Author Topic: Virginia Tech Shooting (Read 1084 times)

DalesCarpentry · « **on:** April 16, 2007, 06:59:51 PM »

Today at Virgina Tech a man killed 31 people and him self. What kind of rage could spark this type of action. The feds will come down hard on ( OR WILL TRY TO ) law abiding citizens. I my self do really believe to my core that if you make laws that are hard for normal people to buy guns then the only people that will have them are the ones that should not. Criminals do not go through the legal channels to buy their guns. I do feel greif for the family's that lost a child that was there just to get schooling to further better them selves. This person must have a dark past or mental. Let our prayers be with their family's.

magooch · « **Reply #1 on:** April 17, 2007, 03:33:28 AM »

The gun-grabbers have just shifted into high gear. The NRA and other pro-Second Amendment groups should do the same. Some of the horrible success (for lack of a better term) of these mass murderers should be placed right on the shoulders of those who are unwitting accomplices and that would be law and policy makers who ban guns.

deltecs · « **Reply #2 on:** April 17, 2007, 11:56:29 AM »

Quote from: DALESCARPENTRY on April 16, 2007, 06:59:51 PM

Today at Virgina Tech a man killed 31 people and him self. What kind of rage could spark this type of action. The feds will come down hard on ( OR WILL TRY TO ) law abiding citizens. I my self do really believe to my core that if you make laws that are hard for normal people to buy guns then the only people that will have them are the ones that should not. Criminals do not go through the legal channels to buy their guns. I do feel greif for the family's that lost a child that was there just to get schooling to further better them selves. This person must have a dark past or mental. Let our prayers be with their family's.

Your statement above proves the point well. Criminals do not abide by firearms laws as they exist. This is just such a case. The shooter had receipts that indicated he bought the weapons on campus. It is my understanding that this is unlawful, and not just a school policy. It is clear then that his deed was premeditated and deliberate. This is without a doubt criminal and didn't care less about the innocent UNARMED victims

Ned · « **Reply #3 on:** April 17, 2007, 12:34:38 PM »

When I signed on a few minutes ago I saw the story on the AOL "Welcome" page that the mayor of Nagasaki was shot an killed - apparently by a known criminal.

In the story is this quote:

"Japan has very strict gun control laws and firearms are mostly IN THE HANDS OF "YAKUZA" GANGSTERS (emphasis mine) and hunters."

What a shock.

Ned

deltecs · « **Reply #4 on:** April 17, 2007, 03:19:43 PM »

Quote from: Ned on April 17, 2007, 12:34:38 PM

When I signed on a few minutes ago I saw the story on the AOL "Welcome" page that the mayor of Nagasaki was shot an killed - apparently by a known criminal.

In the story is this quote:

"Japan has very strict gun control laws and firearms are mostly IN THE HANDS OF "YAKUZA" GANGSTERS (emphasis mine) and hunters."

What a shock.

Ned

I read a similar article of Yahoo and the same quote was there too. It also caught my attention.

506th · « **Reply #5 on:** April 17, 2007, 05:53:33 PM »

Happens even in countries with gun laws more strict than the US.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110AP_Virginia_Tech_Global_Shootings.html
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
School shootings from around the world since 1996:
- Nov. 21, 2006: Sebastian Bosse, 18, opens fire at his former school in Emsdetten, Germany, before killing himself. Five people are wounded and scores hospitalized for smoke inhalation after he sets off smoke bombs.
- Sept. 13, 2006: Kimveer Gill, 25, opens fire in a cafeteria at a Montreal college, killing one student and wounding 19 before shooting himself.
- Sept. 28, 2004: Three teenagers are shot and killed by their 15-year-old classmate at a high school in Carmen de Patagones, Argentina. The suspect is detained.
- Sept. 3, 2004: Chechen rebels take hundreds of students and teachers hostage in a school in Beslan, Russia, for two days. The siege ends when explosions tear through the school and security forces storm the building, leaving 334 dead - more than half of them children - as well as 31 suspected militants and 11 special forces soldiers.
- April 29, 2002: Dragoslav Petkovic, 17, shoots his teacher, then himself at a school in Vlansenica, Bosnia-Herzegovina.
- April 26, 2002: Robert Steinhaeuser, 19, who had been expelled from a school in Erfurt, Germany, kills 13 teachers, two former classmates and a policeman, before shooting himself.
- Feb. 19, 2002: A man in his 20s fatally shoots the principal of his former high school in Freising, Germany, after killing two people at a company where he was fired. The man then kills himself.
- Jan. 18, 2001: Two teenagers fatally shoot a 16-year-old student in a bathroom at a school in a suburb of Stockholm, Sweden.
- March 30, 1997: A father in Sana'a, Yemen, kills four students and two adults, including the headmistress, at the school his daughters attend. He then walks to another school and kills a teacher there.
- March 13, 1996: Thomas Hamilton, 43, kills 16 kindergarten children and their teacher in Dunblane, Scotland, before turning the gun on himself.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #6 on:** April 18, 2007, 03:25:03 PM »

All of these shootings are terrible. The one that gets me the most is 16 kindergarten children. These were sweet wonderful children. This just goes to show there are very sick people all around the world.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 18, 2007, 03:43:58 PM »

Its sad to see. A school is supposed to be a gun free zone.

deltecs · « **Reply #8 on:** April 18, 2007, 06:59:47 PM »

When are we going to realize that gun free zones don't work. The problem is the person who wields the firearms, wherever and whenever crimes with guns are committed anywhere. The laws prohibit shooting people indiscriminately or discriminately in the street. Had some of the victims in the gun free zone had a weapon, the outcome may have been different. The police had firearms, the killer had firearms, the police did not and could not protect the victims. The victims should have had the legal right to protect themselves from anyone who actively threatens them violently with bodily harm. I have an inalienable and fundamental right to use force for my own self defense, anywhere and anyway that prevents my bodily harm. The idea of gun free zones is the politically correct term that has been perpetrated on us by the media for so long that we are beginning to use term as fact. Gun free zones, as if that will prevent or stop the problem is the excuse to limit our firearms possession. The truth is that although government can outlaw firearms on campus's, a person has the right to use a gun for his defense of life. This is natural law and not subject to man made law. However, be prepared to spend a lot of time in a court room.

muzzleblast525 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 18, 2007, 07:14:47 PM »

I will say that, at least at the police department that I work for, that our chief has made it a priority that ALL officers attend a 3-day MANDATORY training class on an emergency response to shootings in progress. I just attended it last month. It was as life like as you can make it without actually killing the bad guy, we used Seminutions. The guns we used were modified Glock 22's and it fires a round sorta of like a paintball. We would have to hard charge into the building and go to where the "bad guy" was doing he shooting and take care of him.

But, I just read where this guy at VT had sent a video, letters and pictures to NBC and there was a story on the waves. Seems like he was detained a couple of months ago on a Mental Warrant, but the judge released him later, saying that he was only a threat to himself and not to others. Interesting how that Judge can make the decision, and would be more interesting to see what he based his facts on.

And reading all this garbage about gun control and such, wanting to make new laws. Heck, why doesn't the judge and jury enforce whats already on the books and lets take care of business. Here in Texas its a Class A misdemeanor, one grade below a felony, if you are caught carrying a handgun without a license, and punishment is up to one year. These gun toting gang-bangers are getting off on probation.

Just last month a Dallas Police officer was killed in a shoot-out with a real bad guy. This guy had been to prison before, had 17 prior felony arrests and the great Tarrant County District Attorney's office gives the guy probation last year for possession of a large amount of Methamphetamine. Its obvious, at least to us smart people, that this guy shouldn't be on probation because of all of his priors, and if he had been where he was suppose to be, this Dallas Police Officer would still be with us today.

Its late and I'm starting to ramble, so until my next sign on........

ironglow · « **Reply #10 on:** April 19, 2007, 01:59:35 AM »

When we get to continuous offenders such as the meth dealer..."hard labor" prison terms should be reinstituted. Obviously, these guys that get into these illegal activities have an innate fear of hard labor..or they would have worked for a living instead of going on the crooked...
Sentencing them to what they fear may persuade them not to break the law so readily...

Questor · « **Reply #11 on:** April 19, 2007, 07:28:49 AM »

A big part of this is the copycat crime phenomenon. An interesting example of copycat murders was written about by Truman Capote in In Cold Blood, which is one of the best books ever written. In summary, up to the time of the Kansas murders that were the subject of the book, such slayings were practically unheard of. Immediately afterward, following the national publicity, of the crime, a series of similar copycat murders were committed.

So what's a lunatic to do? If he's like most, he'll be watching a lot of TV. And when it comes time for him to consider the options for committing his crime of a lifetime, he'll probably pick from a short list of well publicized examples.

Very interesting to keep in mind is that there have been recent such killing rampages of up to 17 people in countries with strong gun control. Germany for example.

Questor · « **Reply #12 on:** April 20, 2007, 03:23:08 AM »

TM7:

That one wouldn't be very important today with Democrats because it didn't conspicuously involve the use of firearms, and therefore doesn't bolster the anti-gun agenda.

deltecs · « **Reply #13 on:** April 20, 2007, 10:13:15 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on April 20, 2007, 09:31:19 AM

I know Questor...nonetheless kinda interesting these school attacks. BTW, when the masks come off it just isn't Dems against RTBA.

...TM7

I think we all agree that the RTBA is attacked by the Democratic party, which it has stated on several political platforms that firearms need restricted. I agree that Republican candidates have voted for restriction but the Republican party platform has not stated its goal to restrict firearms like the Dems have. It has cost the Dems votes too. It will cost them more. The RTBA issue is becoming more and more polarized between the party lines and candidates. It is also following the extreme polarization between Dems and Reps too. It seems that the party politics are more important than the individual issues, so no matter how good a bill is, or how much sense it makes, the other side automatically negatively criticizes it in such a way as to be meaningless except for political debate. The mask is that it doesn't matter if a politician is Rep or Dem, he is out for power, personal gain, or money from getting elected. The party,s are the real power behind our legal system. This is the mask.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #14 on:** April 20, 2007, 02:01:34 PM »

"schools are supposed to be gun free zones" I'm gonna throw the BS flag on that. If there had been a few legal CC weapons on campus, do you think this Cho guy would have been so bold???

When I was a kid, if you were gonna hunt on the way home from school, you brought your shotgun or rifle to school, turned it into the principals office and picked it up on the way home.

nomosendero · « **Reply #15 on:** April 20, 2007, 02:44:51 PM »

Quote from: beemanbeme on April 20, 2007, 02:01:34 PM

"schools are supposed to be gun free zones" I'm gonna throw the BS flag on that. If there had been a few legal CC weapons on campus, do you think this Cho guy would have been so bold???

When I was a kid, if you were gonna hunt on the way home from school, you brought your shotgun or rifle to school, turned it into the principals office and picked it up on the way home.

Yep, we actually did that here in rural AR.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 20, 2007, 03:41:43 PM »

I only put the statement up that schools are a gun free zone because I know that only the law abiding are bound by those rules. Once again a gun law has only disarmed the law abiding. Its sad the gun banners cannot see that these crimes are only happening where THEY have disarmed the law abiding.

My heart goes out to those who have been hurt out killed by this animal.

Questor · « **Reply #17 on:** April 20, 2007, 03:48:15 PM »

Here's a bit of sarcasm:

Since I don't go to school or spend much time in government buildings, I'm kinda glad that those places are gun free zones. It's much more likely that if there is a problem, then it will be some place I aint.

Besides, after there is a massacre, just wait a week and the same people who were Cho's targets this week will be rationalizing his childhood misfortunes and maintaining that he was just having a bad day. Any one can have a bad day, can't they? Especially if they're a member of an oppressed minority. He practically had to go mad and kill all those oppressors.

Brett · « **Reply #18 on:** April 21, 2007, 09:45:02 AM »

It totally blows my mind that the antis' and liberals don't comprehend or won't acknowledge that establishing "gun free Zones" is like hanging out a welcome sign to would be criminals and mass murderers. Then you have the screwballs who say let the nuts out to roam the streets amongst the general population and them blame guns, school administrators, law enforcement and anyone and everything else when a nut goes on a rampage like this. God I long for the good old days of moral principals and common sense.

How did we allow ourselves to get to this place?

deltecs · « **Reply #19 on:** April 26, 2007, 03:19:45 PM »

We got to this position by being complacent. Most parents both work and let someone else raise their children to different and opposite values or they ignore their children and let them run amok. We do not take responsibility for our children, so why should they take any for their actions. We have let the socialist minority (at that time) do our voting for us. We have stopped corporal punishment of our children by our neighbors and school authorities. We legislated laws and state agencies to protect children's well being and granted them the authority to remove them from parental control, merely on heresay. We have enacted laws that protect society instead of individual rights. We have reelected judges that re interpret the laws to broader definitions than legislated, thus now setting precedent. We have failed in our duty as citizens of the US. Our forefathers originally permitted only land owners to vote. They had something to lose. What have we, most of it is gone.