Need Help on Shooting a Lever

[Rat Rod Mac]

I don't know if this should be addressed to this forum or a reloading forum, but here goes. Recently I grabbed a model 92 in 44-40 and would like to run a few rounds down the bore. I have heard that you can, but you really should not shoot jacketed bullets in these. Now I've reloaded for my groundhog rifles for years, but have never messed with cast bullets. I've also read a little bit about casting bullets and swaging them, but I don't really know anything about this process and to tell the truth don't really want to get into it. My question to you guys is this,, is there a manufacturer that I can just buy some cast bullets from, take them home and reload them with fairly good results. If so who do you recommend and what grain slug? I think if you buy loaded rounds they're 200 gr. Any suggestions or tips or even pet loads would be very much appreciated. Thank you for your time and trouble.  RRM

[SHOOTALL]

LEADHEAD BULLETS WORK GOOD ! they are bhn 20-22 hardness , contact them at www.proshootpro.com or 620-549-6475 .
midwayusa.com also has lead bullets , get prelubed , keep speed low enough to avoid bbl. leading , use a good crimp in the crimp groove ( make sure the bullet is for the round you are loading ie. meets overall cart. length )
and use cast bullet loads only from a good reloading book !
i picked up some for a 30/30 at gaff and sons in ST LOUIS a year ago and believe it or not they shoot good !
let us know how it works .

[fastbike]

I can't give you specific recommendations for the 44-40, but I have good luck shooting Oregon Trail Laser Cast bullets in my Puma 92 in 45 Colt. There should be a number of sources for various loads. You need to decide what you want the load to do.

I don't know if this should be addressed to this forum or a reloading forum, but here goes. Recently I grabbed a model 92 in 44-40 and would like to run a few rounds down the bore. I have heard that you can, but you really should not shoot jacketed bullets in these. Now I've reloaded for my groundhog rifles for years, but have never messed with cast bullets. I've also read a little bit about casting bullets and swaging them, but I don't really know anything about this process and to tell the truth don't really want to get into it. My question to you guys is this,, is there a manufacturer that I can just buy some cast bullets from, take them home and reload them with fairly good results. If so who do you recommend and what grain slug? I think if you buy loaded rounds they're 200 gr. Any suggestions or tips or even pet loads would be very much appreciated. Thank you for your time and trouble.  RRM

[wncchester]

I have no personal experience with a 44-40 but its not magic, just another cartridge case.  Your 92 barrel is just another barrel.  There is absolutely no reason not to fire jacketed bullets in it if you wish.

Of course any barrel will last a lot longer - forever? - with well lubed cast bullets than it will with jacketed.  But, any low-powered cartridge will give a barrel life of 5 to 6 thousand rounds with jacketed.  So, the question becomes, "Will you actually shoot that many rounds through your 92?"

I like to play with cast and you will too but the reasons have nothing to do with barrel life vs. jacketed.

[SHOOTALL]

i don't load a 44-40 either but have heard that people get 44spl. cyl's for colt sa because it is easier to load , something about setting the sholder back is easy to do on the 44-40 ! but then again they have been around a long time !
and i would be suprised if "pratical accuracy would be hurt after 10000 rounds of jacketed ammo if kept to standard vel.
a bench rest gun might show a loss after 500 -1000 ( but a hunting gun i would question ! besides at $15.00 per box of 50 you would shoot $3000.00 worth of ammo ! and thats alot ! oh the reason i used $15.00 around here it about 1/2 way between factory and nice jacketed reloads no smoke and mirrows !

[navylawdog]

Rat Rod Mac,

You should be able to shoot jacketed bullets through your gun. You will just need to get all of the lead out of the barrel before firing the jacketed bullets otherwise your accuracy will suffer. Also I have heard that the .44-40 is one of the hardest calibers to reload because of the old thin walled cases and the awkward shoulder angle. Most just stay with the 200 grain lead bullets in the the .44-40.

Navylawdog

[Oldtimer]

Stick with bullets in the 200 to 210 grain range.  The problem with reloading the .44-40 is the combination of a stubby bullet and thin neck.  It is easy to get the bullet misaligned and then the case neck crushes, and you have a ruined case.  Maybe in an original Model 73 the barrel metal would be so soft that continued use of jacketed bullets might cause excess wear, but in a modern weapon, I don't think you would live long enough to shoot out a barrel. One problem that I have encountered with my Rossi Model 92 is that , with jacketed bullets, the bullet will recede into the case if loaded into the magazine.  I have tried two different brands of reloading dies, and the only way I have gotten around it is to use lead bullets.  This problem has not occurred with factory ammo, but it is loaded to only about 1,100 f/s in a rifle.  It is possible to get to 1700 to 1800 f/s by reloading.  Even a case full of black powder will give you about 1300 to 1350 f/s and that will drop a deer very nicely.  Trim length and length overall are both critical in the Model 92, and accuracy will suffer if you don't keep a close eye on them.  That said, it is a great rifle to shoot and carries well in the field.  The .44-40 was the .30-30 of the 19th century and is as accurate as most other rounds fired out of a lever action.

[WyrTwister]

Stick with bullets in the 200 to 210 grain range.  The problem with reloading the .44-40 is the combination of a stubby bullet and thin neck.  It is easy to get the bullet misaligned and then the case neck crushes, and you have a ruined case.  Maybe in an original Model 73 the barrel metal would be so soft that continued use of jacketed bullets might cause excess wear, but in a modern weapon, I don't think you would live long enough to shoot out a barrel. One problem that I have encountered with my Rossi Model 92 is that , with jacketed bullets, the bullet will recede into the case if loaded into the magazine.  I have tried two different brands of reloading dies, and the only way I have gotten around it is to use lead bullets.  This problem has not occurred with factory ammo, but it is loaded to only about 1,100 f/s in a rifle.  It is possible to get to 1700 to 1800 f/s by reloading.  Even a case full of black powder will give you about 1300 to 1350 f/s and that will drop a deer very nicely.  Trim length and length overall are both critical in the Model 92, and accuracy will suffer if you don't keep a close eye on them.  That said, it is a great rifle to shoot and carries well in the field.  The .44-40 was the .30-30 of the 19th century and is as accurate as most other rounds fired out of a lever action.

     See if Lee makes a factory crimp die in .44-40 .  Yhey do for bottle neck rifle and .45-70 .

     These dies have the power to form a crimp groove on a copper jacketed bullet that has none .

Wyr
God bless

[Lloyd Smale]

there is a reason why they recomend not shooting jacketed in a 4440. Many 4440s have .427 barrels rather then 429 and it can cause pressure problems with jacketed bullets. Same with handguns. While a good portion of the have standard 44 barrels alot of them have the cylinders throated for 427 bullets and that to can cause problems with a jacketed bullet. Best to slug it out but i would guess that if its a modern gun it  has a standard 44 barrel but I dont know how there chambers are cut and whether a 430 cast bullet would even chamber.