Author Topic: pig killed with airgun  (Read 12070 times)

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Offline NONYA

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2007, 08:01:06 PM »
From what i can find your air rifle wouldn't even be legal to use here so dont pack your bags for MT.
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline BUTCHER45

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2007, 02:31:18 PM »
From what i can find your air rifle wouldn't even be legal to use here so dont pack your bags for MT.

     We'll have to give it a little time then.  It may not be long before it is put in the regs as a legal for big game hunting.  I am amazed at how many states are writing them in already; the numbers are rapidly growing and I feel 2008 is going to be a giant year for the big bore airgun.

                                                                                                                             
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Offline tomzuki

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2007, 03:12:44 PM »
yes, nothings more rewarding then a little cow hunting at your local slaughter house with a 22short at point-blank range or air rifle hunting in a barn yard for farm raised cheese goats and meat buffalo.... ;D

I have to agree.  I checked the local regs, air-rifles for small game only, .20 caliber or larger.  No .177 no matter how expensive the rifle. Also, pictures with the roadway and telephone poles in  the background really dont impress.  If you enjoy this type of "Canned" hunt no dis-respect, but the outdoors and getting away from it all is most of the experience................
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Offline NONYA

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2007, 03:18:22 PM »
With all the opportunity's we have to hunt wild game I dont understand the high fence hunter,you are just shooting livestock,it is NOT hunting,regardless of how ridiculous the weapon you use.
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline BUTCHER45

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2007, 04:07:53 PM »
     Nonya's thoughts on high fence hunting have no bearing on the ability of bigbore airguns to take hogs and other big game, and have no relevance in this debate.  They certainly don't change the fact that animals are going down fast to these special rifles whatever side of the fence they are on.
     I live in Oregon and hunt small game on public land for the most part and find it to be rewarding and a good use of time whether I get a kill or not.  However, once again, that is neither here nor there.
     AGAIN, FOR THE LAST TIME, the discussion evolved from the .177 stunt to the very real capability of the bigbore airguns to take hogs and other big game for real (not just pin-point brain shots).  Where the animal is standing makes no difference whatsoever and does not change the laws of physics as some here seem to believe. 
     I feel I am trying to present facts (read truth) to someone that has no interest in truth.  He appears to be interested only in arguing whether he's making any sense or not.  Some people just like to argue whether they have a point or not, and throw about insults to whoever will entertain them.  They don't find an actual thought process at all necessary for this reason, as to come to a resolution would end the argument,; and the argument is how they get their kicks and make themselves feel like they are important and making some sort of difference.  It is much easier for them to tear something down than it is to build it.  Really they are just all-around un-happy people that we should all keep in our prayers.
     I shot the ram to demonstrate the ability of this airgun; not to demonstrate hunting skill.  How many times must I write this?  GET IT THROUGH YOUR OBNOXIOUSLY THICK HEADS ALREADY!!!  I do not speak any languages other than English so if you can't grasp what I'm saying I don't know how else to put it to you. 
     High fenced hunting is not the issue at hand.  To ridicule high fence operations while discussing the killing ability of big-bore airguns on hogs and other big game is nothing short of irrational and demonstrates both the absence of basic reasoning skills and also a lack of a leg to stand on.  Truly ridiculous behavior.
     A a 255grainer with a .36 meplat traveling 900fps does not care if it is being propelled by air or gunpowder; the deer can't tell either so it will kill just the same.  Nonya's thought's of using a weapon with a Displacement Value of 80.1 as being "ridiculous" to kill a hog or deer with just don't add up any when the FACTS are taken into consideration.  According to Veral Smith and the thousands of kill reports he has received backing his method of evaluating cast projectile performance, this will do the job just fine. 
     If anyone does not understand why a meplat that size traveling at that speed is an effective killer there is a forum on GBO called "Ask Veral".  Post your doubts and he will explain it to you as well as it can be explained.  However I doubt he would tolerate the dis-respectful behavior displayed on this thread. 
     Again, Nonya's thoughts on high fence hunting have no bearing on the ability of bigbore airguns to take hogs and other big game, and have no relevance in this debate.  They certainly don't change the fact that animals are going down fast to these special rifles whatever side of the fence they are on. 
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Offline NONYA

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2007, 07:26:12 PM »
They wont be legally killed with an airgun here in MT any time soon,and we dont have penned game to shoot so wont happen that way either.Have you considered how extremely cold weather would effect the effectiveness of one ofthe air rifles?Could make a slow rifle projectile way too slow to do anything but wound.When you show pics of pen raised game killed with an air rifle you have proved anything to me,i could kill on of our steers with my .22 cal crossman and prove just as much as you have.
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline JGREG

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2007, 07:55:30 PM »
What is the cost of the high powered air gun?  and how do you  power it  ?
Thanks

Offline BUTCHER45

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2007, 08:04:12 PM »
     I have shown that these air rifles can hunt with the best of them within their range just as effectively as a handgun or archerty.  Note the lack of any intelligent opposition to my view; just desperate, derranged, senseless opposition. 
     Anyone with a fully-functioning mind can see the effectiveness once they take a look at the information at hand.  It has been spelled out to where any healthy-minded grade-schooler could understand it.  I will not respond further to biased, irrational jibbersish from those that haven't the ability to reason let alone carry on a civil conversation like respectable adults do. 
     JGREG post your question on the airgun forum here at GBO and I will answer it tomorrow.  I am through with this thread.
     Bye, Nonya.  I will leave you to argue amongst yourself now.  I hope you get healthy soon. 
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Offline NONYA

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2007, 09:05:28 PM »
Cant hunt bg with them at all in my state,so you havnt proved anything other than you can kill livestock with them.If you are such an expert on the subject and so willing to explain why dont you answer my cold temperature question?Never considered it in your vast research did you?Anyone with a fully functional mind and some grasp of hunting and air guns can figure out that they are mediocre at best and not even legal for hunting in many states,what are you trying to prove?
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline BUTCHER45

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2007, 05:27:52 PM »
     I am not an expert at bullet ballistics.  I do, however listen carefully to those that are and aim to be one myself someday.

     Just to clear up any cold-weather confusion.

     Going from 65 degrees to zero degree's will cost me about 8fps at 100 yards.  I will be sure to take that massive loss of killing power into consideration! ::) ::) Jibberish.

     If your line of thought is directed towards the problems co2 airguns have at low temperatures; these rifles do not operate on co2; they operate on dry air so they do not have the problems co2 have in cold weather.  It gets cold in Oregon, too, not just "your state".
     The 255grain air pellet at 900fps is the same killer as the .45 Colt's 255grainer at 900fps.  I am not trying to prove it as it is a fact.  I am simply bringing this fact to light is all. 
     The .45 Colt used to be the most powerful revolver cartridge in the world and thought fully capable of big game hunting.  I guess animals are just harder to kill these days, and laugh off the air driven 255 while falling to the powder driven one.
     Oh yea.  Two more wild deer taken yesterday back east with .45 airguns; both complete penetration with an exit wound through the shoulders turning lungs to soup. 
     As a side note (not that it mattered to the deer, not the pellet)  but there wasn't a fence to be seen anywhere!
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Offline NONYA

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2007, 07:22:12 PM »
Have you tested it in cold weather or just guesstimating?Nobody is denying that you can kill game with it(WHERE LEGAL) but why try?
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline BUTCHER45

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2007, 09:01:31 PM »
     Going by various ballistic calculators.  They would have to ALL be pretty far off to make a difference.
     It has been freezing at night lately and it is always raining if you look.  I'll test it in the frozen rain sometime soon just for you with the chrony at 50 yards and we'll see what is lost.  Bet is won't make any signiificent difference.
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Offline NONYA

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2007, 07:38:51 AM »
Any air driven mechanism is going to be greatly effected by extreme air temps.
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline STUMPJMPR

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2007, 04:48:10 AM »
I am by no means an air rifle expert but if you take a look at some of the old black powder load data for cowboy cartridges such as the 44-40, 38-40....their really isn't that much of a difference in velocity or energy....and i can guarantee a lot of men and beast alike met their end to those old black powder rounds......

Offline mroily

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2008, 07:44:52 PM »
Quote from: cabin4 on September 06, 2007, 12:18:51 AM
yes, nothings more rewarding then a little cow hunting at your local slaughter house with a 22short at point-blank range or air rifle hunting in a barn yard for farm raised cheese goats and meat buffalo....


quote from nonya LOL EXACTLY!I dont see any game in these pics that wasnt killled in a pen(High fence hunts),like to see you take a doe wt/md with one where I hunt!

I shot a doe from 50 yds with my 909 .45 air rifle 141 gr. roundball . the doe ran about 30 yd. & droped  :o
& not in any fence , pen  :P

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Offline super mario

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2009, 03:56:53 AM »
I dont care how you chunk a piece of lead. If its big enough and fast enough its gonna kill. You could launch it with gun powder, air, butane or out of a sling shot for all I care. 200+ grains over 700 fps is going to leave a big hole.

Offline jamaldog87

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2009, 06:13:08 AM »
i just want to add my 2cents. I had a crosman 2200 and a 22LR gun. i used them both to hunt all kinds of varmints and small game. Up to about 50 yards there was no real diffidence between the airgun and real gun and game animal like coons and beavers. It was more like the 270 vs the 30/06 on game, the larger and faster one having more put down power and range up to a point.  I have seen hogs killed here with the 909 45cal airguns and there legal here in FL for hogs and non-game and some other animals. In my book if it can pass the phone book test(going thought one or most of it) then it can kill big game.
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2009, 05:45:03 PM »
How long does it take to reload one of these high power air rifles? What is the process of getting the compressed air into it?
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Offline BUTCHER45

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2009, 06:48:24 PM »
How long does it take to reload one of these high power air rifles? What is the process of getting the compressed air into it?

     Hey Cabin4,

     All of the bigbore airguns are single-shot guns with the exception of the Career Ultra 9mm lever action repeater.

     The reloading procedure depends on the make of rifle (or, in some cases, pistol).  Both the DAQ and Bontrager bigbores have a bolt single-action that is loaded one shot at a time, and then a seperate bolt for the hammer is cocked back.  The BGMF .452 Gargoyle rifle's bolt does double-duty by cocking the hammer while also allowing to load the slug.

     The popular Korean bigbores are the SamYang 909 .454, Career Dragon Slayer, and Career Fire 201s 9mm.  The SamYang909, and CareerFire201S both lload the same way.  The breech sleeve is pushed forward, exposing the loading port.  A slug is loaded into the port, and then usually seated into the throat with an allen wrench or something of the sort.  The breech cap is closed, then the cocking lever on the side of the receiver is pulled back to cock the hammer (I know the 909 has two cocking positions, one for low, and the other for high power). 

     In the more powerful DAQ, Bontrager, and BGMF-type rifles one fill of air will generally give two good shots with a finishing shot or two in .45 caliber, and 5-6 full power shots in .308 keep in mind this is an over-all generalization when describing these rifles as a whole.

     My SamYang 909 has been power-tuned by BGMF, and for dedicated big game hunting shoots 4 good powerful shots of 240grain slugs at 690-700fps.  It doesn't have the absolute power of the full-custom guns but it does produce 4-5 consistent high-power shots (probably a few more on low power) for plinking and shooting nice groups, that could also kill any deer out to my self-imposed range limit (currently 50 yards) and will be my idea of the ideal gun for deep-woods predator calling.  I'll be going after deer back east next year; hopefully in two maybe three of the several states that now have airguns included in their big game regulations.

     To refill with air the easiest way is to use a scuba tank with special fittings.  This way of filling the rifle with air takes only about 20 seconds or so to do so it is very convenient for extended shooting sessions. 
     I use my HillPump most of the time to fill my rifle, as I ride my mountain bike into the woods and would rather bring my take-down Hillpump with me than try carrying a scuba tank on my bike.  I simply attach a foster female on the end of the pumps hose, to the male foster fitting on my rifles air reservoir, then pump my gun up to 2600-3000psi like I was pumping a bicycle tire.  There is a nice little contraption on the side of the pump that removes the moisture from the air so it doesn't go into your guns air reservoir which is nice. 
     Once you buy a HillPump for your air rifle, there is the satisfaction of knowing you have invested in a lifetime of free propellant, and air independence.  No more waiting until the scuba shop opens so you can purchase air for your rifle.  Just grab your pump and go.  If you cast your own .45Colt slugs, you are totally self-sufficient.





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Offline Cabin4

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2009, 06:05:20 AM »
Very interesting. Of course there is a significant dilemma with the reloading process on these air guns... While I don't doubt they can kill big game, using them on a challenging back country hunt or even a deep woods hunt would be a completely impossible idea. Simply out of the question.

Thanks for the detailed explanation and pics. Very interesting stuff.
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Offline BUTCHER45

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2009, 09:30:15 AM »
Very interesting. Of course there is a significant dilemma with the reloading process on these air guns... While I don't doubt they can kill big game, using them on a challenging back country hunt or even a deep woods hunt would be a completely impossible idea. Simply out of the question.

Thanks for the detailed explanation and pics. Very interesting stuff.

     OK I'm curious so I'll bite.  Other than the handicap of limited range, why do you say they wouldn't work for a deep woods, or a challenging back country hunt?  The pump isn't that hard to pack along, the guns are very reliable, and they reload faster and easier than a muzzleloader.

     "Completely impossible, and out of the question" seems just a bit extreme.
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2009, 12:54:55 PM »
Trying to carry around a foot pump or a canister of compressed air on a back country hunt is ridiculous.
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Offline BUTCHER45

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2009, 02:13:07 PM »
Trying to carry around a foot pump or a canister of compressed air on a back country hunt is ridiculous.

Is that it?

The handle and base come right off of the pump (takedown design).  The tube of the pump is about 1 1/4 inches across, is about 2ft 1 inch long, and the base is about 2 1/4 inches across.  Pump weighs around 4? lbs or so. 

There are also scuba-type tanks that are only 13 inches long, 4 inches in diameter, and weigh 4 lbs when full of more than enough air for a hunting excursion.  I would prefer the pump for backpacking, though.

So I can see that it adds weight to a pack like any other gear, but "completely impossible, and out of the question"  seems to be quite an exaggeration. 

Packing a very slim 4lbs of extra weight may be an in-surmountable obstacle for some people, but it is hardly anything I would be concerned with if it meant hunting with my favorite gun.  A back-up rifle, or archery gear weighs more, and takes up a bit more room. 

Oh, I forgot to ask what you meant when you mentioned "there is a significant dilemma with the reloading process".  It's a little faster to reload than a muzzleloader.
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2009, 02:32:41 PM »
Your hiding behind a stump or large rock or sitting up a cliff you climbed to take a shot of a life time.... your moving quietly so as not to make a sound...and  now your going to unpack your pump, stand up and start pumping!   :D :D

I don't think so.
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Offline BUTCHER45

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2009, 02:46:15 PM »
Your hiding behind a stump or large rock or sitting up a cliff you climbed to take a shot of a life time.... your moving quietly so as not to make a sound...and  now your going to unpack your pump, stand up and start pumping!   :D :D

I don't think so.

Well if someone forgot to put air into their rifle before leaving home/camp that is on them!

These rifles hold their charge forever.  I can pump the rifle full of air, put it in the closet, take it out a year later and shoot it without a problem. 

As I explained in the post above, I can pump my rifle up with enough air to give me at least four full power shots, with a few finisher shots as well off of 1 fill.  If someone can't kill a deer in 4 shots, then they can't kill a deer.
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Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2009, 03:27:51 PM »
i saw a video of a pig killed with  a single stroke  22 air gun

i   watch it at ths shot show at  gamo air guns

single  head shot  i think...he  went right down
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Offline BUTCHER45

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2009, 06:01:26 PM »
i saw a video of a pig killed with  a single stroke  22 air gun

i   watch it at ths shot show at  gamo air guns

single  head shot  i think...he  went right down

I think what you saw was the most irresponsible, and false advertising in the industry of airguns.

I also think what you saw was a pig stunned by a pellet.  In one of the infamous Gamo Hog videos, you can plainly hear the pig grunt after being shot "in the brain", which makes me think the pig was merely stunned.  I don't think a pig that has had it's brain taken out can grunt like that.  I've seen several hogs shot in the brain and none of them made a peep.

The pellets Gamo pushes also have a terrible reputation when it comes to accuracy, and are very light.  There are way better small game pellets out there.

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Offline S.B.

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2009, 04:17:29 AM »
Quite a feat, surely you took some pictures of the kill?
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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2009, 08:22:28 AM »
Quite a feat, surely you took some pictures of the kill?
Steve

Who took pictures of what kill?  Are you asking Jamaldog?

Here is a pic showing where 228grains of .454 SWC hit.  I was shooting at a slight angle from right to left, so it actually centered on the brain just about right.

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Offline Bluegunner

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Re: pig killed with airgun
« Reply #59 on: January 19, 2009, 02:36:54 AM »
I found this thread very interesting!  Just a thought guys and gals, for what it's worth!  All guns push their bullets with gas!  An airgun uses one form of gas, conventional (powder burning) guns use another.  The secret is to generate enough push on the bullet before it leaves the barrel to do the job.