The plane that crashed in Pennsylvania 9 / 11

[Cabin4]

[/quote]

The government couldn't answer all or even close to all the questions unless they simply told the truth.  The fact that they are covering up so much reveals they have something to hide.  If they didn't have anything to hide and if they were a government for the people and by the people, we wouldn't have a problem here.  The problem is that the vast amount of evidence contradicts the government's story.       
[/quote]

What makes you think they have all the answers? I don't think they have all the answers. If I was completely bias, I might think they should have all the answers too and just won't tell us. But because I have an objective and open mind, trust my Gov more then the terrororist, can take into account the historical perspective (prior terrorist activity) and can read books & newspapers on this stuff as well as deduct with reason, the facts and film footage, I think the terroroist did it.

The fact that our Gov can't or won't give you all the answers, does not mean they perpetrated 9-11 via some massive conspiracy. The police in normal homicide cases never release all the facts publicly prior to the conclusion of the criminal trial. Theres good reason for it, its called strategy to protect the evidance.

BTW: Whats all this there covering up? Give us a list:
1.
2.
3.

[Cabin4]

Just three,,,because there is so much information disproving the government's conspiracy theory.
But for starters:
1)  how, why did Bldg #7 collapse in 7seconds in a neat pile while not sustaining an aircraft hit and having only minor fires?
Answer: Educate yourself on 2 points. 1. It was hit by an aircraft!!! and 2. Talk to a structural engineer. The people that designed the Towers have explained this.. oh lets see , there in on the conspiracy...
2) how did flunky arab pilots fly into the pentacon, deliberately barrel rolling 330 degrees to avoid the executive offices,negating ground effect, not mark up the lawn with engines 5 feet below the fuselage, and slide in a neat hole right between the ground floor and 2nd floor where the 2.3 trillion dollar boondoggle study was taking place, when seasoned fighter and airliner pilots claimed they couldn't do the maneuver at all....eg. see topgun link above?
Answer: It well documented, they took flying lessons here in the USA..... Open your eyes and read, watch TV....
3) how and why did the tower hit secondly by a glancing blow,,,we all saw the fire ball out the back of the building,,,,collapse first about 15 minutes before the  first tower struct more directly?
Answer, Becasue that what happens when a plane full of jet fuel hits building...
4) why and who transferred a large some of money to Pakistani ISI on Sept 10
Answer: WHo cares and what doe shtis have to do with the priuce of milk?
5) why were 5 dancing Israelis arrested, than released along with a sweep of 100 other Israeli operative/students right after the event?
Answer: WHo cares, again,, what does thsi have to do with it anyway.....?
6) who benefited from selling short on the stock exchange that day and why haven't they been questioned?
Answer: People buy and sel stock every day. Thats why its called the "Stock Exchange".....
7) How did Chertoff's brother (both Israeli citizens btw) end up being the Popular Mechanics' executive in charge of the response supporting the government's conspiracy arab story?
Answer: Ask Popular Mechanics. Who cares..
8} Why don't demolition companies use jet fuel to rapidly pulverize and collaspe buildings slated for demoilition instead of explosives?  And why are there famous photos of tower victims standing in the gaping holes in the towers if the inferno is so hot it's melting huge steel beams in mere minutes?
Answer: Demo companies use controlled explosives. It much more safe and reliable method of taking down old building then flying an aircraft full of jet fuel into it....
9} And why won't NIST answer questions and continue to refine their report accordingly?
Answer: As one learns more, you refine your process. Its called "Continuous Improvement"

There's just a very few things that should be uncovered for starters.

...TM7

It appears to me the only likely conspirisy there is, is the conspirisy to create a conspiricy..... thats it.

You conspirisy theorist crack me up. The thoughts that go thru your minds on this one are almost insane and the logic behind it defies common sense. I can only laugh.     

[Cabin4]

I think I got it now, all terrorist activities around the world are really acts being set forth by the US Gov. Including those in the UK, Spain, Italy, Indonesia, Pan Am Flt 103 over Scotland......

Because if this is what you use to cast doubt and then quilt on the US Gov for 9-11, then the same can apply to all acts. In fact, lets set the record straight on this, its the US Gov in conspiracy with all Gov around the world including Iran, Syria and the rest of the Arab nut case countries. This is really a conspirtisy of a magnitude far beyound anything we imagined. In fact, about half the world is on it and everyones keeping theri lips sealed...

Like I said the only conspirisy there is here, is the conspirtisy to create a conspirisy. All you have is "doubt" and "questions" in yiur mind. That sipply does not add-up to guilt or even doubt based on any connectable facts. Your trying to make massive connections that can't be connected with any facts and then you leap to conclusions.

I could not imagine going through like like with these thoughts in your mind.It must be horrible.
 

[SHOOTALL]

I find it hard to believe that many people could be involved and not talk about it ! Then again the terrorist do it now don't they ! I still hope we are better ! that is a better people , not better at it !

[Cabin4]

I find it hard to believe that many people could be involved and not talk about it ! Then again the terrorist do it now don't they ! I still hope we are better ! that is a better people , not better at it !

That should always be one of the measure one uses to determine the plausibility of a conspiracy. How many people must be involved and whats the likelihood? For 9-11 to have been conspired by the US Gov, it would take thousands of people involved. In fact, it would also take thousands more that volutarily went into permanent hiding. To suggest this as plausible, is so rediculous that only an a mentally challenged person could believe it true.

That's why this whole conspiracy theory is so utterly ridicules on it's face and no credible people have signed up to it. Just people with nothing else better to do are pushing this one.

[Cabin4]

I find it hard to believe that many people could be involved and not talk about it ! Then again the terrorist do it now don't they ! I still hope we are better ! that is a better people , not better at it !

That should always be one of the measure one uses to determine the plausibility of a conspiracy. How many people must be involved and whats the likelihood? For 9-11 to have been conspired by the US Gov, it would take thousands of people involved. In fact, it would also take thousands more that volutarily went into permanent hiding. To suggest this as plausible, is so rediculous that only an a mentally challenged person could believe it true.

That's why this whole conspiracy theory is so utterly ridicules on it's face and no credible people have signed up to it. Just people with nothing else better to do are pushing this one.

.
Not very well thought out Cabin...it's called compartmentalism...keeps people from knowing the whole story.  Wouldn't be anybody on planes to cover up anything if there weren't any passengers on any planes.  Of course, this might be hard to figure because you still believe a plane hit wtc # 7. The key to a grand plot is to make it so grand that 'disbelief is the norm", as masses want to be lead. I think it was Hilter that said that.

None are more enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free...... Goethe

..TM7

TM7,
You are so dead -A wrong on your fatcs its becoming disgusting. One plane hit each of the the 2 towers. I watched the film footage again last night to verify this. Open your eyes.

If compartmentalization is the best answer you have for thousands of people in on this conspirusy, then you do need some seroius help or your just so lacking fatcs its hard to imagine. But given your absolute believe, that a plane did not hit one of the towers, its easy to understand just how messed up your facts are.

The fact is, there were people on those planes. Only someone who refuses to accept this absolute fact, can make the assertions you have made. Becasue if you admit there were people on those planes, then your whole conspiristy theory goes right down the toilet.

[Matt]

“TM7,
You are so dead -A wrong on your fatcs its becoming disgusting. One plane hit each of the the 2 towers. I watched the film footage again last night to verify this. Open your eyes.

If compartmentalization is the best answer you have for thousands of people in on this conspirusy, then you do need some seroius help or your just so lacking fatcs its hard to imagine. But given your absolute believe, that a plane did not hit one of the towers, its easy to understand just how messed up your facts are.

The fact is, there were people on those planes. Only someone who refuses to accept this absolute fact, can make the assertions you have made. Becasue if you admit there were people on those planes, then your whole conspiristy theory goes right down the toilet”

Cabin4 first your ignorance on this subject is overwhelmingly obvious and I would recommend you do a little reading and educate yourself before running your mouth and pretending to have “The Facts”.

Next let me explain a few things to you seeing as you are clueless. TM7 is not saying that a plane did not hit the towers as you assume but rather building 7. Now if you had a clue or had done even a little research into this subject before running your mouth you might know what building 7 is and why the collapse of it is so important. But alas you haven’t and don’t so why don’t you go back and read my post on the official conspiracy of 911 watch a few of the videos follow the links and read the FULL 911 commission report, the FULL FEMA report and the NIST as well then after doing so come back and lets talk a little more on the subject until then please stop making a fool of yourself.

Also you might want to look up compartmentalization and find out what it is and how it really works before you laugh at it.

Look the information is out there all you have to do is use a little due diligence and sort through the good and bad and link together the pieces of the puzzle, you may not solve it but you will get the general idea of what it looks like.

Matt

[Cabin4]

“TM7,
You are so dead -A wrong on your fatcs its becoming disgusting. One plane hit each of the the 2 towers. I watched the film footage again last night to verify this. Open your eyes.

If compartmentalization is the best answer you have for thousands of people in on this conspirusy, then you do need some seroius help or your just so lacking fatcs its hard to imagine. But given your absolute believe, that a plane did not hit one of the towers, its easy to understand just how messed up your facts are.

The fact is, there were people on those planes. Only someone who refuses to accept this absolute fact, can make the assertions you have made. Becasue if you admit there were people on those planes, then your whole conspiristy theory goes right down the toilet”

Cabin4 first your ignorance on this subject is overwhelmingly obvious and I would recommend you do a little reading and educate yourself before running your mouth and pretending to have “The Facts”.

Next let me explain a few things to you seeing as you are clueless. TM7 is not saying that a plane did not hit the towers as you assume but rather building 7. Now if you had a clue or had done even a little research into this subject before running your mouth you might know what building 7 is and why the collapse of it is so important. But alas you haven’t and don’t so why don’t you go back and read my post on the official conspiracy of 911 watch a few of the videos follow the links and read the FULL 911 commission report, the FULL FEMA report and the NIST as well then after doing so come back and lets talk a little more on the subject until then please stop making a fool of yourself.

Also you might want to look up compartmentalization and find out what it is and how it really works before you laugh at it.

Look the information is out there all you have to do is use a little due diligence and sort through the good and bad and link together the pieces of the puzzle, you may not solve it but you will get the general idea of what it looks like.

Matt

Matt,

Apparently you can't read eiether.
In earlier posts TM7 says " how and why did the tower hit secondly by a glancing blow,,,we all saw the fire ball out the back of the building,,,,collapse first about 15 minutes before the  first tower struct more directly?". As far as #7, I know what it is, big deal. Thats what happens when airliners full of jet fuel slam into buildings, fires spread from debrie.

So what happened to the people that were suppose to be on those planes? According to you guys those planes were empty.Thousands of family members all over the country in your little conspisy.... Hundreds of people who were not really on those planes now in hiding some place. How laugable is this trash..

You guys have no facts, just simple casts of doubt only because you refuse to accept facts. Thats it, nothing else. Go talk to some family members of people on those planes and I dare you to tell then this trash about their loved ones. You don't have the gonads....admit it...

As far as reading and reseach, try reading and researching facts from experts who have investigated this instead of blog site communist morons with nothing better to do then spu anti-American rubbish. You swollow that garbage up and spread thier lies like facts. What next, Micheal Moore for President. Your falling right into Osama Bin Ladens trap.... Osama caught you and the rest on this. Your on his side, with the terrorists. Asama has admitted to this and you still blame the US Gov in the face of over wehlming facts.... unreal.. very sad that you have joined the terrorist network propaganda machine and they have not even asked for you to particiapte...

[SHOOTALL]

This is getting funny ( no disrespect to those involved on 9/11 ) What some wish us to believe is that all the departments got together and planned and executed 9/11 ! yet no one department knew what the other did or was doing ! And many more not involved with our govt. fell in line like sheep ( some no doubt either dieing for the cause or changing their life for ever  ! Now executed the punch line all this happened in a town where the sex life of all involved is under a microscope not to mention the rest of their lives ! And the same people in some cases the same folks that can't get New Orleans straight ! YEAH RIGHT !
Now I'm not Jewish nor hold any ties to them , but the USA should look at how they ( ISRAEL ) handle the terrorist threat IE. many private citizens carry weapons and are trained to identify and take action in time of need ! We Americans need to demand we have the same opportunity ! Then we would know what was going on !

[Cabin4]

Conspiracy mongers love huge tragedies. All they see is an opportunity to try and propagate lies and deceit to satisfy their own selfish needs. And in the process, they side with the terrorists, knowingly or not.

Very sad.

[Cabin4]

Was D-day a secret covert operation?  It is you and Cabin4 that have the problem understanding just how tight an operation this could have been.  I said 100 or less including foreign help from a country expert in false flag operations.  You guys seem to think people were actually on airplanes, and that an airliner could have been navigated into a ground floor hit of pentacon in spite of what expert pilots and topguns say.  That's alright...we're making progress.
  All you got to do is take the time and effort to study the facts, what experts are saying, and to understand the true nature of government(s) in this time we are living in.  You see you are attached to facts that you believe are true because media and the government told you. It is funny that OBL's wanted poster does not want him for the 911 attacks, because in the FBI's own words there is no connecting him with the attack and the video(s) of him cannot be authenticated.

...TM7

Yes D-Day was, but no one still keeps it a secret. They were all military anyway. Your comparing military strategy & ops with thousands of common everyday people supposidly involved in 9-11. Your further trying to tell us that thousands more, of these people have vanished into some "witness type protection" program..... What a bunch of BS.

Your trying to attach credibility to thousands of nut-case, crack pot, no name web blog morons.

Your trying to tell us those planes were empty, no passesngers on board. Tell that to the families who's loved ones never came home.....

Your trying to tell us Bush is behind all this.... what about Clinton, Bush 1, Regan & Carter.. are they all in on this and prior attacks to???

The assertions you make are so far outside any normal line of thinking its makes me sick. For anyone to beleive this garabage shows a severe a lack of intelligence.

If someone has "questions" about 9-11... okay. But to say that because there are questions, there is this rediculous leap to it being perpitrated by the US Gov, is just baseless BS. I have questions about 9-11 as well. But I don't hold the US Gov accountable for flying planes into buildings becasue of it. Thats rubbish and you know it. Your just here throwing this BS because you hate the USA.

Anyone who beleives this trash, requires a leap in faith to conspiracy like the leap of faith in God !! .... Becasue thats what it would take to pull this conspiracy off,  devine intervention..

[Matt]

cabin4 please enlighten me on the amount of time and effort you have put forth into researching this issue.

Matt

[Cabin4]

cabin4 please enlighten me on the amount of time and effort you have put forth into researching this issue.

Matt

What, are you looking for my "9-11 Investigation" time card report or something. Why don't you just get to your point instead of beating around the bush.

I can tell you this, we just past the 6 year anniversary. I have read enough, seen enough, been to enough and know enough to know that there really were passengers on those planes. If you accept the premese that there were the people on those planes as reported by the Gov, airlines and the surviving family members, then the conspirisy theory as put forth by the conspirisy theory mongers here goes right out the window. You can only believe their thoery if you accept no-passengers on all the planes as a fact. And that premise is 100% pure unadulterated rubbish. Not to mention the many other numerous poorly based, factless and rediculos points they present.

How about the comparing the planning of the D- Day invasion that TM7 makes as akin to 9-11. Now that a real convising comparison!!!! The D Day invasion planning is well documented by al the countries involved. To suggest this as a parrallel to 9-11 is just pure tash. As if to say, see D Day planned by the US and its allies, they did 9-11 the same way. Theres jsut one huge gapping hole in that theory. No one has come forward to explain this plan that was orcesrated by thousands of people. Not one shred of fact or evidance to support the comparision. No, all we get is "see". WOW I really find that compelling.... RIGHT.

So why don't you tell us you also beleive there were no people on those planes>.....

[Matt]

What, are you looking for my "9-11 Investigation" time card report or something. Why don't you just get to your point instead of beating around the bush.

Ok no problem I will get to the point, my point is that you come in here claiming to know what happen because the media told you. But you admit that you have not read any of the official reports or done any investigation into the matter for your self. That is what I would call a mindless moron if ever there was one.

Let me ask you this, if I stole thousands of dollars each year from you and told you it was legal for me to do so would you trust me?

If I catered to the rich and took more and more from the poor would you trust me?

If I covered up countless mistakes and lied about them to your face would you trust me?

The answer should be no to all of the above but yet for you the fact that it is the government and media doing these things seems to be ok by you.

You claim to know the facts but yet you have not even so much as researched the topic…hmmm… ok you claim that the people who are questioning 911 and those of us who would like to see a thorough investigation “conspiracy theory mongers” which by the way only proves that you are an idiot or mindless moron one seeing as the “Official Version” is based on and referred to as a conspiracy… So again I say to you research the topic and show your facts and the evidence that back them (the media saying it happen like yada yada don’t count).

Oh and to the plane victims you talk so much about… how about pointing me in the direction of  all those “family members” you cant because only 1 or 2 have come forward of the hundreds that there would have to be…

Also why is it that there are so many people from ground zero asking questions and demanding answers… oh by the way did you know that the government lied on 911 when they said the air was safe… also did you know that FEMA was already in place the night before it happen (be prepared must be the FEMA Motto) hmm not to mention the fact that we knew the first plane was high jacked for over 2 hours before anything was done by the air force. So how is it we have a multi-trillion dollar radar and early warning system and we cant even find an airliner in our own skies for 2 hours… yeah right see if you believe that crap then you are the mindless moron you was talking about…

”I can tell you this, we just past the 6 year anniversary. I have read enough, seen enough, been to enough and know enough to know that there really were passengers on those planes.”

You seem to have a hang up with the passengers on the plane for what ever reason so ok let’s say there was people on the plane it doesn’t change anything as you purport.  I do not pretend to know everything or everyone who is involved but it is very clear that there are conflicting theories on the matter and it being of a scale that it is there would be more than a few people spending a few months and then calling done. 

If you would take the time to read the official FEMA and 911 reports you will find they even those creating the report admit that the official version is “not probable but the best hypothesis we have” well hello there you go in the official reports they even say it is not probable but yet you being the genius you are you know what happen without ever even so much as having to investigate it… WOW you are the man…

If you accept the premese that there were the people on those planes as reported by the Gov, airlines and the surviving family members, then the conspirisy theory as put forth by the conspirisy theory mongers here goes right out the window. You can only believe their thoery if you accept no-passengers on all the planes as a fact. And that premise is 100% pure unadulterated rubbish. Not to mention the many other numerous poorly based, factless and rediculos points they present.

Again how do you arrive at this? Lets look at the actual facts for a second.

Ok we have video of 1 plane hitting the north tower.
We have video of 1 plane hitting the south tower.

So that is 2 planes that the world watched hit 2 different buildings, ok well we have no video of a plane hitting the pentagon or the field in PA so we do not know for fact they existed to begin with. So if there was people on the plane and the people behind 911 really found someone willing and able to fly a plane into the towers then the people on the planes well their dead if the existed at all.

But you can not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a plane hit the pentagon or the field in PA. So until such time as you can prove a plane hit the pentagon and the field in PA I see no reason to address the people that may or may not have been on 2 planes that may or may not have even existed.

“How about the comparing the planning of the D- Day invasion that TM7 makes as akin to 9-11. Now that a real convising comparison!!!! The D Day invasion planning is well documented by al the countries involved. To suggest this as a parrallel to 9-11 is just pure tash. As if to say, see D Day planned by the US and its allies, they did 9-11 the same way. Theres jsut one huge gapping hole in that theory. No one has come forward to explain this plan that was orcesrated by thousands of people. Not one shred of fact or evidance to support the comparision. No, all we get is "see". WOW I really find that compelling.... RIGHT.”

Hmm I think you should talk the TM7 about what TM7 posts not me… But I am sure he has a logical reason for the comparison.

“So why don't you tell us you also beleive there were no people on those planes>.....”

Hmm I think the better question would be do I think our political and financial arena leaders are capable of killing hundreds of people and the answer is YES I do. It matters not if there was people on the planes or not if it was under remote control or if some Saudi was really flying the damn things… it don’t matter there are still way more unanswered than answered questions and therefore I feel that the American citizens are due an independent thorough investigation if not those who lost their lives… the families… you know the ones you bring up just like a good little brainwashed peon… yeah they deserve it at least don’t you agree… But now I ask you why you are so against the investigation of the happenings of 911? I mean after all none of the reports claim to know what really happen and put it forward as a hypothesis but yet you turn their words around and claim them as fact… hmmm yep…a bright one you really are….


Matt

[Cabin4]

Matt,

Well Matt, the truth about you finally comes out. You hate our country and our form of government. Thats fine. But all the rubbish about 9-11, rubbish.

Here's the bottom line: The burden of proof is on you, not me. You and the rest of your conspiracy buddies are the ones saying there were no people on the planes and the US Gov conspired with thousands of people to perpitrate 9-11.

I don't have to proof their innicence, you have to proof their quilt. And the bottom line on that is, you guys are so far from being able to proof anything. You point to the 9-11 commision report like a bible but then critizize the very Gov that published it. Show us were in the 9-11 Commison Report it says there were no people on those planes!! Show us were in the report it says Bush is responsable for 9-11!!

Show us, show us, show us please something of proof to back up your claims.

Just keep wishing and throwing all the poop around that you can, hoping to get dumb people or people who hate the US to come along with you. Thats yours and the rest of the 9-11 conspirisy growds SOP. Say hellp to Bin Laden for us, he will kiss you on both cheeks. Your his best buddy too....

[SHOOTALL]

D-day , was a secret right up till the order was given to go , KINDA ! most knew it was coming just not when or where !
9/11 on the other hand was a true surprise to most anyway ! experts exist on both sides now one must choose to believe one side or the other or maybe some of both sides !
I have not spent most of the last 6 years trying to figure it out as some have , so don't consider me an expert ! But one must apply some degree of common sense to the issue ! If you feel that you have the answer and can support it with facts by all means step up but to keep saying this expert or that expert say this or that is getting old ! is well getting old ! No i don't feel the issue is settled 100% most likely never will be ! One aspect i feel needs explaining is where did the money come from ? why did most of the terrorist come from Saudi Arabia and we attack two other countries ? who had the most to gain ? not us ! but if Saddam H. was the problem for his neighbors and Bin L. was for his were we duped into this thing ? in some way ?
far fetched you say , most likely but that's how this stuff gets started !
the plane and pentagon , not a pilot , but i will say this i have seen enough impossible things in life come to pass to realize most anything can happen ! the boys who say ya can't fly a jet that low , well i got to ask what would happen if you tried ? may i suggest it might crash and that is why it can't be done which may be what happened ! just an idea , seem like everyone has one !

[Cabin4]

Well Matt, the truth about you finally comes out. You hate our country and our form of government.

Cabin,,,on a few occasions you have accused me and Matt of being USA haters, terrorists, and other ridiculous canards.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  In fact, it is blind followers like yourself swilling kool-aide, that are the real enemies of freedom. By your cyber tone, turning nasty, you openly display that some of your facts and ideas have been more than adequately challenged and so must resort to name calling and deliberate misunderstanding in an attempt to confuse.  That's all OKay,,,nobody said this would be easy or pleasant.
Please link us to families of airplane passenger victims.

Shootall,,,,D-day is simply an example of a large covert operation, probably involving intelligence, undergrd, military, and government personnel that came off pretty well thankfully.

The government had more than adequate forewarning that something like 911 might happen.  There were 2 previous attacks on the WTC. Security chief Richard Clark warned of it, many FBI warned of it, foreign intell warned of it, AG Ashcroft stopped flying commercially, many profited on short sales on the stock market. Often when some patriot spills the beans on a operation the whole affair gets called off, at least for a while. Then when the whole event went down it was solved in 14 minutes. "It was OBL and 19 arabs".  Simply remarkable.  BTW, several of the accused hyjackers are said to still be alive and well in the Mid East....that should be relatively easy to check out.

....TM7

Typical method of operation. Try and diverge from the real topic. TM7, I have never confused you with Matt. If you would read the posts you would see he respinded on your behlaf. So, I responded back to him & you.. Just more about your poor reading habits...

As I have said, you burden of proof is on you, to proove 9-11 was perpetrated by the US Gov. I don't have to prrove their inncence but can point out the rediculous assertions you guys are making.

I don't drink any kool aid. Your the one drinking the kool aid. Its not mee coming up with rediculous assertions like "there really were no people on those planes".  I know there were people on those planes and ALL the evidance prves me correct and you wrong. So who's drinking kool aid?

Yes, I believe that you & Matt hate the US and our form of Gov. This assertions is far inside the relm of reality given the FACT that you & Matt beleive the US Gov perpitrated 9-11. Anyone looking at these 2 measures could reasonablly conclude you hate the US if your willing to leap to this rediculous conclusion without any facts or witnesses. All you have are web blog morons posting BS and you come here and repeat it...

As far as prooving my fatcs wrong: Tell us what fatcs I have stated are wrong? Give us a list and then you give the real, proven documented facts to back up your rubbish. The fact is you can't. Your idea of fatcs is to simply say I'm wrong. Again, I'm not the one who has to proove your conspirsy is wrong, YOU have to proove your conspirisy RIGHT.

If Geopge Bush did 9-11, show us the proof?
If there were NO people on those planes, show us the proof?
If a missle hit the pentagon, prove it?
If is was not Bin Laden that master minded 9-11, prove Bid Laden wrong per his own video tape?
If whatever hit the ground in PA was not a plane, prove it?
If there were explosions in the twin towers and WTC 7 that could have only been done by something other than the aircraft , prove it?
If there was a vast and wide spread conspirisy using comparmentalization and thousands of people as you describe it, prove it?
If those people were really not on those planes, tell us where they are and prove it?

Just prove something, Matt & TM7 ? But here's the problem you will have. You can't prove anything!! Thats why its called a "Conspirisy Theory". This is a term that by its own definition means you don't have poop to back up your claims. Just the silly little thoughts that run thru your anti-American mind. This FACT, makes me CORRECT and you WRONG and the burden of proof is on you not me. Because theories are used to describe pure conjecture and that, which cannot be proven. In other words your all BS, all show and no go...

So this is not about my believes, me drinkinbg kool aid, me swollowing every thing as you guys want to put it. Its about YOU.

[Graybeard]

Cabin I'm gonna tell ya what and it likely will piss you off but just the same you really DON'T wanna piss me off in return not if you like staying around here at least. So be fore warned.


I must admit that Matt was right when he said you're talking out of your ass or maybe your real problem is you have your head up your ass. Your ignorance of the real world is amazing truly it is.

YOU not they are the ones who seem to hate our FORM OF GOVERNMENT. What they and I hate are the folks running it. We LOVE the FORM of GOVERNMENT but not what it has deteriorated to these days. Get your blinders off. It's NOT up to them or me or anyone else to prove a damn thing to you. It's the government's job to PROVE to ALL CITIZENS they are working in our best interest. In case you have forgotten this country was founded on the principle of a government OF the people FOR the people BY the people. What it has become is a government against the people by the rich for their own selfish financial interest. If you can't see that you are blind as a man with no eyes.

It's YOUR job to wake up open your eyes and see what's happening around you. That you and the other sheeple of the country will not do so is why this country is in the mess it is today and you'll not take your blinders off until it's too late and in my opinion it ALREADY IS TOO LATE.

Hundreds quite litterally of things the government has done and been caught at and proven they did are on record. By government I mean not our FORM of government but the PEOPLE running it. The founding fathers set up the best form of government ever devised by mankind but they warned us that exactly what is happening would happen if we were not careful and as a nation we've NOT been been careful or mindful of the warnings the founding fathers gave us or all the signs of what are happening around us.

If you are too stupid and ignorant to understand this then get the hell off this forum NOW. Go play somewhere with the other sheeple and leave the discussion here to folks with open eyes and minds who are not puppets of the government blinding parroting the official party line.

DO NOT assume you can come back at me in attack mode if you do you are finished at this site for LIFE. Just quietly fade back into the wood work until you educate yourself and engage your brain.

[Ponydog]

I have read so many of these back and forths, I don't know what to make of it.....I just have one question......we've spent billions and billions of dollars in this war, initiated after 9-11......our fuel is at 78 dollars a barrel....the housing industry is in the tank, we have worthless candidates for President, we have political gridlock.....consumer costs have gone through the roof at record levels, mostly due to corn prices ( high fructose corn syrup is an ingredient in almost everything we eat)...this too in the name of an ALTERNATIVE fuel , so if this conspiracy does indeed exist....who gained from it.....I mean , is it just a few people?   I am asking because , if it was indeed this well planned by people in our own government, to the extent that Big Oil, Commodities markets, Wall Street , and other financial outlets, were all "In " on it....just seems hard to keep that a secret?     And I am not coming back at anyone.......I don't have a dog in this fight, I am just asking questions....something this huge, has to have exposed coat-tails......I guess if that much money is at stake, peoples conscious, can be , well, lost.......I would just think someone , somewhere, would feel a huge sense of guilt, and come forward, we have whistle blowers in So many things so much less paramount than this....don't you think...

[Cabin4]

Ponydog,

The only question you need to answer for your self on this thread is: Do you believe there were or were not people on those planes. If you believe there were people on those planes, then you can't believe the conspirisy theory being put forth here by TM7 & Matt.

And this is my point and rest is just peripheral stuff...

[SHOOTALL]

TM7 ,I can't see what any thing that happened on D-Day can have as a help to understanding 9/11 ! if for no other reason communication is different today !
Now , as far as picking sides I can't ! One side won't explain what happened and the other only sheds doubt ! I have to agree with GB about the govt. being against us and most Americans won't do anything for fear of maybe losing a perk or two !
you stated that some who were supposed to have been on the planes were alive and well in the middle east , all i ask is show us where , something concrete if not it is nothing more than an ELVIS sighting !
The plane flying low , we see films from time to time where planes land on their belly in emergencies , could the same approach not have been used at the pentagon ?
As far as brain washing us into being subjects ( sheeple ) not citizens, a look at the education system will high light that ! why else would the fed. govt. get involved ?
every federal program comes with expensive ties , states jumped at the interstate system now the feds tell us how fast we can drive ! just one example !
I believe less and less know what type of government we are suppose to have so they don't realize when it gets corrupted or abused ! most say democratic , but didn't we learn in govt. class it was a federalist form of govt. ?
any way passing rumor only helps cover the tracks of those who abuse our govt. and in reality us !
The only way to over come these injustices is with facts not BS !

[Matt]

here is a link for who ever wanted one on the 4 high jackers being found to still be alive and well.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1558669.stm


Matt

[Matt]

and for those who have not done any research on thier own or dont care to you can give this site a look see. They have done a fair job at staying objective and disagree with many theories to include some of mine but the information available here is worth the look all the same.

http://911research.wtc7.net/index.html

Matt

[SHOOTALL]

matt , checked it out , all i get is a case of mis ID
sorry but we see it all the time , look at the case of the DC sniper , they were looking for white guys in a White van and let the two African American guys in the blue car pass at least 2 times they know of !
with all the cameras around today it should be easy to see who bordered the plane , who had a ticket who collected insurance etc. etc. but until some one steps forward with the funds to take on such a study all we will have is rumor and speculation !

[SHOOTALL]

TM-7 , interesting ! and disturbing !
watched a program on how they take old fighter planes and fly them remote to use as targets !

[rex6666]

I have tried to read all this B.S. did read most. Does anyone suppose that the concrete at the floor of the pentagon
might not be lite weight concrete like would be used on the 90th floor of a biulding also weakened with windows. I would think maybe the floor of the Pentagon might be 3-4 foot thick and the walls
probably 18-20 inches, lots of difference in structure. These pilots that say this could not happen,
have they tried it, or does the book say it can't be done? One EXPERT said that no one coulld have hit one of the towers with a plane, better go back and tell the comocosie pilots that they can not hit a MOVING SHIP.
 I have ask this question many times with no solid answer WHO DID IT AND WHY?
If you are going to tell me BUSH so he could start a war, give me some proof, and how many people helped him. I believe with time he could have started it easier. Seems to me lots of people could find better ways to spend their time like cancer research. MYHO certainly don't want to offend any one.

[SHOOTALL]

I think we know who did it !
Lets find out who let it happen and fix the problem !

[Cabin4]

One EXPERT said that no one coulld have hit one of the towers with a plane, better go back and tell the comocosie pilots that they can not hit a MOVING SHIP.

Thousands of pilots fly commercial aircraft daily, and land it on a runway which is about the same profile as one of the Twin Towers. So any pilot that would say you can't maneuver a commercial aircraft into the towers is an idiot. The other point is we have it on video anyway so the whole argument that these were not really commercial aircraft is rediculous.

[leesecw]

Anybody here checked out the popular mechanics 9-11 link?

[Cabin4]

I think what pilots for truth . com is saying that when landing a plane you are slowed down, guided by air traffic controllers to stay on a course, radio direction devices, and programmed auto course electronics, etc..  Also, most commercial pilots fly a 'route'....NYC-Kenndy to Los Angeles-LAX and back,,,so they know the way.
Somewhere in this forum is an interview of Bill Lear, over 25,000 flight hours, multi-certified, son of Bill Lear Sr. where he said could not find or fly into any of the buildings, perform the famous pentagon barrel roll maneurver, etc. Experienced pilots on flight sims have not been able to either.  So go figure.............
..TM7

I just don't understand that. We have live video of the plan crashing into the tower, thousands of first account eye witnesses. Any pilot that says he can't fly a plane with his own skill set is not a pilot. During war time, pilots need to take manual control of both small and large aircraft and they make these type of adjustments ALL THE TIME. Why a commercial pilot says he can't, is a scary thing.

I have a friend who was a Air Traffic Controller for the Air Force during the Vietnam war in Vietnam. After the war he joined what was then the PATCO Air Traffic Controller union and worked at O'Hara Airport for 15 years. While this guy is not a pilot, he will tell you anyone licenced pilot MUST be capable of flying the plane without all the technology. He tells me, that with a some serious flight training, anyone can direct a large aircraft. So he does not see this as unusual at all.