Finding the lands

[DGF]

I have been reading these forums for a little while now and decided to try reloading for rifles. I just received my Lee Anniversary Kit in the mail today with my dies for .223 and .270. I can't wait to get set up and reloading.

My question is regarding bullet seating depth in relation to the the lands. How do you all go about finding out how far you are from the lands? I've tried setting a bullet in a case and chambering it thinking that resistance from the lands would seat the bullet in the case at the point of contact with the lands to no avail. My oal is all over the board with this method, sometimes with the bullet getting pulled out of the case all together. If it helps I am shooting a H&R Ultra Varmint .223 and will be loading Hornady 50 gr. V-Max .224 bullets.

Thanks for all help,
Dan

[Glanceblamm]

DGF, Welcome To Graybeard Outdoors

I would start the reloading with both calibers at their published OAL and see how they do.
After this, I drop a bullet into the breech and lightly hold it there with a dowl (pencil eraser end) and insert my one piece stainless cleaning rod into the muzzle till it just does touch the bullet.
At this point, a mark is made on the rod right at the muzzle. The bullet is then removed and the rod is re-inserted and allowed to bottom out against the bolt and a second mark is made on the rod. You then measure between the two marks to get your ROUGH oal.

Some adjustment may be nessary after seating to this lenght. Some like to soot up the bullet with a match and make small adjustments to where the soot is scraped off by the rifling, but no mark is left on the bullet.
It seems to me that the lighter calibers like your .224 actually shoot better with the bullet backed off the lands by .010 while the 30 cal wants to be right against the lands.
Alot of sources figure that the bullet should be seated into the case at least as deep as it's diameter to make the above worth doing.
Hope this helps some.

[Val]

Be advised, on many hunting rifles, the length of the magazine is the limiting factor in bullet OAL.  If you seat the bullet to the lands they may not fit in the rifle magazine.

[myarmor]

That won't be necessary sense he is loading a single shot H&R.
Dan you may not be able to reach the lands in your H&R as many Handi rifles, the NEF counterpart and same rifle, are notorious for having long throats. If you load them according to the recommended OCL you should be ok. I load for the exact same rifle, and I can't reach the lands with 50gr V-Maxs.
If the recommended OCL doesn't shoot well, then back them out a hair, but try it first.
Loading for an single shot is nice, if your cases are sized and go in flush with the breach, you can seat out a bullet and visually see if you have reached the lands as the cartridge won't go all the way in the chamber. Again assuming your cases are sized correctly.
If you need more info on loading for them check out the NEF/H&R Centerfire forum.
Smoking a dummy round is still the way I use, and use a oil lamp with the wick pulled out farther, it really suets up a bullet really qucikly.

You will also find that certain bullets will have a longer OCL to touch the lands when loaded as they have a different O-Give. Like a difference in a bullet like a blunter Remington Core-Lokts and long sleek Nosler ballistic tips.

O and welcome to GBO, and to reloading.


-Aaron

[victorcharlie]

neck size a non primed, non charged case and size just enough to hold the bullet lightly.

Soft seat the bullet, fairly far out.

Use a lit candle and smoke the bullet.

Chamber the cartridge.  Land marks should be seen on the bullet.

Adjust the seating depth on the die and smoke the bullet again.

Continue the process until your just off the lands and measure the over all length.  This is your maximum overall length.

Lipstick, among other things can be used instead of a candle.

hope this is what your trying to achieve.......VC

[catman]

neck size a non primed, non charged case and size just enough to hold the bullet lightly.

Soft seat the bullet, fairly far out.

Use a lit candle and smoke the bullet.

Chamber the cartridge.  Land marks should be seen on the bullet.

Adjust the seating depth on the die and smoke the bullet again.

Continue the process until your just off the lands and measure the over all length.  This is your maximum overall length.

Lipstick, among other things can be used instead of a candle.

hope this is what your trying to achieve.......VC

What he said, make sure it fits in the mag box....

[myarmor]

.....................If it helps I am shooting a H&R Ultra Varmint .223 and will be loading Hornady 50 gr. V-Max .224 bullets.

Thanks for all help,
Dan

Unless he is using a bolt action in his 270, there is no mag involved for the H&R 223...it's a single shot

[PaulS]

I always use the "as tested O/all length" when working up my loads. The reason I do that is that I once tried to do the "seating out to the lands" bit with a starting load in my 3006. The powder was W760 and I had used it with that 165 grain bullet before. My rifle has so much free bore that I could barely seat that bullet before it came close to the lands. The rounds that I used were standard cartridges with a bullet barely stuck in the neck. The first two rounds fired but sounded kind of funny - almost like a cap and ball sound. The third round went pop and then after about a half second it let loose with the loudest boom I had ever heard from any gun at the range. After I recovered and the rangemaster came over to make sure I didn't blow anything up I opened the bolt of my 3006. The cartridge that cam out looked more like a British 303 than the 3006 I had put in there. The base had expanded oversize and the rest of the cartridge was stretched out of all proportion. The primer pocket was almost a quarter inch in diameter and the primer fell out on the floor. I stopped shooting and took my gun, cartridges and load data to my gunsmith. He checked the rifle out and it was fine. He examined the case and told me that I was lucky. I had experienced a detonation without getting hurt. Apparently, there was enough room in the case with a starting load and the bullet seated out that far the the primer went of only igniting a few pieces of powder. some in the front of the cartridge and some at the back. it was just enough to let the powder start to sizzle until the pressure built up and then it burned so fast from both ends that when the pressure wave hit the center of the powder mass it exploded instead of burning. When this usually happens it is blamed on a double load or a bad piece of equipment but the result is usually far worse than my experience. At the very least it usually destroys the gun but more often than not it injures someone. Sometimes the shooter is injured and sometimes the guy next to him are hurt by flying debris. I figure I used up all my luck on that one time. I now follow the load exactly as it is listed and seat my bullets to the prescribed depth. My rifles shoot sub MOA groups when they are seated to the recommended o/all length so I don't even try to get close to the lands. My gun is an old military rifle and it has a lot of freebore so I leave things where they are and go on living.
Always be careful when you change anything on a published load.

[Catfish]

I like to size the neck just enough to hold the bullet where it is at the time. With a very lite size on the neck you will be able to to find the depth to the lands. If you start working up loads form suggested starting you should be safe with the bullets seated into the lands. I`m working with a wildcat right now and jamming the bullet .030 deep into the lands for fire forming. While I never seen it recomand to do this I have found that when useing very heavy for the cal. bullets that I get better accuracy with the bullets jamed into the rifleings. This will raise presure faster and you will not be able to use as heavy of load though.