Author Topic: My Raging Bull .454 Cylinder locked up?  (Read 1749 times)

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Offline akbearhunter

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My Raging Bull .454 Cylinder locked up?
« on: April 03, 2007, 12:20:22 AM »
I was shooting at the range last Saturday...and after shooting my first round...I was unable to pull the hammer back? Another fellow at the range helped me open the gun up...unlocking the front and rear of the cylinder...while I pushed on the cylinder?

My load was 31.5 gr. of WW-296, Starline brass, CCI 450 SR Primers, with a 300 gr. Hornady XTP. What I found was a pierced primer...and all I could figure out was that when I pierced the primer...the rebounding firing pin did not retract...and continued holding the cylinder...preventing it from rotating.

Has anyone else had this type of problem with their raging Bulls? Could it be that my firing pin needs smoothing up???

Hunt with the wind in your face, honesty in all your dealings with others, and forget not to praise our Creator for yet another day...

Offline corbanzo

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Re: My Raging Bull .454 Cylinder locked up?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2007, 11:17:40 AM »
I havent seen it in another RB.   Does your firing pin seem to be misshaped?  If you have another revolver in a similar caliber handy, you might try and compare the two firing pins to eachother to see if the slope is too steep. 

Overall you could have one of four problems:

firing pin misshaped, firing pin spring too weak, hammer spring too strong, primer too weak. 

I would put some more rounds through it and see what happens, you might just have a fluke.
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline Luckyducker

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Re: My Raging Bull .454 Cylinder locked up?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2007, 12:45:16 PM »
Is this a load you have shot in this revolver before?  According to my data this load is over Max Load by 1.5 grains, but this isn't always the culprit as I have used some loads that were over published data without any bad events.  If this is the first time to use this setup then I think you are over pressure and need to back the charge down a little.

Offline Camba

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Re: My Raging Bull .454 Cylinder locked up?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2007, 06:02:42 PM »
As a matter of fact.  I do get the exact symptoms with my Taurus 218 Bee Tracker.  My first thought was that I was using max loads.  Then, as I tried to check the loads and observe the results, I've noticed that the same load, when used (one full cylinder) the first time, everything looks great.  Then, the same load, second cylinder full and the first shot... the cylinder gets stuck.  To prove my theory, I decided to clean the cylinder after every cylinder full test and the problem went away.  Otherwise, I always thought that the primer and the firing pin were stuck.  My conclusion:  If the cylinder chamber is dirty (oil, powder residue, other), I will end up with a cratered primer.  Lighter loads have less problems than that but that isn't fun since the max velocity I've got is 2000 fps with more common velocities in the 1800 fps.

Unless, of course my theory is wrong.  I am all ears to see other opinions.

Camba

Offline The Old Redneck

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Re: My Raging Bull .454 Cylinder locked up?
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2007, 11:22:49 AM »
   Years ago S&W came out with the 22 Jet in a revolver. With it I learned just a little oil could cause case set back and the cylinder to lock. I shoot the Taurus Raging hornet and had the 218 bee Tracker. You can have the cylinder clean and dry, and after a cylinder full of rounds fired have enough oil work out of the extractor rod area to cause the problems your having with the Bee. Some of our new and improved lubes can work into these places quickly. I have shot both the Hornet and Bee, hundeds of times each and as long as I kept the loads below max, and cylinders oil free had no problems. For my Raging Bull in 454 I load a little lower than I do for my single actions in the 454, and have had no problems with it. Holes in primers and cylinders locking up with hand loads make me back off the load reguardless of what I'm shooting. Good luck.

Offline Camba

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Re: My Raging Bull .454 Cylinder locked up?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2007, 04:03:01 PM »
"...Some of our new and improved lubes can work into these places quickly..."

The Old Red Neck:

What do you mean by the statement above?  If I think what I think you are saying, what brand of oil should I use for that?

BTW, thank you for the advice.  I will back up the load to the point that will not over pressure when dirty.  Since this is not a defense gun (more in the varmint cleaning side) I can keep on cleaning the cylinder Chambers after every use.

Any one else had better results with the 218 Bee?

Camba

Offline sniper2u00

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Re: My Raging Bull .454 Cylinder locked up?
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2007, 04:39:45 PM »
Camba What powder was that Bee load with?  I think you answered a post of mine awhile back in regards to a Raging Bee(218) I bought. Well my experience last weekend kinda fits this post.I finally took it to the range last weekend and the 2nd shot locked up the cylinder! This was a moderate load of Hodgdon Lil'gun(Not near the max).I tried a smaller load of Lil'gun and had similar results. The first round shot ok then the cylinder locked up and the primers showed signs of high presser.After some thinking a friend said to try holding the gun barrel up(vertical) before firing so the powder was all at the back of the case. Then set it on the bags and fire! It worked they all shot fine after doing that.Evidently if the Lil'gun was at the front of the case when fired it caused a major pressure spike!!!I even had some loads made up of the Lil'gun that were near max that shot fine as long as that procedure was followed and the powder was at the back of the case.I'll post more when I have more time and have the chronograph results with me.No more Lil'gun in the Bee for me ;)

Offline The Old Redneck

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Re: My Raging Bull .454 Cylinder locked up?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2007, 01:37:24 AM »
  Sir, an easy way to see if it is the lube is to look under the extractor when you eject your cases. The area under it will be moist/wet with the oil. Several brands of the lubes with synthetic additives will move under pressure better than some of the old machine oils. Even the old oils can work their way out from under the extractor into the chambers. Bottle neck and tapered cases in revolvers do not grip the chamber walls as well as straight wall cases. That is why even a little lube or oil can cause setback. When the Jet came out years ago, people that shot it pulled their hair out trying to figure out why the cylinders would lock up, I know, I was one of them. That is why I load and shoot the bottle neck revolvers different. I use a water base case lube made by Lee to resize, and then make sure they are clean after reloading. I use the Lee crimp die, and crimp the bullets. On the Hornet, and most Bee loads I use pistol primers, these are not max loads, and the pistol primers usually give less spread on these two rounds when you shoot them over the chrony. The Bee and Hornet are fun to hunt with out of a revolver, keep playing with it and find what works best for you and your gun. Not all of these revolvers are alike, one of the guys I shoot with some has a 218 Bee tracker that seems to shoot anything. He is not one to ever clean anything until it just will not function, go figure? I usually shoot 50 to 150 rounds when I'm shooting the bee or hornet, and do not have to clean them while I'm shooting. I shot the Bee over 200 times several trips with out cleaning until after I got home. I traded my bee off for a big bore that I wanted more, should have just bought it and had both.

Offline Camba

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Re: My Raging Bull .454 Cylinder locked up?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2007, 06:45:54 PM »
Sniper2u00:

I had been loading my 218 Bee Tracker with the following powders:
Gun:  218 Bee Tracker, 6.5" bbl
Bullet:  Remington 45gr JHP (Hornet)
Powders:
Lil'Gun: (8.0 to 9.7gr) Very accurate between 9.0 and 9.7gr (lock cyl and cratered primers at the second full cyl. round.

H4198: (13.0 to 14.0gr)  Very accurate at 14.0gr but has the problem that we discuss (lock cyl. some times)

Bullseye: (4.0 to 5.0gr)  This gave me great accuracy a few times but hard to duplicate load.

Blue Dot:  (4.5 to 8.0gr) This one gives me the most consistency (this powder is my best)

H110: (9.0gr) I have not experimented enough with this one

AA1680: (13.5 to 14gr) I have not made much with this yet.  First impressions:  too dirty.

I have had the same problem (lock cylinder and cratered primers at one point to another will all the above powders.  I happen to believe that dirty chamber is one cause.  Another is that if they shoot hot (because dirty chamber), the cartridge blows back to the flat part (where the firing pin is) and swells.  This locks the cylinder and it will also show cratered primer.  The velocities I've got from those loads are between 1300 to 2000 fps.  More commonly in the 1750 to 1800fps range.

Disclaimer: This loads are strictly developed for my 218 Bee tracker gun.  Same type of gun may perform different than mine.  Use your own safety judgment.

Camba