimP.

StrawHat · « **Reply #18 on:** February 09, 2008, 01:22:53 AM »

In one of the earlier Gun Digest's (when it was still edited by John Amber), there was an article titled "A Poor Man's Double" that dealt with turning a 121 gauge shotgun into a 121 bore smooth rifle. Barrels were shortened, sights were added etc.

If I can find it in my pile of cra.., I mean library, I will post the edition.

moxgrove · « **Reply #19 on:** February 09, 2008, 09:52:33 AM »

I would love to read the article. I've toyed with the idea of having ansxs regulated for slugs.

jro45 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 13, 2008, 04:27:14 AM »

I know a man that took his shotgun a double barrel and replaced them with two 45/70 barrels and fixed them to shoot the 45/70 He is a gunsmith. I know from him a range I belong to.

StrawHat · « **Reply #21 on:** February 13, 2008, 09:22:24 AM »

Quote from: moxgrove on February 09, 2008, 09:52:33 AM

I would love to read the article. I've toyed with the idea of having ansxs regulated for slugs.

While I have not been able to find my copy of the digest, it is the 32 Edition printed in 1978.

Your library may have a copy. Mine is buried in my pile of gun magazines.

STUMPJMPR · « **Reply #22 on:** May 18, 2008, 03:23:21 AM »

I thought i saw remington carrying this gun they may have dropped it....It is the same thing as their spartan line...For some reason i thought it was chambered in 45-70 also
http://www.baikalcanada.com/rifles_combo_artemida.htm

S.B. · « **Reply #23 on:** July 03, 2008, 12:27:27 AM »

Not an unheard of idea? But, probably easier to have rifle barrels installed into a double shot guns breech assembly? I read an article, years back, about a gunsmith who was installing rifle barrels into shot guns breech assemblies and called it mono-blocking? The problem with this and the expense starts mounting when it comes to accuracy? Regulating the barrels(getting them to shoot the same place), is what dooms most cheap manufacturing.
As a side note, I've always dreampt of owning a Brittish double rifle in one of the African calibers as I'm sure anyone who grew up reading Rourk or any PHs, or African hunting, books would.
I always thought a double 30.06 would be the ultimate deep woods deer rifle?
But, maybe manufacturing techniques have progressed enough to get good accuracy and cut costs?

Mike Britton · « **Reply #24 on:** July 03, 2008, 03:27:28 AM »

The project I had planned was to take my 16 ga. 311 Stevens that sometime in it's life was shortened to 23"(!?!), and install a .38/55 liner in one of the barrels.
Then I was going to install sights on that barrel, and make a SxS combo gun.

S.B. · « **Reply #25 on:** July 03, 2008, 07:15:53 AM »

Mike, if you get this gun project done, please post some pictures, here? Sounds like you would have a winner, there!
Steve

jro45 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 03, 2008, 09:27:18 AM »

I know this gunsmith that made a double 45/70 out of his 12ga. I saw him at the range shooting it. He didn't fire full house loads in it, but he had a nice group at 75yds.

Mike Britton · « **Reply #27 on:** July 03, 2008, 12:12:19 PM »

I'm still looking for a good smith in the Dallas area. Some of the ones I have run into around here work with axes and pitchforks.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #28 on:** July 04, 2008, 01:00:09 PM »

The shotgun to 45-70 adapters shoot "ok", but it would be rare that they would be regulated in a double... I still have a couple around, maybe i need shoot them a bit for an update...

It probably won't happen any time soon though...

DM

Mike Britton · « **Reply #29 on:** July 05, 2008, 06:25:32 AM »

My dad was a machinist. That's some serious work there. Are those o-rings to center the sleeve in the bore?