Author Topic: New project starting - Carronade (Read 16717 times)

Rickk · « **on:** March 30, 2007, 03:01:40 PM »

well, bigger is always better right?

Ordered a full sized Carronade barrel from Hern's yesterday. 40" long, 300#, 2.25 inch sub-bored. It will be equipped with one of Hern's new N-SSA conforming breech plugs. I already made arrangements to have the fuse hole EDM'ed for free (I love favors :-)

Picking up my order of about 99 board feet of 3 inch thick white oak at the lumber mill down the street this weekend (some for this, some for another future planned project). The carriage will be a naval style. I'm planning on cast iron wheels (Tractor Supply in the next town has them in stock).

Barrel will be here in about 10 weeks. Not sure how dry the wood will be by then. I think I'm gunna need an engine hoist to pull this off, or is there a better way to pick up a barrel?

dominick · « **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2007, 04:30:09 PM »

Quote

Not sure how dry the wood will be by then.

Hey Rick, I wonder how well a powdercoater's oven would work on drying wood. Some of the ovens in use are large enough for full scale carriage size trails. For example, a friend of mine has a 10 ft x 40 ft oven that will heat to 800 degrees. I'm not sure if that's how wood is kiln dried [i'm not a wood guy, steel only, sorry]. Just a suggestion in case you want to speed things up with the drying process. Dom

Rickk · « **Reply #2 on:** March 30, 2007, 04:47:06 PM »

I think 800 degrees would toast it :-).

If you try to dry it too fast it will do wierd things.

I have a 14 foot box cube van with a transparent roof on it that I use to move my llamas around. The transparent roof makes to box heat up quite a bit when the sun it out. On a sunny day it is 20 or so degrees warmer in there than outside, whick makes the relative humidity in it drop to zero.

It normally only gets used in the fall during fair season, so I am going to stack the wood in that (with spacers in-between planks for air circulation). A couple years in there would be perfect.... I don't have the patience for that... so I'll see how a couple months while I'm waiting for the barrel works out.

intoodeep · « **Reply #3 on:** March 31, 2007, 04:44:16 AM »

Quote from: Rickk on March 30, 2007, 03:01:40 PM

I think I'm gunna need an engine hoist to pull this off, or is there a better way to pick up a barrel?

That's how I had to get mine out of the Jeep.....

Double D · « **Reply #4 on:** March 31, 2007, 05:35:35 AM »

Some where there is an illustration of the fortification of the Alamo. It shows a cannon tube being hoisted up on the wall. The tube has rope, about 15-20 wraps around the tube. The length of wraps is long enough to give fore and aft support as well cinch tight from the weight of the tube.

rusty barrels · « **Reply #5 on:** April 02, 2007, 09:42:29 AM »

Boy Rickk, your sure are lucky to have wood supplier like that. I'm gonna end up building my hern mortar base out of fir, can't seem to get hardwood with the dimensions I want anywhere. By the way, South bend rep. has great plans for a naval gun truck.

Tropico · « **Reply #6 on:** April 02, 2007, 10:49:16 AM »

This will be good to see too ! Please post pics as your going ! By the way intoodeep nice photo. The Hern Carronades sure are a good looking barrel.

lendi · « **Reply #7 on:** April 02, 2007, 02:49:00 PM »

Rickk
I have built 4 carriages for the full size hern carronade. If you want the plans let me know.
Len
Duck Island Cannon Works

intoodeep · « **Reply #8 on:** April 02, 2007, 04:57:36 PM »

Quote from: lendi on April 02, 2007, 02:49:00 PM

Rickk
I have built 4 carriages for the full size hern carronade. If you want the plans let me know.
Len
Duck Island Cannon Works

Rickk,

That is a very generous offer that Len has made. I know that DI produces an excellent product. Below is a photo of my naval carriage/truck that was produced by Cannon LTD. This was a second hand spontaneous purchase and not built for me...

Rickk · « **Reply #9 on:** April 04, 2007, 03:11:33 AM »

Hi Len,

I have been looking for carronades all over the place. I did notice teh picture of the one on your web site that is in Mystic, CT, and it does look nice

Plans? absolutley!!! anything would help, and I am still in the planning stages. Are they in electronic format? I can send you my e-mail address.

I posted pictures a few threads back of some original carronades that I found in Salem back in January. Unfortunately they were behind an iron fence, and it was late at night. If I climbed in there to try to measure them I would prolly be in the clinker.

I've got enough 3" thick white oak (about 100 board feet) sitting in my cube van now to build a naval cannon and also a full sized Coehorn when the time for that comes as well. $1.25 a board foot, custom cut right from the sawmill. It is green wood... I gotta wax up the ends today to reduce the chance of it splitting. I would love to give the wood a year or two to dry, but that probably won't happen. I'll just keep an eye on it and guess when I can work with it.

Rusty Barrels, is there a sawmill in your area? If you can find one that also does pallets (most smaller mills to pallets as well, to help make ends meet) then you have come to the right place. They will have plenty of hardwood, and probably arn't busy making 2x4's for Home Depot. Do a search on www.anywho.com for "sawmill". I did it for my state (Massachusetts) and came up with 28 sawmills and 77 pallet companies. Ironically, the place I do business with isn't even listed, so there are no doubt pleny more out there hiding from you.

Oak is out there, you just have to find the saw mill. If you see a log truck anywhere, ask the driver where he is taking it. Check for tree farms as well. They would know where the mills are located.

Rick

rusty barrels · « **Reply #10 on:** April 04, 2007, 03:33:58 AM »

Thanks Rickk, it's been really frustrating trying to find the wood I need for my coehorn. Lord help me if I ever get the idea to build and large civil war field carriage.

GGaskill · « **Reply #11 on:** April 04, 2007, 12:07:23 PM »

I have been looking for carronades all over the place.

If you are looking for real Carronades such as those on the USS Constitution, get the CD-ROM from their supporting Historical Detachment. Only $15 and has the carronades plus three different 24 pounders and carriages.

Rickk · « **Reply #12 on:** April 04, 2007, 01:34:37 PM »

got it already :-)

I may even pay them a visit if it ever warms up (it's snowing in April right now).

It is only a 2 hour drive from here.

lendi · « **Reply #13 on:** April 04, 2007, 03:13:46 PM »

Rick,
I will copy the plans for the carronade carriage and mail them out to you. They are full size. The cannon in Mystic is in a gated community and not to accessible. I will send you some pictures of the last one that I did for reference. Tried to post them on this site and it doesn't seem to work. I have been purchasing my white oak locally, however the quality is not consistant. 12/4 material takes a long time to season correctly due to it's thickness. I have used a yard in Stoughten Ma. and am looking at one in Rawley Ma. Both are fairly close to me. How do you plan on drying your oak? Have been to the Constitution and it is definitely worth the trip. The carronades are on the upper deck.
Len DICW

Rickk · « **Reply #14 on:** April 04, 2007, 05:53:58 PM »

The details for drying the oak are a few posts up...basically i have a cube van that is little used except for in the fall. It has a transparent room and gets pretty warm in there when the sun shine on it. The wood is stacked in the back of the box, with wooden spacers between them. As soon as the rain stops I am going to parrafin wax the ends to help prevent splitting.

The mill I use in in Southwick, Ma. It is a small father and son owned mill. They are nice guys... easy to deal with. The son is into civil war re-enacting, so if you tell him you want it for a gun, he takes care to give you good stuff. Qualitiy of green oak is always a bit of a risk, as no one can tell for sure what it will do as it dries. At least what you walk out the door with will be good. I guess the trick is to buy alot well before you need it and carefully store it untill needed

I will PM you my mailing address... Thanks for the help !

Rick

Rickk · « **Reply #15 on:** April 15, 2007, 08:06:42 AM »

Couldn't find any parrafin... supermarkets used to carry the stuff... what happened?

Anyway, my dad (a carpenter long enought that he actually did carpentry work on the whaling ship "Charles W. Morgan" - not when it was in the Mystic Seaport, but when it was out catchin' whales) suggested Elmer's glue on the ends. So the ends are all Elmer'ed up. If the snow would stop (it's April 15th, and still snowing) the wood might actually start to dry.

Tractor Supply Co, sent me a 10% discount coupon, good this weekend only, so I ran down there yesterday and bought four 8" cast iron wheels. I believe they will accept a 1/2 inch axle, and have roller bearings with zerk fittings on them.

While I was at TSC, I checked out the hardware department. I will have to take a trip back there at some point in time as they have lots of oddball stuff in stock that looks like can be used on this project.

In the mean time, as sort of a warmup project, I should be getting a 1" bore Brooks naval barrel in the mail by next weekend. The barrel is about 1/3 of the size of the Hern Carronade, and I can use it to sort of work out the concepts for the big one. I already have the USS Constitution's plans, and Len's Carronade plans will probably be in my mailbox tomorrow, so I guess it is time to start getting serious.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #16 on:** April 15, 2007, 08:20:40 AM »

Quote from: Rickk on April 15, 2007, 08:06:42 AM

Couldn't find any parrafin... supermarkets used to carry the stuff... what happened?
...

Around here it's in the canning section - usually well stocked every fall.

Double D · « **Reply #17 on:** April 15, 2007, 08:54:16 AM »

I just paint the ends with some enamal paint.

Rickk · « **Reply #18 on:** April 15, 2007, 10:03:11 AM »

The hardware store I shop in all the time (the one that hires only cute 18-21 year old college girls to work at, for my convienience), had a zillion canning jars in the back room, but no parrafin wax. I seem to use it for lotsa things. I guess that means I gotta stock up this fall.

Enamel sounds good too... I guess anything that is thick and easy to apply should work.

One nice thing about Elmers is I was able to just smear it on with my fingers and wash it off with water.

Rickk · « **Reply #19 on:** April 15, 2007, 10:55:24 AM »

ebay... 50# of parrafin, and 10# of beeswax coming. the world is once again in balance

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #20 on:** April 15, 2007, 03:09:33 PM »

Quote from: Rickk on April 15, 2007, 10:55:24 AM

ebay... 50# of parrafin, and 10# of beeswax coming. the world is once again in balance

Ahhhhh, that's great! Being about 60 lbs off balance was beginning to set up some nasty vibrations!

Preacher_of_Boom · « **Reply #21 on:** April 15, 2007, 03:26:01 PM »

Like they say: "Mind your own beeswax."

Rickk · « **Reply #22 on:** April 19, 2007, 12:42:38 PM »

I figured I should mention where I find stuff when I find it throughout this project...

Beeswax about $3 a pound (depending on quantity ordered ) plus shipping http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZhoneychaserQQhtZ-1

Paraffin 50# for $40 plus shipping http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwooden-dryer-manQQhtZ-1

These are ebay sellers, so if you find this link months from now, well... maybe it will be there and maybe it won't.

Also, if you like to add Mutton Tallow (a classic BP lube additive) , there is only one practical source I have found to date - http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=3686. I bought 3 containers recently... they say 12 to 16 ounces per container... mine all ran about 12 ounces each

Rickk · « **Reply #23 on:** April 19, 2007, 12:44:12 PM »

A Thank You to Len for his Carronade plans and a zillion pictures !

These will all be added into the equation

Rickk · « **Reply #24 on:** April 28, 2007, 03:23:34 PM »

Well, after reviewing Len's plans, and also the plans for the guns on the Constitution, I concluded that what mine is going to evolve into will be quite a bit different than what it probably should look like. Len's plans are really close to what the Navy sent me by the way.

Seeing as how I am deviating from what I believe is a classic, historical carriage design quite a bit anyway, I have decided to throw out any attempt to conform to details of these established designs unless it is convienient. This is not to say that I am ignoring them, but to say I am stealing what I like, tossing what I don't. Some aspects will be changed to suit my machinery and capabilities, some will be changed to improve on things based on what is available now verses what was available 150 years ago.

I have looked at other modern recreations and, while the real artists like Len make immaculate reproductions, it looks like many others take creative license. So, while I may be guilty, I won't be alone. For instance, at the very least, intodeep's eyering bolts on the sides of his carriage are rotated 90 degrees from what I believe to be correct. I ask you, is that not sufficient justification?

<snickering softly at the extension of logic>

Of course, it is occuring to me, and I am making this possible fact up as justification for my possible historical sins, that there may have been an improvised carriage or two made back in the olden days. Since few, if any of these imrovised carriages survived to prove otherwise, I will use this made up fact as justification for my creation to being historically accurate to something that no one can prove never existed

I am making a somewhat scale model of this big gun while waiting for the big Hern barrel to arrive (about 6 weeks off I think). This "model" will be used to work out the conceptual and proportional bugs. While the final results of this scale prototype will be posted in "backyard cannon fun", some of the construction details will be posted in this thread... not only to make it really long, but to help out the owner of the identical twin of the barrel I will be using for the sub-scale prototype.

Since pictures are way more fun than words, I will start posting pictures of the whole dual-shebang-in-progress shortly.

Rickk · « **Reply #25 on:** April 29, 2007, 01:01:55 AM »

Yesterday I cut the wood for my smaller "prototype"... I slept on it (or didn't sleep actually) and came to the realization that I'm tossing the wood and starting over... good thing I'm doing this on 10 bucks worth of 3/4" instead of $125 worth of 3 inch.

Anyway, here is my realization... Tropico, read this, as I read about your 6 pack based on scaled up CVA naval cannon design !!

My "floor" was going to be one single horizontal piece. That's not how they did it way back when, but that was my plan. That is how CVA did it with their "naval cannon kit"... makes cutting the wood way easier.

An original would not have a single, fulll length "floor" There would be a front part... pretty much horizontal. Then would be a rear part that the Quion would sit on. It slopes downward going toward the front of the gun. I'm still trying to figure out the angle from my Consitution drawings... maybe something like 1 inch drop in 16 inch run? I think the angle would be dependant on the angle of the quoin, the trunnion location and the radius of the back half of the barrel... calculated based on leverages of wedges and tangential forces... probably quite scientific all of a sudden.

An original has an open floor in the middlle... it does not span the entire length at all.

What made me loose sleep over all this? I had (and still have) the CVA kit. The Quion sits on this flat hrizontal piece, and the weight of the barrel keeps sqeezing it out the back. How many on Ebay are missing the quion? I'm pretty much poistive that the "floor" that the quoin sits on is angled upward to help stop them from sqeezing or falling out.

An added feature is that if it sits outside there will be less horizontal area to collect water.

So, off to the hardware store for more 3/4 inch oak, as I mortised out a slot to accept the horizontal floor that I'm not using any more.

Double D · « **Reply #26 on:** April 29, 2007, 06:20:51 AM »

Rick look these plans over and see if you can get any Ideas. I have them in my files listed a Carronade. If you need finer detail let me know and I will email them to you. I don't know where I got them. You may already have them.

Tropico · « **Reply #27 on:** April 29, 2007, 07:22:07 AM »

Oh I have been paying attention., I am actually looking forward to this build myself., Thats a good cannon and this will surely prove to be a winner. Myself I have always used a full length floor board. Tho it may be wrong I can get alot of strength from it. I usually dado a groove along both cheeks and lock in the floor. Your ideas on tilting the floor are great. I will definitely need to do something like this for the 6-pack Wes is building since we do not want water sitting in the carriages. This will be a great thread. If I can I shall "Pirate" some of your ideas where I can.

lendi · « **Reply #28 on:** April 29, 2007, 08:46:02 AM »

Rick,
Here is some food for thought. Customer requested this bench design for his Parrot cannon. The brass rails are screwed to the wood rails. The front of the bench is mortised into the transum and the rear block and bench are bolted through the rear axel. Appropriate groves were cut in the quoin. Lots of friction so that the quoin won't slide. I have used abrasive paper glued to the bottom of the quoin to remedy the problem. Also have included a pic of a Spanish era carriage. That was for a Dutch Indies VOC barrel. Has a splid bottom. Good luck in your design.
Len
Duck Island Cannon Works

Rickk · « **Reply #29 on:** April 29, 2007, 11:47:45 AM »

All the advice, pictures, drawings are appreciated, and will probably all enter into the equation a little bit.

I said I would post some pictures... due to the design changes, they are not that far along, but here is where we are at...

With the big gun, the barrel is probably 4-6 weeks out yet. Here is 100 or so board feet of 3 inch thick white oak drying (exciting as watching grass grow ?) The ends are Emer's glued up to help prevent cracking. I ws going to use wax, but my dad suggested Elmer's... easy to apply.

Moving onto the smaller prototype, we have wheels (the big one will have cast iron wheels) :

We have one of the two new sides in progress. I stuck pieces of wood into the mortises to make the locations more visable. I glued the two sides together... putting the glue on the part that will be scrap after I cut the classic "stair-step" pattern in the sides, to make it easier to cut them both at once and hopefully have them be identical. While I am an engineer, and could have calculated things to death, I like round numbers... The length is 10 inches, the height is 5 inches. The mortices each occupy 4 inches of the 10 inch length (The tqape measure is a bit distored in the picture... the numbers are pretty much exact). The mortices are 3/4 inch wide (a board's thickness) and 3/4 inch from the bottom. The rear mortice angle is 5 degrees, because 10 degrees looked too much and I wanted round numbers. The depth of the mortices is 1/8 inch. The floor pieces are 4 inches wide, yielding 3.75 inches wide after considering the mortices.

And this is the prototype gun barrel, an awesome bit of work from Michael at Brooks

Note the location of my 5 year old son's naval cannon with respect to the visitors in my yard. This picture was taken while taking the rest of the pictures. These are "wild" turkeys, but they are always looking for a handout.

I'm off to Alabama for a couple days due to work, so no more progress till end of the week.