Author Topic: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?  (Read 1856 times)

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Offline Warthog

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Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« on: April 15, 2007, 01:22:23 PM »
As others have said on the forum, the extractor is not exactly hunter friendly.  I can honestly say I've never needy that speedy second shot (first shot lethal or just plain missed and didn't have time for a second shot anyway), but I do know it will happen and when it does I'll be using the Handi and not a bolt or lever action.  I have owned a TC and it seems to me that the extractor on the TC pushed the empty out far enough where I could grab it with a gloved hand.  The Handi only pushed the case out far enough that I really need fingernails to grab it.  Does anyone have any tricks for a quick reload or maybe a way to adjust the extractor to push the case out farther?  Thanks for all the info you guys always have.
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Offline aulrich

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2007, 07:36:20 AM »
The first step to speeding up follow up shots with a handi is a butt stock ammo holder (I just have an Uncle Mike's elastic one), having rounds in a convenient spot is step one.  There are 2 typical problems for me, can't grab the round or worst push the round back in.  can't grab the round is usually a cold weather thing with gloves on and there are ways around that.

But in the heat of the moment it is easy to push the round back in which will force you to close and reopen the action, really it is more like you knock it off of the extractor and if falls back in. To help get around that I twist the rifle away from me as I am opening it this ends up pointing the muzzle up keeping the round from falling back in.  Yes it is a bit of a draw back but I happily accept that draw back in exchange for zero stuck cases.

This past weekend I had one of my sons out shooting the hornet (ejector) I forgot to warn him and he ended up taking a case square on the teeth good thing it was not a big case or I'd be at the dentist today :).
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2007, 09:38:18 AM »
I suggest you dump that extractor barrel or save it for target or bench rest shooting when the weather is warm and you don't need gloves. I don't have problems with stuck cases with my ejector fitted barrels but I try to keep my chambers and ammo fairly clean and dry (oil and grease free). I have polished a couple of chambers that occasionally would give me problems and that cured that. It is still possible to get an ejector barrel in the caliber you want if you ask in the classifieds and are patient, I suggest if you want one you ask soon, as time goes by they will become more and more in demand for hunters and those of us in the colder climates, and as they rise in demand and no more are produced the price of ejector fitted barrels are going to rise accordingly over the new cheaper and less desirable extractor fitted barrels. There are those here that were going to look into the possibility of converting an extractor barrel to an ejector and I had hoped that remedy would have been figured out by now, but nothing yet. It is simple to either permanently or temporarily convert an ejector barrel to an extractor but unfortunately not so the other way around, and that is what is sorely needed. I suggest you look for and buy the ejector barrel you want NOW before they get to expensive....<><....:)
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Offline Fred M

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2007, 10:41:10 AM »
Thanks to all the whiners and complainers about stuck cases in ejector barrels you now have a cheap no good for nothing extractor to comply with the wishes of the complainers.

Find a 308 ejector barrel and go from there. There is only ignorance to blame
if you have stuck cases in an ejector barrel. The ejectors have to be tuned and the chambers polished. Brass for hunting must be well fitted and max loads avoided.
The chamber must clean and dry, no oil.

With my notch in the end of the barrel a stuck case is very easy and fast to
remove in an non hunting situation when you are out there and shoot multible rounds without cleaning the chamber. When shooting gophers using lots of ammo you get stuck cases until you clean the chamber again.

Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline Mac11700

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2007, 05:58:09 PM »
If you have to worry about needing a fast follow up shot with a extractor rifle...then try how I do it...The fastest and easiest for me is to just have 2 cartridges in my left hand with my ring finger in between..I start to rotate the rifle/shotgun counter clockwise 90 degrees ...while thumbing the action open and give a little downward motion on my right hand to help the barrel open....... then use my left index finger to slid the cartridge out enough to firmly grasp it between it and my thumb..pulling it out just enough to clear the extractor and let it drop..(picture turning a door knob with your left hand for the unloading aspect)..When my hand rolls and drops the spent cartridge.. it places the bottom cartridge I have between my pinkie and ring finger in line with the chamber...and I just start it and finish pushing it in with the back of my pinkie and ring finger with my thumb against the primer..while rotating the rifle/shotgun back clockwise to the correct position...your hand is moving toward the forearm with this motion and it is just a simple motion to bring it underneath it and close the action while thumbing the hammer back...

I got used to doing this a long time ago with single shot shotguns...The second cartridge is in case I drop the first and is mainly a back up...It takes some practice but most folks can manage it...I also shoot with real shooting gloves on...I started using them a long time ago when shooting competitive trap..I used this method while hunting doves...and took many a double with it...

As to having to sell it and get an ejector barrel...well...if it's a great shooter...a little practice will save you the hassle of having to do that...and uncertainty that comes with the  possibility of getting one that isn't as good as the one you have now...

Mac
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2007, 06:02:08 PM »
I wouldn't worry about using an extractor barrel, if millions of TC shooters can get used to an extractor, certainly any smart Handi owner should be able to!! ;)

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Warthog

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2007, 07:25:07 AM »
You're right, Tim.  Any 'smart Handi owner' should be able to do it, but we're talking about me.  ;D

I didn't have any problem with my TC because it pushed the shell up about 3/8" or a little better.  The Handi is just barely moving the rim above the edge of the barrel.  I appreciate the responses here and I'll sure give them a try.  Thanks.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2007, 07:39:23 AM »
Not that this will help ya any, but I measured the extractor lift on both of my TC Encore barrels and on the 3 H&R extractor barrels I have, the TC lifts are .181" on the 375H&H and .178" on the 7mm-08 barrels. H&Rs are .156" on the .500, .191" on the 204 Ruger and .202" on the 22-250.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline MSP Ret

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2007, 08:20:09 AM »
1st  -   advertise for and buy an ejector fitted barrel.

2nd -   sell the extractor barrel to pay for the ejector barrel.

result - problem solved and no arguments over a few thousandths of an inch.
          Get what you want and need, life is to short to be unhappy.
          I prefer the ejector fitted barrels myself, and the solution is easy.

....<><....:)
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Offline rex6666

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2007, 09:15:29 AM »
WELL! i am glad i tuned in.
i am new here, and just purchased my first SB2, have not even shot it yet 280 rem
i was under the impression that they all kick the empty completely out.
it seems i was mistaken in the future how do i know i am getting an ejector barrel.
i want one that throws the empty over my shoulder.
i am looking at a 450 marlin barrel now on-line how will i know if the seller says he doesn't know
Rex
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2007, 10:06:13 AM »
Welcome aboard Rex! H&R doesn't make em with ejectors any more, all current production centefire rifles have extractors that just lift the case out a bit. The only way to get an ejector is buy an older rifle or a used barrel that has an ejector. You can tell an ejector from an extractor two ways, an ejector will click when you open the action all the way as the ejector snaps out. And ejector claw can be pressed in when the action is open, an extractor can't. The underlug also looks different, see the FAQs, lots of answers in there for you, including pics of all 3 types of underlugs.

Tim
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Offline sluggo

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2007, 11:34:12 AM »
...if ya want to shoot fast, buy a lever action. Otherwise, enjoy yer Handis.... ;D
...there are many kinds of wounded, and only one kind of dead. Do it the Handi way, one shot, one kill.

Offline Warthog

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2007, 01:20:12 PM »
You mean maybe like this one, sluggo?
  8)
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2007, 03:02:53 PM »
now that is a beautiful 45-70 lever action!!!....<><....:)
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2007, 08:44:54 AM »
You know when people first started crying and complaining about having to go chase down their empties and that extractors were needed so their brass would not get throwen into the mud and dirt at the range, I was concerned.  Then they started complaining about an occasional stuck case, and saying they only shot at a range therefore ejectors were not needed.  I tryed to get the message across that some of us hunted dangerous game with Handi's.  We hunters  wanted nothing less than ejectors.  That extractors were not good for a hunting gun.  I was chastized by many, and told extractors were more reliable.  Those people made so much noise to NEF that the system was changed to extractors.  Now you folks that don't have older guns are stuck with a strictly range gun, one that is not hunter friendly.  I don't own a single Handi with extractors, In fact I turned down ordering a new barrel last month because they had no more ejectors left in that caliber.  I have never had a stuck case in any of my Handi's, the ejectors never fail to send that cartridge flying just like I like it.  I will not buy a Handi with extractors.  I recommend that people go to pawn shops or estate auctions, or keep checking with gun shops in their areas and look for Handi's with ejectors if they want a hunting gun.  Handi's have been ruined in my openion thanks to the non hunting cry babies, who managed to get a good hunting gun converted to a range gun.

And I'm not sorry for my rant either, I want people to know how I truly feel about the changes that were made.  Glad I got one of those older .35 Whelens, and a good 30-06.  Along with two .223s, a .243, a 45-70, a 22-250, and several shotguns.  All ejectors.

That's also why I leave my TCs at home during the summer when the bears are out.  They don't eject either.  The reason I bought my first Handi was because it had ejectors, not extractors.
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Offline rex6666

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2007, 09:18:48 AM »
i am new here and probably need to keep my mouth shut,BUT
Sourdough i am with you 100%
i bought a sb2 in 280, because i liked the looks of it and thought, or was told that all handi's
ejected the case clear, and the ones i have shot did.
i would not have bought this gun if i had known it did not eject.
what would it cost to make them either way another $20-25, i would pay the dif.
we can get all kinds of stocks, sights or no sights, why not an option on eject or fingers.
now instead of just ordering a barrel, i have to really start hunting.
LOVE THE GUN, LOVE THE IDEA, DO NOT LOVE extractors
guess i could carry a stick to run down the muzzle end of the barrel, so i won't burn my little fingers
tiring to get one out quick
Rex
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Offline hunter63

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2007, 09:52:25 AM »
...if ya want to shoot fast, buy a lever action. Otherwise, enjoy yer Handis.... ;D

I agree, haven't had to deal with this problem yet, all my barrels are ejector, but a single shot is a single shot.
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2007, 11:38:08 AM »
Sourdough I ageee with you, all my Handis also are ejector models. I do not want anything to do with a extractor fitted barrel and do not plan to buy one or spend any money on one. Let those that wanted them buy them....<><....:)
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Offline GregP42

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2007, 11:46:49 AM »
Hey guys,

I am not a fan of the extractor either, but I have two of them. Here is how I did it with the TC and how I am going to do it with my Handi, crack open the action, have the next shell in my hand ready, use the rim on the new round to pull out the old round, flip it over and stick it in. It is easier to do than describe, not as fast as the ejector, but it works.

Greg
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Offline Roudy

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2007, 12:00:11 PM »
Wouldn't it be nice if NEF would design the Handi so that you could simply push a rod, lever, button or something inside that would switch between an extractor or ejector.  If you read the FAQ about extractor/ejector it doesn't seem like it would take a nuclear physicist to make a design change like that.  Then everyone would be happy and you could even switch to ejector when hunting or extractor when on the range.

Maybe some enterprising gunsmith will come up with the change.

Roudy

Offline dw06

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2007, 12:14:25 PM »
I have to agree with Fred & Sourdough,I prefer the ejector over the extractor.All the Handis I've had were ejectors except the last barrel I just bought.Don't care for the extractor on a hunting rifle for big game,so going to see how this one shoots but will more than likly sell because of the extractor.Just my .02
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2007, 01:40:36 PM »
Anyone wanting to sell an extractor barrel for less than an ejector barrel, please let me know, I have 3 frames that need barrels, I don't mind extractors one bit and getting one for a bargain price sounds real enticing!! ;D I don't see them as an issue that can't be dealt with, specially when you consider how many folks hunt with muzzleloading firearms that take considerably longer to reload. ::)

If y'all think extractor centerfire rifles are bad, you're in for a rude awakening if H&R sticks to their plan of extractors for shotguns and rimfires. Whether they still have that plan, I don't know, haven't heard of an extractor shotgun yet, they're next from what we've been told in the past.

With lawyers running H&R/Marlin in our litigious society, I don't see H&R changing their plans, so if you want new barrels, better get used to extractors. ;)

Tim
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2007, 02:01:10 PM »
OR, keep the ejector barrels we have and only buy used ejector fitted barrels, true they will most likely be more expensive than the less desirable extractor barrels but I as others also feel they will be worth the extra money ....<><.... ;)

and thanks for the great tip GregP42, it seems as if would be a great help in shooting these extractor barrels, especially since many have stated and complained the extractors only raise the shell a litte bit and it is difficult to grab, can you imagine an extractor in a rimfire!!! Ludicrous....<><.... ::)
"Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2007, 02:12:38 PM »
Good luck finding a used ejector 45 Colt carbine, 500 S&W, 44Mag that's not overbore, or 444 Marlin 1:20" barrel!!! That's what I meant by "new" barrels. ;) Also be aware that any rifle sent in for repair that needs a new barrel will get an extractor barrel. :-\

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline bluebayou

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2007, 05:40:19 PM »
So are the rimfires ejectors or extractors or both right now?

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2007, 05:41:58 PM »
Ejectors and I hope they stay that way, but their original intent was to do away with them too. Rifles first, then shotguns, rimfires last. :'(

Tim
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2007, 06:05:19 PM »
unless we all keep complaining to them and let them know what a BAD decision the extractors were....<><.... ;)
"Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2007, 06:08:18 PM »
Sounds like a good candidate for the Wish List. I wouldn't hold my breath hoping for that. ::)

Tim
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2007, 07:24:07 PM »


Quote
With lawyers running H&R/Marlin in our litigious society, I don't see H&R changing their plans, so if you want new barrels, better get used to extractors. Wink

Tim

Not to mention the very obvious...extractors are cheaper to produce..and they don't have to do a final polish of the chambers..While it may not make sense from many folks point of views...it does from the accountants...It will save them big time $$$$$$$ in the long run...provided sales continue well...If they don't here...they always have their over seas market...

While it's not such a big deal to me..since I don't hunt dangerous game with a single shot..nor do I live and frequent areas when deer hunting that contains animals that would attack me...if I did...I wouldn't be using a single shot...I would elect to carry a repeater of some kind...this is just my thoughts on that...The whole premise of using a single shot..is to make your only shot count..This is the allure of them...at least to me...They were never designed to offer a fast follow up aimed shot for a center fire rifle...They were designed with the ejectors to give a reasonable (with practice) following pointed shot as a shotgun...

I think if they got a avalanche of actual letters complaining about the change... going to the CEO of Marlin...and being dumped on his desk...might...might...have them put back...It's always worth a shot for you die hard ejector fans...

Mac
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Offline rex6666

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Re: Speed Reloading For Second Shot With Extractor - Any Tricks?
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2007, 10:09:26 AM »
how cheap do we want or need to make this gun, do we want a nice looking gun with superior accuracy, and a gun we enjoy or just a cheap piece.
i still say make it both ways, people WILL pay for what they want.
i bet if they take a pole, people will pay more for a rifle made the way they want it.
look at your cars, trucks, and anything else you buy, you pay more to get the options you want.
i guess if i have to live with extractors, i might learn to live with a T/C
GIVE ME FOR ONE THE OPTION
Rex
GOD GUNS and GUTS MADE AMERICA GREAT

Texas is good for men and dogs, but it is hell on women and horses.