Author Topic: What would you do? (Read 2046 times)

ATR · « **on:** March 31, 2007, 02:43:36 AM »

Say you stop in a mom and pop store to get a drink as you walk back to the register you see a dude pointing a handgun at the clerk demanding money. You have your conceal carry gun and a cell phone what would you do?

jpsmith1 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 31, 2007, 03:04:00 AM »

Too vague. First step would be to call 911, obviously. You would need to take up a safe position and monitor the situation. As a citizen, inserting yourself into that situation would escalate it, possibly causing the robber to shoot the clerk, then, you are at fault for that.

If the situation escalates by itself and the robber reaches the point of violence, then step in with gun drawn.

NONYA · « **Reply #2 on:** March 31, 2007, 04:35:12 AM »

shoot him in the face,pay for soda,drive slowly out of parking lot.

S.S. · « **Reply #3 on:** April 01, 2007, 02:15:46 PM »

I would do my best to center my round in the back of his head between his ears to make sure he did not twitch and shoot the Clerk..
A completely justified shooting where I live.
justifiable =
(1) To save my life
(2) To save life of innocent
(3) To stop fleeing felon or commission of felony.

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #4 on:** April 01, 2007, 02:58:59 PM »

That must be Texas. Here in the PRC you'd most likely get fried even if the clerk was not hurt.

Nuttinbutchunks · « **Reply #5 on:** April 01, 2007, 04:47:17 PM »

I would probably draw my gun form a covered position, order him to drop his gun. If he didn't, or he made any move contrary to what I told him to do, I would shoot him.

williamlayton · « **Reply #6 on:** April 01, 2007, 11:34:59 PM »

Who really knows--time and space theories are invalid.
Blessings

Mikey · « **Reply #7 on:** April 02, 2007, 12:28:56 AM »

Shoot for the back of the head or the base of the neck. Secure his firearm. Secure my empty brass, if possible. Pay for my cold drink and drive slowly out of the parking lot. Mikey.

canon6 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 02, 2007, 04:44:48 AM »

I am with jpsmith1 on this one,to escalate a threat to a actual fire fight is at best problematic Doug

LEO · « **Reply #9 on:** April 02, 2007, 07:38:49 AM »

While answering the hypothetical situations is always a bit of a guessing game, here goes. Based on the scenario you presented the BG doesn't know you are there, if you are discovered it may well escalate the situation. Your best recourse would appear to be to retreat to a position of cover, draw and cover the BG, assess the situation, is there anyone else there, what is the emotional state of the BG, does it appear they are about to shoot or is the gun more of a prop (I know this could go either way but something to consider) etc. Forget you have the cell phone, the time for talking on the phone is past, you do not want to divide your attention between the threat area and a dispatcher plus it increases your chances of discovery by the BG. Now if you are able to retreat from the building to a safe location by all means do so and call 911 but in the store is not the place. After briefly evaluating the situation you must make the decision to wait or to engage, personally if I am in the situation you set forth and I decide to engage, I will probably not challenge the BG I will probably just shoot (I know the law varies on this from area to area and you must follow the laws that apply to you as a CCW, my agency policy which governs my response says I don't have to if doing so endangers myself or another which in this case I think it would). If you do engage maintain a position of cover until the Police arrive, more than one person has been killed approaching a "dead" BG. Make sure that your weapon is put away as soon as you see the Police arrive on scene and carefullly follow their instructions it is literally life or death important. If you decide that the situation does not warrant shooting then remain in your position of cover until the BG has left and concentrate on being the best witness you can if you decide to get involved when the Police arrive, once again make sure your firearm is out of sight when they arrive. One thing is for sure anyone who carries a gun needs to think about these things before they are in the situation, playing "what if" helps you to stay alert to your surroundings and to be thinking in advance of a plan for a given situation.

PeterCartwright · « **Reply #10 on:** April 02, 2007, 12:01:56 PM »

I'm with jpsmith1 on this one. In your scenario, I'm all alone, a civilian, without ballistic protection, and not at all clear about the mindset of the holdup dude. The last thing I want to do is make a really bad situation infinitely worse. Until shots are fired I'm not likely to get involved, if I can help it. I'm a civilian CCW holder, not a cop. Better to seek cover and be a really good witness while remaining prepared to intervene only if it becomes a "worst case scenario".

NONYA · « **Reply #11 on:** April 02, 2007, 01:46:35 PM »

Why give the perp a chance to react or take a hostage,shoot him before he even knows u r there,in my state if u feel threatened u can use deadly force,shoot the sob and split.

K.K · « **Reply #12 on:** April 02, 2007, 02:16:12 PM »

With today's court system and media, if you shoot, you'd better be willing to face the real possibility of at least civil suit, if not criminal. I know that it is ridiculous, but it's the world we live in. the case may never make it to court, but if you miss, hit the clerk, or fail to stop the assailant, and someone gets shot, it may be on you. Remember, you are accountable for where each bullet goes.

This is a very interesting question, and I'm sure that you will get many good responses. Maybe I'm playing Devil's advocate, but although I'd probably shoot, there is a lot to consider, and we don't always have time to think about it before the lead flies.

S.S. · « **Reply #13 on:** April 02, 2007, 03:17:09 PM »

I stand by my first response to shoot him. If he walks out of that store,
I have not done my duty as an armed civilian. Challenging someone to a firefight is not a good Idea. End it quickly and less chance of more innocent bystanders being injured.
If he walks out of that store, the next place he goes crazy could be a day care center or a shopping mall.. Could not live with myself knowing I could have stopped him. Why even carry a weapon in the first place if I would not use it to protect an innocent.. Imagine if that was
your son or daughter behind that counter? Sure bet you would want someone to protect them....I would.

mmwb · « **Reply #14 on:** April 03, 2007, 05:29:10 AM »

The key point here for me is that he is holding his firearm on the clerk. I cannot, with confidence, know that I can shoot him with out a resulting "twitch" that will result in the clerk being shot. If his gun is brandished, but not pointed directly at the clerk.... One must know the laws of his state and remain within the bounds of those laws. If an Innocent is killed, because the law is too restrictive to the concealed carrier, then in my book that death is the responsibility of the state, not the law abiding concealed carrier. The trick is the formulation and support of laws that allow us to protect each other, without too much leeway for the odd smoking gun to carried away within...

NONYA · « **Reply #15 on:** April 03, 2007, 05:42:00 AM »

Get your target centered and let out a loud "hey,he will turn and bring his waepon around when he does,shoot as he comes around,its a simple tactic and will remove the clerk from his"twitch" bullet.

cherokee75 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 03, 2007, 10:56:41 AM »

I think you are all wrong! Haven't you seen the movie Cobra with Sly Stallone? That's how you handle bad guys in a grocery store! LOL

454Puma · « **Reply #17 on:** April 03, 2007, 02:36:51 PM »

S.Sumner
(1) To save my life
(2) To save life of innocent
(3) To stop fleeing felon or commission of felony

I'm with you but I'll add a (4) Protected from civil suit in justified shooting
God I love my state!!! Yep no warning he'll just have an extra hole or two in his head!!
It's not about being/or acting as a cop either-it's about taking our streets back from scum who pray on the weak !!
They can be law abiding hard work Americans or scum bags that take what isn't there's! They make the choice so some have to pay the price.

Graybeard · « **Reply #18 on:** April 03, 2007, 04:44:40 PM »

The new law now on the books here in Bama would let you pop the dude and end the situation. I'm sure however that if you did and he reflexifly shot the clerk you'd then be in deep doo doo. I'd likely wait until he turned to go before confronting him so his weapon at least wasn't pointed at the clerk.

454Puma · « **Reply #19 on:** April 04, 2007, 06:07:48 PM »

Graybeard
Yea if I could see if he had finger on trigger or safety off or even if he/she had a mag in gun! Criminals aren't to smart to begin with!! And alot of them don't even have bullets in the gun!

Not that I care if they point one at me all bets are off!!

papajohn428 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 15, 2007, 10:28:39 AM »

I'm not about to turn a simple robbery into a gunfight if I don't need to. I'd wait to see if he was violent toward the clerk, or if he just wanted to grab the cash and split. But if she hands it over and he acts like he's going to shoot her anyway, I put one at the base of the ear, maybe a second shot if he doesn't drop immediately. I'd also use the noise trick to distract him if possible, to get his gun pointed away from the clerk. Then I'd drop him like a bad habit.

If he takes the cash and leaves, I'll haul out the phone, try to keep him in sight, and get the cops involved ASAP, hopefully steering them to his location. They get paid to take down bad guys, and they wear body armor. If all I have is a sweatshirt and a .380, I'll stand by as they "Shock & Awe" him into submission, then write out a statement, and go home.

Papajohn

NONYA · « **Reply #21 on:** April 17, 2007, 10:04:56 AM »

a man pointing a gun at a store clerk HAS ALREADY PERFORMED A VIOLENT OFFENSE,you try to talk him down and your going to end up DEAD.

Old Griz · « **Reply #22 on:** April 17, 2007, 06:11:16 PM »

Our DA tells this story when he goes over the liability section of the permit process.

A CCW holder in Pennsylvania walked in on the very situation described here in this question. He pulled his gun and fired at the holdup man. Missed. The robber shot at him. Missed. The customer fired again. Missed again. Robber's turn. Missed. Customer's third shot. Got 'em. Good news - bad guy dead.

Bad news: The customer's first shot hit and killed the clerk. His second shot hit and killed a 14 year old boy working in the cooler stocking soft drinks. He wound up killing everyone in the store.

How'd the old song go? "If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all . . ."

williamlayton · « **Reply #23 on:** April 18, 2007, 12:03:18 AM »

You may not be held responsible for the BG but will be for any others you injure.
Blessings

rockbilly · « **Reply #24 on:** April 18, 2007, 06:26:38 AM »

If the decision is made to shoot, then the decision should be made to KILL the BG, therefore, several well placed bullet to the head or heart area.

It is awful hard for anyone to defend the action, or intent, of a bad guy if he can't testify against you. Here in Texas, if you perceive your life, or the life of another to be in danger, then deadly force is permitted. So do your duty, save the state the cost of a trail.

mardrobe · « **Reply #25 on:** April 21, 2007, 09:46:29 AM »

These type of discussions cause thinking about our reactions which is their main value. I would complicate the senario with the following point. I am often accompanied by my wife and or other family members when entering convenience stores. I would probably be parked just outside the door so the Gunman would potentially put them in danger when leaving. My initial thought is that I should do everything possible to keep the individual from leaving the store and potentially threatening them. Any thoughts on this situation?

PaulS · « **Reply #26 on:** April 21, 2007, 10:02:42 PM »

Let me preface this with: It is my understanding that in Washington State, where I live, in order to use deadly force I have to be in fear for my life or the life of another or taking action to stop a felony in progress. With this in mind here is what I do:

since I have not been noticed I can get to a concealed position, turn off my phone, draw my gun, and wait while I assess the situation. This guy may be a family member joking around with his brother, using a toy gun. I need time to be sure that a felony is indeed in progress. If it turns out that a felony is in progress I have to be sure that the BG is alone or that I can neutralize any partners that he may have without endangering the clerk. I will be looking at the area behind the BG because that is where my bullet is going after it goes through him. If the BG shoots the clerk and remains in my view long enough for me to shoot him the I will do that, providing my shot will not endanger anyone on the far side of my target. If he doesn't shoot and simply turns to run then it is over. No one is any longer in danger and I cannot stop the felony. If I am spotted at any time then I would be forced to shoot, twice.

I wish I could say that I would draw my gun and shoot him but there was a child shot waving a toy gun around at the wrong time. He was not associated in or with any crime but a crime had been committed in the area and a good Samaritan killed the boy thinking he was going to shoot him.
I learned in forensics class that things are not always what they appear to be.
The shop owners can sue you for shooting your gun to protect them in their store. And win!

Now, if you had asked what I would do if I came upon a child being raped what would I do..... but you didn't.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #27 on:** April 23, 2007, 04:22:10 AM »

Several people have suggested that they would coolly and calmly pop the perp in the head. Well, maybe so, but I can promise that in such a real life scenario you will be anything but cool and calm. I know I would be shaking from toes to nose. Fine accuracy on the range has nothing to do with shooting in a life threatening situation. In reality, nearly all gunfights are "spray and pray" because in reality, even John Wayne was not John Wayne.

Mickthetaxidermist · « **Reply #28 on:** May 05, 2007, 12:24:45 PM »

Very interesting thread for sure. Little "what if" scenarios like this, are excellent conditioning for those who choose to carry. Some spoke of the "shakes" that an adrenaline dump would likely bring about, on the other hand, mental practice beforehand makes exceptional conditioning for a time that any of us should encounter a true "do or die" situation. Ultimately, if you're not mentally prepared to squeeze the trigger beforehand, if you're ever put into that situation in real life, then you may be best off in not drawing your weapon. Hesitation at the moment of truth, very likely might only serve to get yourself dead, as well as other innocent bystanders. FWIW

BIG Dog454 · « **Reply #29 on:** May 07, 2007, 04:18:18 AM »

When it happens, all thoughts would go out the window. I've had a gun pulled on me! and I just did whatever I was told. That was before CCW was in effect here. If you need to pull your gun when someone is shooting at you, I would think that you should have done a lot of practice doing instinct shooting, to the point that when you see your target you can then close you eyes and hit it.
I hope that you are able to keep your cool. If all they want is the money let them have it, better broke then dead, you can always get some more money.
If you are ever in a situation where you are confronted with a bad guy and a gun, I pray that you come out OK.