Author Topic: New project starting - Carronade (Read 16783 times)

GGaskill · « **Reply #90 on:** May 16, 2007, 05:57:48 AM »

You have to remember these things were stored outside in the rain, snow, etc., and needed as much protection as they could get. Plain oil provides no UV protection and nothing lets the water do its dirty deeds. Paint was a necessity.

rusty barrels · « **Reply #91 on:** May 16, 2007, 12:43:09 PM »

Oh Lord ! I better go paint all my rifle stocks! Couldn't help it guys.

irishman · « **Reply #92 on:** May 16, 2007, 05:02:28 PM »

hey, rusty barrels, Don't worry about your rifle stocks, rusty barrels are serious problems. Consider going to brass barrels lol

Michael

Rickk · « **Reply #93 on:** May 19, 2007, 05:06:52 AM »

Dropped the barrel off at the machine shop this morning to have an expert try to break the drill making the vent hole instead of me.

Even though he knew what I was bringing, it was funny to see the look on his face when I slid open the back door of my box truck on his loading dock. He didn't say anything, walked away, and came back with 4 guys and a pallet truck.

EL Caz 66 · « **Reply #94 on:** May 19, 2007, 05:31:44 AM »

The look on their faces must of been priceless

irishman · « **Reply #95 on:** May 19, 2007, 05:54:07 AM »

Holding her down so she can't move is critical ! You have a brave machinist Rick, messing up your own work is bad, but breaking off a drill in that barrel would be real bad Michael

Rickk · « **Reply #96 on:** May 19, 2007, 06:38:42 AM »

He owns a medium sized machine shop, complete with an EDM machine, so if things go wrong, he has a "plan B"

Rickk · « **Reply #97 on:** June 02, 2007, 09:13:31 AM »

An update...

Machine shop had a guy go on vacation, then two other guys went to hospital with serious stuff, so they are backed up ... barrel is still sitting there waiting for fuse hole to be drilled. I can't complain cuz they are doing it for free. Maybe this week.

I decided to go with stainess steel as much as possible for thru rods, axles. I have some 1 " stainless coming that will make up the axles. The wheels have 1/2 inch bearings in them, but if I pop out the bearings there is a 1 3/16 inch hole in there. My plan is to use some 1" copper tubing as a bushing in between the 1 inch axle and the 1 3/16 inch hole in the wheels. The wheels have zerk fittings so I will be able to grease them up nicely. I think that 1 Inch copper tubing will fit a little loose, so I am planning on coating the outside of the tubing with solder (mostly lead) to build it up a bit and make a soft metal contact area at the same time.

The thru rods will be 1/2 inch stainless. I made a threading die wrench special for this purpose, as I found when doing the 3/8 inch rod that the typical threader wrench was not up to the task... under-mussled and hard to get started straight. This new wrench I made uses heavy walled 1x2 steel rectangle tubing for a handle, and has provisions for 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 inch guide bushings to insure the threads start straight. Pictures of this will appear when I start threading the rods.

In the mean time, the wood is still drying... pretty dry right now in fact.

I've got to order some stainless square 1/2 inch nuts and washers.

I'll be making a stop at the metal supply house for the 1/2 inch stainless rod, as well as the trunion cap material this week.

I got my hands on a Forstner bit that will accept the trunnions a couple days ago.

I am still working on some concepts for the floating rear axle, as well as making sure the front axle is securly mounted (it will bear most of the weight).

So, if the barrel shows up sometime this week, I may be starting to put things together next weekend.

Smoke n oak · « **Reply #98 on:** June 02, 2007, 10:41:13 AM »

Man this has been so helpful to me. I have a 18 1/2 inch barrel coming today and have had a hard time with trunnion caps. I can go to cannon mania, but I've been ripped off there, as you all know how they are. Dec. 22 2006 and still waiting.

Well it's summer in the desert and working out side is nasty in the day ( 100+ in the shade ) and my wife gets mad if I setup shop in the house.
Thanks, Agan you guys Rock!!!

jeeper1 · « **Reply #99 on:** June 02, 2007, 11:34:20 AM »

Quote

Well it's summer in the desert

I quite understand that. I spent way too much time in your area when I drove an OTR truck for a living. The drop yard was in west Phoenix.

Smoke n oak · « **Reply #100 on:** June 03, 2007, 08:01:33 PM »

Thanks, Lendi I'll take a look.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #101 on:** June 04, 2007, 12:16:55 PM »

Rickk,

PM sent to you.

Tracy and Mike

Rickk · « **Reply #102 on:** June 08, 2007, 02:42:00 PM »

I'm still waiting for the machine shop to drill the fuse hole. He is backed way up.

In the mean time, the UPS guy has been bringing me parts of various types.

I played with mounting a wheel on an axle over the last couple of days... Here is the result :

I drilled a 1/4 inch hole 1/2 inch from the end. I drilled this hole in two steps... 3/16 and then 1/4. I think that was a mistake. The next one I will try doing in a single step.

Over the axle goes a stainless thrust washer. When done for real there may be several of them here to take up the excess slack in the axle length. Big washers can be hard to find. I found them at http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/search.do?freeText=washer&page=GRID&history= . They carry brass, bronze, copper as well.

Then goes a length of type "L" 1" copper tubing to form a "bearing". You can see one of two 1/4 inch holes drilled into the copper tube. They will line up with the zerk fitting that is in the wheel when assembled to allow grease to go not only on top, but also inside the copper tubing. There is actually a grove machined completely around the ID of the wheel in the center where the zerk fitting is to allow the grease to spread out without having to rotate it to do it.

On slides the cast iron 8" wheel. You can see the copper tubing in between the 1" stainless axle and the wheel.

Next goes another 1" stainless thrust washer.

And a pin that normally would be used to help fasten the top link of a 3-point hitch to a farm tractor. The pin is .230 diameter. I got them from Tractor Supply. Most any bigger farm supply store should have them. I got the wheels at Tractor Supply as well. They come with a 1/2 inch bearing, axle bolt, mounting bracket - all of which get trashed.

The ring of the pin snaps over the axle to prevent it from falling out.

Taa daa

Tropico · « **Reply #103 on:** June 08, 2007, 09:33:11 PM »

I really like these stainless axles ., better than lifetime. Nicely done !

Rickk · « **Reply #104 on:** June 09, 2007, 05:32:50 AM »

I went to the hardware store down the street (the one that hires 18-21 year old cute college girls) this morning and looked in the drill isle, hoping to find a better drill for the remaining axle holes.

What I found was a drill intended to be a "pilot drill" for a holesaw. It is a 1/4 inch drill that is only 2 3/4 inch long, 135 degree split point, and has a triangle ground shank to fit in a drill chuck without slipping. You need that for a holesaw because of the tremendous torque needed to turn the saw. It is a Century P/N 05307 if anyone cares to know that much detail.

It was only HSS, not cobalt, but worked like a charm.

I took the side of a flat file and spent about 30 seconds making a small flat spot on the side of the 1" rod where I planned on drilling. There was no drill wander at all.

One thing I realized yesterday while drilling in two steps was that once the first drill broke thru there was nothing to hold the oil. With a single pass you can back the drill out every 0.10 or so, fill the hole with 30W oil, and keep everything cool and lubricated.

It only took about 2 minutes to finish the hole with no smoke or drill discoloration.

Rickk · « **Reply #105 on:** June 09, 2007, 10:34:15 AM »

It is raining today, so I decided to try to thread some 1/2 inch 304 rod that will be used to hold the carronade carriage together. A couple of machinists told me I would need a lathe to do it. I don't have a lathe, so I had to do it without one.

When I threaded the 3/8 rod for the 1" Brooks barrel, I knew I was at the limit of a typical threading die wrench. I came close to bending it. I also had issues getting the thread to start straight. If it doesn't start straight, the thread will not be concentric with the rod and evetually it will push metal outside of the diameter of the rod, at which point you can't really thread it any more.

So, I made a new threading die wrench with more beef and a guide to start the threads straight.

Here is how it works...

First, I tapered the end of the rod to make it easier to start the die onto the rod.

Then I welded two beads on top of the rod about 45 degrees apart and there is also one more that goes on the bottom about dead center to make it possible to actually hold the rod in a vise.

Without the weld bead the rod will just spin in the vice. The beads will get ground off later after the threading is completed. Since this part of the rod is burried inside of the wood, a little impefection will not be noticable.

Here is the home-made threading die wrench, made out of a 1/2 inch drive deep socket and a 1"x2" rectangular tube about 4 feet long for plenty of leverage. There is a hole drilled in the tube to accept a 1/2 inch bushing. The 1/2 inch bushing will accept a 3/8 inch busing and that will accept a 1/4 inch bushing, so it will fit more than one size of rod. The bushing makes the cut start straight.

Start the die by applying just a little force on the threader handle, and tap the die with a soft hammer. If you are applying the correct amount of force, the die will only turn when you tap it. You will have to do this routine for at least the entire first turn. Back off every 1/4 turn to clear the threads, and use plenty of oil.

Once the hammer is no longer needed, work the die in and out only a few degrees at a time. Every quarter of a turn or so, back it off a good 1/4 to 1/2 of a turn untill it feels clear of chips. When you think you are done, you will find that, due to the taper on the die a nut will stop about 3 threads short of the finish of the threaded area. Unless you want to go three more turns, you can just flip the die over so that the non-tapered end is doing the cuttting. It will cut fine backwards, and you will be able to finish the cut on the last three threads.

Stainless Steel Square nuts from "Bolt Depot" http://www.boltdepot.com/product.aspx?cc=7&cs=99&cm=6

------------------------

Changing subjects a bit... look what came back from the machine shop this morning... thank you Jamie from Westfield Tool and Die.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #106 on:** June 09, 2007, 04:03:50 PM »

It's always a pleasure to see one overcome reality and do the impossible.

Rickk · « **Reply #107 on:** June 10, 2007, 05:09:20 AM »

One man's reality is another man's prescription drug... but I digress

After threading one end of 6 rods, I found that if you try to go to fast, you will make a mess. thread 1/8 turn, back up, thread 1/8 turn, back up... etc etc.

Oil often to lubricate and clean out chips as well.

If the chips build up, they will mess up the threads.

If the rain convinces me that it has stopped, I might actually cut some wood to rough lengths this afternoon.

Rickk · « **Reply #108 on:** June 12, 2007, 03:27:30 PM »

I've been staying up at night thinking about the axles.

If I just have them end when they exit the body of the carriage, they will be 21 inches wide end to end.

The axles are currently 24 inches long. I was thinking of making fake wooden axle convering to cover the extra 1-1/2 inches that would stick out on each side if I left them at 24 inches long. That would look more like an original.

I plan on welding the center portion of the front axle inside of some 1 1/2 inch square tube to stop the axle from rotating. The rear one will be welded to something as well, but I am not sure how I am going to do it yet. The rear axle will be mounted in the center only and "float" to deal with uneven ground. I am still thinking something like a tractor front end floating axle, but I have to figure out how to work it in with my fake wooden axle shroud concept.

In the mean time, I put together my engine puller that I got from NortherOnline. I will need it to pick up the barrel. It was funny when I was putting it together, as my 5 year old wanted to help. It seems that some of the washers and nuts needed to be put onto bolts that were inside some 2 inch square tubing. My hand wouldn't fit, but his did. I gave him the lock washers and nuts and he stuck his hand in there and put them on for me... It was an awesome experience

Rickk · « **Reply #109 on:** June 14, 2007, 02:21:07 PM »

I rough cut some of the wood... got a bit more to cut. I coated the pieces I cut with boiled linseed oil to let them stablize.

I was looking for some tubing to make the trunions ala "Tropico style".

While I could have picked up a 21 foot section at my local steel supplier for about 100 bucks, I only needed a foot of the stuff. So, I ordered a couple feet from http://www.discountsteel.com/index.cfm/go/main.itemDisplay/itemID/165.htm . They sell it by the inch. The prices are of course inflated, and the shipping is about the same as the material cost, but if you only need a foot or two of something it is worth checking out.

Rickk · « **Reply #110 on:** June 17, 2007, 04:38:58 AM »

The back of my truck is fillled with steel. Just a metter of finding time to do something with it.

I dug up a book on gunstock finishing and surfed the net as well. Most sources frowned on linseed oil as a good protectant for something that will have to sit outside in the weather. It passes water with little resistance and does not block UV rays very well. It also supports fungus growth. That all adds up to rotted wood if left in the sun and the rain. I guess that's why they painted guns rather than linseeded them.

So, after letting the linseed that I applied soak in deep, I rubbed the outer surface of the wood with turpintine to remove the still wet linseed oil that is near the surface of the wood and applied marine spar varnish. I found the spar varnish recommendation both in multiple places on the net and also in a rather exhaustive book I have on the subject of gun stock finishing.

Oddly enough, military guns thru the ages were usually finished with linseed oil. The book I have came up with a good explaination as to why that was acceptable. It appears that many commanding officers felt that their men often had too much free time on their hands, and re-oiling their gun stocks on a very regular basis kept them out of trouble. The author mentioned that he himself while in the service had a second stock for his M14 that he had varnished. He would swap it at inspection time for his "beater" stock, the inspections went well, and he had way more free time to get into trouble that way.

GGaskill · « **Reply #111 on:** June 17, 2007, 06:48:04 AM »

It appears that many commanding officers felt that their men often had too much free time on their hands, and re-oiling their gun stocks on a very regular basis kept them out of trouble.

I am not sure if commanding officers spent much time worrying about this; more likely the sergeants. At least it seemed that way when I was in the Army.

Rickk · « **Reply #112 on:** July 01, 2007, 02:40:50 PM »

I planned on a solid day of cannon building today. Every weekend day for the last month has had something planned on it, so I havn't been able to get a heck of a lot done.

About an hour into the day, I got call from the guy I get my hay from, saying there was a couple wagon loads ready for me. When it is hay season, everything stops... simple as that.

In spite of that I did rip apart my mortar, which was built with somewhat green wood, sand it down, fill the openings between the laminations with epoxy, repaint it, repaint the barrel, coat the bolts with linseed oil (I was surprsed at the rust on the bolts when I took it apart), put it all together, and even fire a coupla shots.

In the mean time, I started drilling some holes in the oak for the new naval cannon. I was using forstner bits. They make such nice holes, but due to the short cutting part they load up with wood quick and have to be constantly cleaned.

After getting a bit frustrated with the forstner, I tried a different bit... a ship auger. I was not sure if it would work well in a drill press, I was actrually a bit nervous to try it in fact, but it did an awesome job. You just give the drill press enough pressure to allow the screw in the drill bit to feed itself and kill the drill press after it breaks thru and enters a backing board.

I have this week off from work... maybe I can make some real progress tomorrow.

Rickk · « **Reply #113 on:** July 05, 2007, 04:13:17 PM »

This cannon buildin' is more time consuming than I thought.

Progress has been made, in spite of a few screwups. A few welds had to be cut and redone, and wood needed some adjusting here and there.

The weather has not co-operated much either ... it is raining about 2 inches an hour right now and my only real workspace is outside. Every time I make a cut in the wood I immediately varnish it with Spar Varnish, both to stablize the wood against warpage, and also to protect it from rain.

Anyway, the front axle is mosty done, and my "floating rear axle" is about 50% done. The wooden carriage is well underway. If things work out as planned, by Sunday I will be hoisting the barrel and working on the upper part of the carriage and the trunnion caps.

I came to the realization the forstner bits are great for nice holes, but not nice deep holes. I have been starting most of my deep holes with a shallow ship auger in my drill press, and then finishing it up with a longer ship auger bit and an electric hand drill. The large side surface area of the ship auger insures that it goes in straight. It does not break out of the back side as clean as a forstner bit, but as long a a washer is going over the hole it is adequate.

From what I gather, ship augers are not intended for use in a drill press. However, that is the only way to be sure that the hole starts straight. There is a learning curve associated with using them in a drill press, and keeping a finger near the "OFF" switch is important if things do not go as planned.

I will try to post a few pictures this weekend.

Tomorrow, if the weather cooperates, I plan to visit the USS Constitution and see some real Caronnades first hand.

I also has a somewhat pleasant interuption in my schedule on July 4th, and will post a few pictures of that "incident" in a few days. Stay tuned for that in a separate thread

Rickk · « **Reply #114 on:** July 06, 2007, 04:17:57 PM »

I spent today at the USS Constitution. I must admit, I learned alot !

The carriages on the naval guns were way less sophisticated than I expected. I guess, given the 210 year old technology, they were what they should have been.

As an added note, Lendi from Duck Island, who sent me copies of his plans for a later style carronade, is dead-nuts on as far as historical accuracy.

Tropico, the quoin is definitely mounted to a separate floor piece that is angled downward. The floor piece is far less complex than you could ever imagine... it is a removable board that straddles the wooden axle as well as steel through bolt. From my digestion of the plans that I got my hands on, even the floor board could be removed to add to the elevation capabilities for long range shooting.

I took a whole crap load of pictures... way more than I could ever post. If anyone wants a CD of them, feel free to PM me and I'll send it off to ya.

My wife was driving on the way back (a two hour ride). This gave me time to reflect on my floating rear axle design. I realized that the design in my head could not be easily assembled, and could never be disassembled. Fortunately I came up with a "plan B" that should actually be easier to fabricate. On top of that, the work so far does not require any modifications to it at all.

When I got home, everything was covered in rain, and there was a bit of rust on parts that didn't get a good coat of epoxy paint. No big deal... a bit of sandpaper and a second coat tomorrow should take care of that.

Progress pictures should appear on Sunday, barring a totally embarrassing screw-up between now and then.

Rick

Rickk · « **Reply #115 on:** July 08, 2007, 04:17:47 PM »

For something appearing so simple, getting it to this point was a hell of a lotta work. Each thru-bolt took a couple hours to make, and the mortices in the wood were about an hour each.

It does need to be taken apart, the classic curved cut on the bottom performed, resanded, and revarnished, but right now I wanna shoot it.

The floating rear truss.

Floating truss axle retainers installed. The clips are really big. I need to figure out somethign a little smaller, but they will do for now.

Front axle installed

Rear axle installed. There will ultimately be bolts running thru the carriage and thru the plates that will hold the axles in place. The front axle really can't move anyway, the rear axle is not permenently fastened yet.

Allen tests the wheels

finally it is right-side up. Test the barrel and figure out the top side next.

I was trying to figure out how many hours I have into this thing so far... counting looking for parts, researching the "historically correct" way to do this, redesigning the thing to make me happy, figuring out how to do things with my limited facilities, and actually doing the work, I think I am into this about 300 hours so far.... amazing how much effort one of these things is.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #116 on:** July 08, 2007, 04:38:39 PM »

Looks like you are making excellent progress, Rick. Great looking wheels too! We really like your photo, wheel testing. Nothing beats pure boy-power! If we adults could approach our tasks with the same enthusiasm, we would be successful at everything we attempted. Can't wait to see the tube mounted.

Regards,

Mike and Tracy

Cannonball · « **Reply #117 on:** July 08, 2007, 05:27:32 PM »

The computer, camera and internet connection...a couple 100$. BBL, parts & labor...a couple 1000$. The relic inherited by your son...PRICELESS!

That thing's probably got better handling than my new car!

Tropico · « **Reply #118 on:** July 08, 2007, 07:19:16 PM »

I am learning alot ., the photos are priceless., I will probably be using some of these ideas on my Hern Ordinance Rifles....., looks awesome working with Big stuff !!!

Rickk · « **Reply #119 on:** July 09, 2007, 04:08:33 PM »

My vacation is over... back to work today. I did manage to get in about 4 hours of cannon effort after work though.

I cut some 3 inch lengths of 2-1/2 inch schedule 40 steel pipe to make the trunions caps out of. I slid them onthe trunnions annd discovered that they are tapered. The pipes went on about 1 inch and stopped... about 1 and 1/2 inches shy of where they are supposed to be.

Lacking a lathe, I messed around with various ways to open the ID of the pipes up about 70 thousanths on one end, tapering down to original ID on the other end. I did most of the metal removal with my drill press and a a 2 inch sanding drum with 50 grit sandpaper on it. It took about and hour per pipe once I figured out what I was doing. One fits for sure. The other I will have to try tomorrow when it is light out... it is close anyway.