338/06 or 35 Whelen?

[Lagavulin]

If you had the choice between the two for hunting moose and keeping your butt safe from grizz as your doing it, with a 250 yard maximum shot, which would you choose?
I have the opportunity to purchase a newly constructed 35 whelen A.I. Although my heart was set on finding or building a 338/06, my thinking is that I dont need to bother going up to a 358. 338 = longer trajectory, better SD out of the 225 gr...etc. Am I wrong? Will the whelen give me more of a whack than the 338/06 If I happen to be a little recoil conscious as well?   :roll:

[skandiaman]

I have a Whelen and carry it in Alaska. I feel confident with it. From what I hear  the 338/06 has an edge on the whelen because of what you mentioned as well as bullet selection and better shoulder angle. I don't think you can go wrong with any caliber based on the '06.

[Daveinthebush]

I like the .35 and it is what I carry for almost everything.  You can shoot pistol bullets up to 300 grain bullets.  I think that at the lower end of the bullet weights, that the .338/06 may just be slightly better than the .35. Ouch, can't believe I said that. :roll:   But at the upper end, 250-300, I believe the Whelen has the edge, slightly.  The is an excellent article in Big Bore rifles and Cartridges on the comparison of the two.  All said and done.....the old classics are hard to beat.  A few feet per second here and there doesn't mean a thing if you can't hit what your aiming at.

[Graybeard]

Any real world difference is mostly in the head of the person who thinks one has a noticeable edge on the other. Using 225 grain bullets in both the trajectory difference at your stated 250 yards is less than you can see. Likely under 2" if you use bullets of same construction. Maybe less. The .358" bore has a greater expansion ratio so can push the same weight bullet about 100-150 fps faster at same pressures. This makes up for any superior BC of the .338" bore.

The .338" bore has a slight edge in SD over the .358" bore at same bullet weight but it is so slight that in the real world is is fanciful thinking only. Folks who use them say there is a difference when game is hit with a .375" vs. .358" vs. .338" bore. I dunno. I've only used .358" myself and sure like the way it performs on game.

GB

[sideironjohn]

Keep in mind, the 8mm-06 has a better sectional density than the .338-06 in same-weight bullets, and the 30-06 has even better!
You can generally drive a certain weight of bullet faster in the larger caliber, so that somewhat mitigates the "benefit."
A 225 gr .338 bullet has a SD of .28135, and the .358 is .25059.
But the 250 gr .358 is .31261.
You said 35 Whelen Imp, which to me says 250gr @2650 fps.
Compare that to the .338-06 225gr @ maybe 2650-2700 fps, right?
I think I'd go with the Whelen, since they'd both work great, and you have an eye on close shots with bears.
As for recoil, similar powder weights and bullet weights should give similar recoil in the same stock design; the main difference here would be if you go with a heavier .358 bullet, which may give you a little more push, but both of these guys are right there with the '06, so don't worry much about that. There might be a 5% increase going from 225 to 250 grain.
As for trajectoies, if you don't have a ballistics program, give me the BC's of the bullets you plan on using and I can figure it for you.

If you're thinking of building a .338-06, you have to ask yourself how close is this Whelen to what you had in mind - chambering aside.
Because even if it was in .338=06, but the wrong action, bbl length, etc., you won't be happy.

Cheers!

[Lagavulin]

I love these forums. Thanks for the all the advice. I think I'll pursue the Whelen since its being put together already and the owner will cut his custom walnut stock length to fit me. It has a new 24 inch barrel, mauser 98 action glass beded, Timney trigger and a stock he makes himself...very balanced feeling as it stands right now. Glad to here both calibers are very similar. Im comfortable shooting handloaded 7mag's and 45/70's so I guess I should be OK.
Great feedback guys. Thanks again. :toast:

[TopGun]

I have a 1903 springfield rebarreled to 35 Whelen by ER Shaw in the early 80's. I love the gun. Although I have never taken a big bear with it, I would not feel undergunned. I have Sierra 225's over Max 4064 and it shoots less than 1" groups.  It is as flat as I need it to be for 250yds, has the power for everything and I can go up to 250/275's if needed. I also have a 338-06 in a TC just because I love the caliber. I choose teh big 35 when I feel I need a sure thing. BTW-there's not a big difference in velocity or trajectory between the 225 and the 250's --the 225 just seems to kick less.
IMHO--in these calibers, any rifle bullet over 200gr is a real, big game bullet.  My 35 doesn't shoot teh Hornady 200's as well, but they are fast. The 225 was my personal compromise.

[Daveinthebush]

I love the 225's myself.  They blow right through caribou with no problem at all.  My only moose that fell to the .35 was at nine yards so there is no fair story here. Dead is dead. I have some 200 Sprie points loaded up that are going to the range in a bit.  I might as head to range today since I can't seen to type or spell. :grin:

[Advocate]

I would go with the .35 over the .338.  More frontal area and there are some great premium .35 cal bullets out there unlike in previous years.  I have never had a .35 cal rifle but I have used the .338 Win Mag and the .375 H&H over the years.  Studying the ballistics of the .35 Whelen AI, however, and even the .350 Rem Mag, I think I would use one of them if I ever go back to hungitn the larger mammals.

[Paul H]

35 all the way  :-D While the 338 might have some theoretical advantages when looking at load data, I just don't see what advantage it will have in the real world.  The slightly better balistic coefficient means that at 300 yds, the slower bullet is finally going as fast as the 35 bullet, and hitting all of an inch or two higher.  That is the effective range of either round.

I have never heard complaints about the 35's ability to penetrate, so the sd argument is mute.  If you're getting sufficient penetration with 350 gr .358" bullets, you won't get better killing power by going to a smaller bore diameter.

The final thing to consider is the bullets, which is what should be considered foremost, as they are what do the work.  The 35 bullets are designed for the velocity of the whelen, but the 338's are designed for the higher velocity of the 338 win mag and 340 Wetherby.  While there are lots of 338 bullets out there, you'll find most 338-06 fans stating that the bullet best suited for their round is the 210 gr partition.  Whereas the whelen has a handful of 250 gr bullets perfectly suited to it.

And finally, don't forget the fun and cheap practice provided by 35 pistol bullets with small dose of unique.  I've had lots of folks shoot such loads through my whelen now rigby, and I have to fight to get the gun back, they are so fun to shoot.

[EOD3]

Watch the headspace when you reload that 35.  The shoulder (or lack of it) makes it real easy to mess up the case length.

EOD3

[sdgunslinger]

It's my opinion that the .35 will get you somewhat more whump than the .33 cal. version .  Due to the bigger frontal area , and the fact that the larger bore will do somewhat more velocity with a given bullet weight .

And there are some extra heavy .35 slugs available from 275 to 310 gr ..........

[Yukon Jack]

As far as animals are concerned, they are the same.  Yeah, the 338 have better sectional densities, more bullet selections.  Yeah, the 35 Whelen is bigger in diameter (wooohooo a big .020 inches)!  No animal is ever going to react differently.  You've got like powder charges, producing like velocities, using like bullets of like construction in like weights.  No difference.

What it would boil down to if I had to make the decision is about 3 things.
1.  Do you handload?  If yes, either or.  If not, the 35 Whelen.  I would not spend the money Weatherby is asking for 338-06 loads.

2.  What is your target animal.  If it is grizzly and you handload, either or.  If not, the Whelen, see reason one above.  Basically, if you handload, you stoke the 338 version with a bullet that is going to penetrate like the 35 Whelen in just as heavy weight and just as premium construction.  If you want to use on a variety of game, the 338 version may give you a better choice of bullet weights.  Especially if your rifle shoots Barnes X bullets well.

3.  How you feel about nostalgia.  Believe it or not, this does play a factor.  It makes someone choose a 7x57 over a 7mm-08, or a 318 Westley Richards over a 338-06.  Identical in their ballistics, but having the Whelen label evokes a certain reminiscence of the old days.  A wildcat label or A-Square or Weatherby label doesn't.

Either choice, you can't go wrong.  Both will handle any game in North America and loaded with similar bullets at like velocities, they'll perform the same on any animal.