MEC 600JR?

[BDavis]

I'm new to this forum, shot shell reloading and, the very confused owner of a used MEC 600 that I bought a while back. First let me say that I've been reloading metallic rifle and handgun for many years and have just recently become interested in shot gun reloading. I'm having a lot of problems with the final crimp stage on this machine. Some come out almost factory looking, then, for no apparent reason it will put out some rounds that look like they were ran over by a truck. Some are squashed and show a bulge down near the base, while others have serious deformities in the crimp. I'm using once fired Win. AA hulls and Win. components and trying my best to do everything the same from one stage to the next. But I can't get any consistency in my crimps.
I've downloaded the manual from MEC and tried making some adjustments in the crimp die but nothing seems to work. Am I doing something wrong? Or, is there some trick to this that is not in the manual? Or, (just my luck) did I get a bum deal on this machine?
Thanks,B.     

[Val]

Your problem could still be press crimp adjustment but it could also be a function of the load recipes. What load are you trying to work up? Sometimes recipes that are called out are a bit too much to fit into the hulls. Particularly with Winchester AA hulls which have a taper to them and will hold less than a Remington hull. The indication of this as the possible source of this problem is the bulging you are reporting. What kind of a load are you trying to achieve and what recipe are you using?

[.45 COLT]

Just a thought - wad pressure. If you are running too light, the wad might not be seating correctly in the hull, and could cause the intermittent good load/bad load you're seeing. I usually run 30 pounds or so, not really anything critical.

DC

[George Foster]

If you are using the new style AA cases it is probably a crimping problem.  I would suggest lowering your crimp starter till you only have a hole in the case the size of pencil eraser.  The Mec presses are the best on the market but the new cases whether they be Win or Rem can and do cause problems.

[BDavis]

Thanks for the suggestions. The load I'm trying is a 12ga 7/8oz of #9 shot using Win.  AA hulls and AA12L wads, Win 209 primers and 15grs of 700-X. It's a load I got from the Hornady website that should give around 1100fps.
I've tried adjusting the final crimp die but it made very little difference. I didn't try adjusting the crimp starter stage so that may fix my problem. I'll try that next chance I get. Thanks again.........Later,B.   

[Graybeard]

I have all those components but not the wads. If you'd like to send me a few of them I'll mess around with that load on my MEC and see what it's doing and might be able to give you a bit of advice on what adjustments are needed. It's really kinda hard to diagnose such a problem when you can't actually see it. I'd say 8 or ten wads would be more than adequate to experiment with and get a better feel for what's happening and some idea of what to tell you to do.

[BDavis]

I have all those components but not the wads. If you'd like to send me a few of them I'll mess around with that load on my MEC and see what it's doing and might be able to give you a bit of advice on what adjustments are needed. It's really kinda hard to diagnose such a problem when you can't actually see it. I'd say 8 or ten wads would be more than adequate to experiment with and get a better feel for what's happening and some idea of what to tell you to do.

E-Mail sent.............Later,B.

[BDavis]

Bill, your email is not working. However, I sent the WAA12L wads out yesterday. Thanks again for your help with my crimp troubles......Later,B.

[Graybeard]

Several folks have made a similar comment lately but I seem to be getting just as many e-mails as normal coming thru every day so it clearly must be working fairly well at least. Got no clue what's going on with it.

I just set up my 12 ga MEC on the bench this afternoon with my 7/8 oz bar and it's loaded with 700X powder. I checked the powder charge being dropped and it's 15.9 grains from my #28 bushing. Which bushing are you using? My #27 was only dropping 14.5 so I moved up one to the #28 bushing. I plan to load me up some loads using Clay Buster wads to see if they will function my Rem1100 G3. If not I'll adjust until they do. But I'm set up and ready to run with this when your wads arrive.

[BDavis]

Thanks Bill,
 I'm not using bushings. I've got several powder measures that I use for metallic loading, so I set up one of my RCBS Uniflows beside my MEC and throw charges from it. It may seem awkward to experienced shotshell re-loaders, but I'm used to loading on a single stage press so it feels natural to me. And, I don't have to buy a bunch of different bushings to get the loads I want.
FWIW, 700X doesn't flow well through the Uniflow so I my switch to a different powder. If you have any suggestions I'd appreciate hearing them.
I have a supply of Unique, WW231, WW296 and 2400 on hand so if I can use any of them it would be great...........Later,B.

[Graybeard]

The little box of wads came today. I took them out to compare to the wads I've been using. The cup is about 1/8" or maybe only 1/10" shorter than the cup on the Clay Buster replacement for the Winchester wad. Otherwise they are identical in all respects.

I'm loading 15.9 grains and don't really have a bushing to toss less. I might weight a few at that weight but then .9 grain of 700X really isn't enough to make that much difference in the way the hull fills up and loads. So as a preliminary before I try to duplicate your load precisely let me explain how mine are working.

I've set up my press to give 40 pounds of wad pressure. Thirty pounds is the default setting that the pointer sets on when you're not even loading so I'm talking nearly no wad pressure and am sure I'm not at all collapsing the cushioning section of the wad. All I'm really doing is making sure the wad is seated firmly on the powder. As I said I'm loading an additional .9 grain of 700X over your stated load for my own use. I would have been using 15.5 had my bushing thrown what MEC says it would. But it doesn't. From my MEC press tho the charge weights of 700X are very consistent.

Using the AA hulls both the red and the gray handicap hulls the crimps are looking good. On a few there is a very slight depression but not very much. With .9 grain less powder and that slightly shorter cup on your Winchester brand wads I'm sure the cup of it will likely be a tad more but I'll try to find out tomorrow using your wads and your powder charge.

[Graybeard]

OK I think I'm now ready to explain what you need to do. First what I did.

I weighted out the powder charges to be sure I was getting what you're getting. I used your wads in my once fired AA hulls using Winchester 209 primers and 700X just as you are. I used absolutely minimal wad pressure and they loaded just perfectly looking like new shells.

So what I think you need to do is this:

1. Adjust your wad pressure for just enough to make sure the wad is fully seated on the powder. You want the little pressure indicator arrow to move only to about 30-40 pounds wad pressure. This will ensure you don't buckle the cushioning section of the wad.

2. Adjust your final crimp die. Loosen the nut and back off on the screw perhaps two full turns. While holding the screw steady with your screw driver tighten the nut again. Now try again. If hulls are still buckling back off on the screw a bit more. If your crimp is not quite what it needs to be but the hull isn't buckling you might want to add a bit more down to the screw. That's where you'll need to do the adjustments to stop the hull buckling and make sure you get an adequate crimp. Your load recipe is fine for the hull. I'd move to 15.5 grains 700X but that's me. Your chosen 15.0 is safe and adequate for the case.

Let me know how you come out after doing this.

Once I finished loading several with your recipe I went back to mine with the few wads left and was able to tell no difference in the way they loaded with my recipe of 15.9 grains than yours with 15.0 grains.

[the rifleman]

Sounds like Greybeard has the right set up. Let us know how it works for you.

Just a thought, but have you checked to see if the precimp spindex is free floaing? It should be easily turned, but over time with dirt build up, they can get sticky. This can cause poor final crimps, especailly with hulls that have been shot more than once.

[Graybeard]

I ran my loads with 15.9 grains of 700X over the chrono at the range the other day and was quite surprised to find it moving out at 1315 fps average. So I guess I'm changing my recommendation to you about going with 15.5 grains instead of your 15 grains. Even at 15.0 it is going to be moving faster than you're wanting I suspect. I'm going to back off one bushing size for my next batch but in my Rem. 1100 G3 the recoil wasn't a problem for me and it sure smacked the targets.

I did find that I don't shoot that G3 as well as I do the original Rem. 1100 or the 11-87 for some reason. I'm thinking seriously about having a custom O/U made for me by DeHaan to my specifications just to use a light 7/8 oz load in moving about 1150 fps.

[BDavis]

Bill, I'm a bit confused. What bushing do I need to use to get a 15-15.5 load of 700x? My Uniflo is just too erratic for me. And thanks again for your help with my little experiment.........Later,B.

[Graybeard]

According to the charts on MEC bushings a #26 bushing "should" throw 15.0 grains and a #27 bushing "should" throw 15.6 grains but in my experience MEC bushings almost always throw about what the next smaller bushing should throw. If you want 15.0 grains I suspect you'll come closer to getting it with a #27 than with a #26 but I'd still use the #26 if I were you and wanting the slower velocity with less recoil.

As I've mentioned above the 15.9 grains I dropped from my #28 or #29 (would have to look again to be sure which I used) is running 1315 fps average and that's a LOT faster than you were looking for and a good deal faster than I wanted as well. The next batch I load I'll likely back off two bushing sizes and try to get my powder charge a little below 15 grains. This is especially needed now that I got rid of the G3 and am now shooting a Browning Ultra XT O/U instead. I'll be trying it for the first time on Saturday with the 1315 fps loads and I'm taking some factory one ounce loads at 1150 fps as well.

[dakotashooter2]

You might want to invest in an adjustable charge bar. It will cost about the same as a full set of bushings but can be fine tuned for specific charges instead of just getting close like bushings do.

[Graybeard]

I've got one of those things. Hate it. I'll stick with the bars and bushing I need to do what I wanna do.