H&R 38/55 Target Model Problem - Help!!

[38-72]

I am looking for ideas on how to fix a problem I have with my H&R 38/55 target model rifle. 

I bought the gun new a few months ago.  I shoot lead bullets, so I slugged the bore, which ran about 379 to 380.  I had the neck area reamed out so I could shoot 380 bullets. 

Loading data:  I use 240 grain, 380 diameter, Oregon Trail FN bullets, which are seated to an overall cartridge length so the bullet just barely touches the rifling.  I use 777 black powder substitute (enough to fill the case to the bottom of the bullet without compression).  I use a paper card (0.030 thick) between the powder and the base of the bullet.

Now for the problem:  At 25 yards, about half the bullets are going sideways thru the target.  The other half leave normal holes.  What the heck am I doing wrong?

[quickdtoo]

For starters, the cast bullets I shoot are .002" larger than the bore, so the would mean you should be shooting .381"-.382" bullets I would think.

There's a couple good links on loading for the ..38-55 in the FAQs and Help sticky.

Tim

[handirifle]

What Quick said, plus you might want to think about bullet hardness.  Even with .380 bullets, shooting them with BP might not have enough pressure to "upset" the bullet into the rifling.

Most BP shooters I've read try to use a 1-20 or 1-30 mix which is fairly soft.  Try to paper patch a few of those bullets and see if it helps.  That will tell you if they need to be a larger dia.

[Capt. Augustus]

Another fellow and I are setting up our .38-55's and he is using the same bullet you are.  He was using BP and was keyholing at 50 yards. I am using another bullet with IMR4895 and have not experienced any keyholing.  The lasercast bullets are known for their hardness, perhaps that's part of the story.

[coldmold]

I shoot lead bullets with 4895. My 38/55 will key hole any bullet sized under 379.

[cpj]

I thought that all black powder (or substitutes) loads should be compressed? Yes? No? Maybe?

[handirifle]

Not required but often more accurate.

[boommer]

38-72 I would say you really need to go with a bullet two thousands over bore or super soft slug 30-1 at least for b/p to get it to bump up .
I have a 38-55 target model and it has a .380 bore and a tight chamber and I cast my own at .379 at 30-1 and use swiss black and she will shoot a nice tight group when my eyes are working good just get some softies and it should clean up your key holes.and think about using the real black like swiss 1.5 it seemed to work better for me than GOEX 2FF or cartridge.

[38-72]

First I want to thank everyone for your comments. 

And, second, I have some Great News!!! 

I tried a softer and heavier bullet, 380 diameter & 265 grains weight.  I loaded the case with 777 powder (just enough to touch the bullet base and loaded to the same over all length as before).  I loaded a few with standard rifle primers and a few more with standard large pistol primers.  I shot them at the same distance, 25 yards.  And, my final answer is:  NO MORE KEY HOLING.

I tried 2f vs 3f; there was very little difference between the two in the accuracy dept.  The big difference is in the primers.  For group size, the pistol primers ran circles around the rifle primers.  The loads with the rifle primers were grouping in the 3 to 4 inch range.  However, with the pistol primer loads, the group size was about 3/4 inch. 

I didn’t clean the bore between strings.  I wanted simulate a SASS match with lots of shots between cleaning.  The best groups came at the end of the testing.

I haven’t had the chance to test them at 100 yards, maybe this weekend. 

[handirifle]

38-72
 Great news, especially since my Target model will be available for pickup on the 9th.
One more suggestion.  Something I've been told, is to try a fiber wad between the bullet and powder.  This helps prevent the base of the bullet from melting.  Many tests have proven if the base is distorted, it adversly affects accuracy.

Some guys use what is called a grease cookie but you'll have to read up a bit on it.  Good luck, keep us posted on updates.

On the softer and heavier bullet.  How soft and where'd you get it?

[John Boy]

38-72:  Not many folks use them but Harry Pope, one of the best 200 yard shooters that ever lived did ... dry felt wads.  Might want to give em a try instead of the fibers
On a bad day, using CCI Br2 primers and Goex Cartridge, the groups are 6" at 200yds with a vernier sight

[handirifle]

38-72,
You might get more input on wads and grease cookies  here. http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/board,35.0.html or at Shiloh's forums http://shilohrifle.com/forums/

Both seem to have lots of experience with the 38-55.

[safetysheriff]

I tried 2f vs 3f; there was very little difference between the two in the accuracy dept.  The big difference is in the primers.  For group size, the pistol primers ran circles around the rifle primers.  The loads with the rifle primers were grouping in the 3 to 4 inch range.  However, with the pistol primer loads, the group size was about 3/4 inch. 

38-72'

if you look at the long-range forums for competition shooting of smokeless powders you find the same principle applying with many loads the competitors work up.    the mildest primer that consistently gets the job done is oftentimes the most accurate one tested.

that's why Win' primers are still so often used in competition using smokeless powders.    they are consistently capable of igniting double-based ball/spherical powders while also working on stick powders of either single or double base.   

good for you, being such an 'experimenter' and all.

take care,

ss'