Author Topic: THE HUNTING DEBATE”  (Read 3957 times)

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Offline jamaldog87

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THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« on: April 20, 2007, 06:25:36 AM »

one of my peta friends came over to do some shooting at the range with me. On the way back we started talking about hunting. He asked me why i hunt and i could not think of why, so after i got home i started think about why and here with i came up with.

There is a debate going on in America over rather it is ethically correct to hunt and kill animals just for sport. The harvesting of game animals for food has been vital to the existence of man-kind for centries. Hunting of deer, turkey, squirrels, rabbits, doves, and pheasants, enabled people to survive in the “new world”, and was essential to everyday life. The colonists lived off the land and what it could provide. As Americans expanded west, and their numbers grew, game hunters had to slaughter hundreds of animals for food. Such slaughters led to the demise of the buffalo in western states like Kansas. Hunting guidelines established by sportmen such as Theodore Rosevelt in 1870, helped to set the rules for hunting. Americans began to depend less on hunting for food due to the various inventions that beniffited ranchers and farmers. The invention of the railroad allowed lots of cattle to be shipped and sold to far-away states, and people stopped hunting for food and began hunting as a sport. Hunting at all became seen as wrong by most Americans, and people questioned if the killing of animals should be allowed. Around 1970 , such animal rights groups like PETA, began fighting for the consideration of animal’s right to survive. These groups believe animals are equal to humans and they should never be harmed to benefit humans. Others say that hunting promotes violence and bad behavior in children. Merrit Clifton who founded the group Animal People, believes that hunting can lead to serial killers, child molestration, prostitution, and wife beatings. Hunters often trespass, litter, dispose of killeld animals inappropriately, and misbehave in public. These actions have led to less and less land being available for hunting. Landowners feel they can’t trust hunters. They are concerned that the hunters will leave gates open, destroy property, poach, and use unsafe methods. Hunters have been known to display bloody deer on the top of their vans, leave tail-gates down so everyone can see the dead deer and are seen as oppressive rednecks with guns. The major argument against hunting is that it’s too dangerous. The media has inspired this belief by many negative stories about hunters and hunting accidents. A arguement for hunting is that deer meat is very healthy to eat and low in fat, and hunting provides homeless people with meat they would never have gotten otherwise. Hunters often donate unused meat to local food banks. Also, hunting is a great management tool for animal population control. Coyotes, wolves, mountain lions, panthers, and birds of prey are all predators that evade neighborhoods and are controlled by local hunters. Hunting is a benefit to humans by limiting the number of deer each year who are hit by vehicles. These accidents cause a estimated $50 million dollars in vehicle damage and run up auto insurance costs. Deer accidents, according to a study done by Cornell University in 1990, cause two deaths and a 1, 000 injuries each year. Wild animals also invade yards destroying lawns and gardens. This is a huge problem in areas where hunting is prohibited by law. Monroeville, P.A. has suffered greatly by not allowing hunting of wild animals, and it’s residents lawns and gardens are infested with hungry wild animals searching for food. Eight foot fences have been erected around the town to keep dangerous animals from invading homes and causing further mayhem. Professional hunters who are exspensive to hire, have to be called into these areas to eradicate such animals. Sport hunters could have been a more natural alternative. Sport hunting has been a proven asset to both humans and animals in the wild, and allowing a balanced harmony between man and animal. James A. Swan a environmental psychologist, has written that whenever we deny our natural instincts such as hunting, we create problems for ourselves, those around us, and the world. He states that in our inner nature we are all animals with a desire to hunt of some sort. Our challenge as humans is to find the best ways to express our instinctual nature. We must learn to deal with the deepest issues of life and death and use the most ethical methods of hunting. The last advantage of the hunting argument is that hunting helps the economy. South Dakota Fish and Game Departments have stated that sportsmen who hunt contribute3million dollars a day to wildlife conservation funds. Over a period of just one year, this adds up to 1.5 billion extra dollars. It s also estimated that sportsmen contribute 14 billion dollars to the American economy, which supports more than 300, 000 jobs. This information is according to big hunting states like South Dakota. The Louisana Dept. of Wildlife and Fisheries has had a huge problem with Nutria rodents. These rodents are native to South Americia, and has been a introduced and invasive semi-aquatic rodent in coastal Louisana. Nutria escapes and possible releases from nutria farms in the 1930s and the decline in the fur trapping industry since mid 1980, has resulted in their over population. Annual surveys have revealed that about 80, 000 acres of coastal wetlands in Louisiana can be damaged by the nutria. Since the introduction of the Coastwide Nutria Control Program, the amount of impacted acres has been reduced to 53, 475 acres. Nutria herbivory damage is a on going problem, and many damaged sites are not likely to recover naturally. Without comprehensive hunting of these nutria pests, the Louisiana coastal ecosystem is very threathened. The Coastwide Nutria Control Program pays hunters $4 per nutria tail delivered by registered hunters to their collection centers in coastal Louisiana. The goal of the program is to encourage the harvest of up to 400, 000 nutria each year. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service shows that America’s hunters are wealthier than ever, and they spend more money than ever on their sport. There has been a 29% increase in hunting over the past ten years. Hunting has been often cited as the greastest wildlife conservation movement in history. The successful revitalization of whitetail deer, turkeys, elk, and more game animals that hovered near extinction, is the envy of the industrial world. This is a pleasant reality in which American hunters live in the 21st century; states Jim Posewitz director at large for Orion, The Hunter’s Institute think tank group. Some non-hunting groups accept hunting as a legitmate way to acquire meat, and this practice is healthier than the slaughter-house fare. Numerous surveys suggest that most people will continue to accept huntin if every sportsman obeys the laws, shoots carefully and accurately, and utilizes every part of the wild animals they kill. Despite the pro advantages of hunting, this sport may come to a end with groups like PETA that encourages that hunting is wrong and unjust.

i gave my paper to my peta friend and ask well what you think. He said " i see, you hunt because you just a animal at heart and it's in you to hunt" he ask if he could keep it to show to his group and i said do it.
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Offline elmer

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2007, 08:54:23 AM »
Hunting may be considered a sport by some, but many people hunt for food. Here are a few of my thoughts on the subject.

We are not vegetarian by nature, and I prefer free range deer and hogs to store bought beef and pork. I think people should be more connected to where their food comes from regardless of what they choose to eat. I delight in pointing out to semi-vegetarians (ones that eat dairy) how my veal is a by-product of their dairy product. True vegetarians (vegans) should also know what animal's habit was destroyed when land is clear cut to grow the increased crops needed for more vegans. For anyone that is not a vegan, I can assure them my hunting is more ethical than paying someone else to kill the animal and deliver it to me, or pretending to be a vegetarian while consuming dairy, eggs, fish, etc.

A side benefit of my hunting hogs is a decrease in hog population numbers, no matter how small, since a lot of animal's habitat is being destroyed in Texas due to the increase in the hog population and their very destructive nature.

My hunting of deer helps control their numbers which is needed to reduce the auto - deer collisions. A reduction in herd size also helps reduce disease and starvation caused when their population exceeds the carrying capacity of their habitat.

Areas that severely restrict hunting end up with serious problems due to animal over population. If hunting is ever banned I predict even the vegans will be fighting with the hogs and deer for their food. A single hog can destroy acres of crops per night. Deer will get into your beans and peas and eat them before they are mature. We have already seen cases where bucks have killed gardeners because they are territorial and wanted what was in the garden.
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Offline beemanbeme

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2007, 02:34:30 PM »
Many of us are very small cogs in very large machines.  The finished product -- whether it's goods or service-- is an abstract to us.  We know we put in the left door screw number 7 but it is hard to relate that to a finished automobile.  We get money for what we do and run around town with our credit cards and debit cards and care for our families.  Again it's hard to relate the goods and services we receive to old screw number seven. 
When you grow a garden and put veggies on the table, that you have tended from seed to maturity, you get a sense of fulfillment that cannot be matched by store bought veggies; when you feed your family meat that you have killed and butchered and perhaps even cooked, you have a sense of completeness that can't be bought in a butcher shop.

Also, just like a well-fed cat will stalk a bird, I hunt because I am a predator.  (let's hear a GRRRRRR for the Beeman. :D )

Offline elmer

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2007, 03:38:02 PM »
Well put Beeman.
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Offline Land_Owner

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2007, 04:58:06 PM »
The title is all wrong.  There is no debate.  Period. 

We hunt.  Period.  End of stroy.

Offline SDS-GEN

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2007, 06:13:35 AM »
Man is a predator, always has been.  To deny the urge to hunt is no different than denying the urge to breed, or the want for power (hierarchy).

Offline jamaldog87

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2007, 10:24:21 AM »
too me if i going to eat meat, i am going to kill it and see the look in it's eyes. For every animal i kill  i remaber when and were i killed it and i will always see the look of death in my mind. I love the feel of going after prey and eating something that i kill by my own hand. I also love seeing animals and when i eat them a part of them will always live inside me. For me to hunt to to live because we are just animals when it comes down to it and we should live life to the fulls.
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Offline A-ALLOY

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2007, 06:55:25 AM »
GRRRRRRRRRRR  I like the garden story Beemanbeme. To hold good dirt in your hand you can smell the soil.By the sweat of your brow you grow food to put on the table. Share this with friends and family around the table, a timeless tradition. Same way with hunting, I take responsibility for
taking a wonderful animals life, who was probably having a good day before I showed up. But when I
unwrap that wonderful flesh and all those memory's of the hunt comeback, I love that smell.

Like Beemanbeme said fulfillment, sense of completeness.

Offline NONYA

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2007, 12:21:19 PM »
Let me hang my hat up on this muley rack and take a long look at this photo on the wall of me and Dad with his buck from last year while I finish this antelope loin dinner and Ill try to think of an answer to that question......
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline 379 Peterbilt

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2007, 05:29:38 AM »
jamaldog87

Your shooting bud belongs to peta? That is a new one. Anyways, many good points raised to sell your and our side......but 2 things come to my mind - 1) We sportsman can argue logic and common sense untill we're blue in the face, but the whackos will never relent in their adgenda. 2) a little tip when debating peta types, don't ever go on the defense. Sportsman do not need to "defend" hunting. Start asking them the questions as to why they push their ideas onto everyone and what benefit it is to the amimals (none). Put them in the position to have to win the debate. As we all know, key to winning a debate is directly affected by logic and common sense, and HISTORICAL TRUTHS that show proof.

Little know fact -  Mary Beth Sweetland, a vice president at peta, is a type A diabetic. This woman tows the peta line wanting all animal testing banned. But the funny thing at play is that she herself owes her life to the successful testing of a drug tested on dogs. For her to live, she takes meds daily. When asked about such hypocracy, her statement was something along the lines of she needs to stay alive so to help save the animals. Peta founder Ingrid Newkirk is ON RECORD saying peta stands for total animal liberation. Yup, the blind would not have guide dogs under the master peta plan. No more honey on the morning toast either. That is the mentality we are dealing with at the front lines (so to speak)

I suspect few peta members know these facts. Fewer yet of the general American public.

Run some of this by your peta buddy.


Offline RaySendero

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2007, 06:43:15 AM »
My son and I killed 3 deer this last year.  We cleaned them, I de-boned them and had a local processor grind it all but the backstraps and tenderloins.  So far this year - Fried backstrap/tenderloin, Sausage on a bun, Breakfast sausage, Tacos, Spaghetti, Lasagna,  Jambalaya and Gumbo!

What's the question again?
    Ray

Offline elmer

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2007, 07:05:19 AM »
Let's not forget part of their animal liberation include euthanasia (http://www.petakillsanimals.com/). PETA kills more animals a week than I have killed my whole life. They would rather see them dead than enslaved as pets. You can not reason with wack jobs. They are part of the fringe that believes freedom of speech is saying whatever they want (true or not) and shouting down any opposing viewpoints.
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Offline 379 Peterbilt

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2007, 08:20:59 AM »
Penn & Teller did a nice little video that exposes peta quite well.

Google this to find it:
penn & teller youtube peta video

It will be the first hit on the search.

*Warning* Contains off colored language. But in a friendly, point driving, kind of way   ;D ;) 8)

Offline flintlock

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2007, 08:50:30 AM »
No debate for me...I hunt for food, not "trophys"...I hunt land that my family has owned and farmed for decades, if more people farmed they would understand why you needed to keep populations under control...Last year there were over 15,000 deer in NC hit by cars, I would rather harvest cleanly than see them wasted...When I lived on the farm we also raised pigs, killed them and smoked the hams, made sausage, etc....

I will continue to hunt in this way as long as we own the land to do so.

Offline alsaqr

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2007, 03:43:42 AM »
i don't have any PETA "friends."

Offline jamaldog87

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2007, 08:01:37 AM »
were friends because he likes guns(i sold some guns to him) and he is my neighbor. we just don't talk about hunt or animal rights stuff but we do talk about guns and ammo.
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Offline beemanbeme

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2007, 08:25:31 AM »
That's too bad, Alsagar, maybe if you did, you could convince them of the ethics of your position and the foolishness of theirs. 

Offline alsaqr

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2007, 12:31:13 AM »
"That's too bad, Alsagar, maybe if you did, you could convince them of the ethics of your position and the foolishness of theirs."

Sorry, but i will leave that to you.   Used to try and reform liberals but gave it up as futile. 

Offline jamaldog87

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2007, 07:34:47 AM »
your right, it's like try to get a pig to fly, it's not going to happen.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2007, 08:04:17 AM »
people eating tasty animals ?
if your "friend " is true to his cause meat is meat  how you get it should not matter or is the cow less of an animal than a deer ? We hunt for many reasons like to be part of the food chain hopefully at the top ! Or to prove we can survive , to keep old skills alive , game control , or control non game animals , we cut weeds ? I know men who hunt for no better reason than to be togather fellowship sort a speak ! why is it important to have a reason , you could list the same reasons people play other sports  , exercise  , be outside , be with like minded people etc.
I have a little story , a good friend hunted a track of land for years , a lady from a city up north bought it to raise christmas trees , my friends wife became friends with this lady , anyway she refused to let anyone hunt , well after a few years she called and begged my friend to hunt her place seemed the deer had destoried about $ 10,000 worth of trees , some of the big deer had just taken their horns and beat up the trees for no reason while she watched !
educate your peta buddy if he shoots ya might have a chance !
jamaldog87 only you know what makes you hunt and as long as you know thats all that matters !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline jamaldog87

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2007, 07:01:23 AM »
that right. from the day i first pick up my slingshot to hunt rat to the day i get to old to fire a rifle i will hunt. I will hunt with anything, a knife, slingshot, sword, spear,blowgun, shotgun anything. as long as i have a weapons i will hunt.
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Offline NONYA

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2007, 07:27:27 AM »
I really want to see this sword hunting you keep talking about.....
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline jamaldog87

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2007, 07:38:39 AM »
i had read  some were that they used to used swords for hunting on horse back. If i had to i would.
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Offline NONYA

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2007, 08:10:59 AM »
Id like to watch that,if you killl a deer or an elk from horseback with a sword you have accomplished something....
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline *ROCK-MAN*

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2007, 01:45:09 PM »
I mainly hunt for theropy.It pleases my soul and I feel closer to GOD and his kingdom when in the woods all alone.This was instilled in me by my father as it was in him by his father and I'm sure the list goes on forever.What gets me is most of your non-hunters are probably just scared of the woods.LOL
The post above hit close to home.I harvested 4 animals last year and skinned,quartered and cut the steaks from them all and what was left went to the meatmarket to be made into sausage and groung meat.I also fish and clean and eat my own fish.
If I couldn't do one or the other on a regular basis I would be insane already thereby I consider it theropy.
God Bless all , even the antis,
Rock
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2007, 02:46:23 AM »
I would jump out of a tree and bite then on the neck if they had a season for it !
Just kidding , would rather stick um with a sword !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline corbanzo

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2007, 04:03:22 AM »
I have had the veggies on my case about hunting, and the unfairness of using guns and such, and I'm lazy.... but they just dont know me.

 One day I was sitting at a table in a public place with a friend of mine, she was talking to me, but I had an intent stare over her shoulder... she look at me like, "what the heck are you looking at, and give me your attention." 

That is when I slowly pushed myself away from the table and down close to the ground, I creeped out onto the grass area, and close to some bushes.... then she saw the rabbits...   

I creeped closer and closer.. trying to contrain my breath and make no sounds, staying slightly behind the bushes so I wasnt too in view.  When I was about two arms lengths away I shifted my weight onto the balls of my feet, waited patiently for them to get easy with my presence, shifted forward veeeery slowly.

WOOSH!! 

With one quick move I found out that not only am I a lot slower than a jaguar, but I am also a lot bigger than a fox.  Which means I didnt fit under the bushes that well, and also didnt get close to grabbing the rabbits. 

Ow, darn.  But I still tried. 

The one thing I did get out of it, is that friend now understands what hunting means to me.

I would hunt with those sticky slap hands if that was a requirement.
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Offline rebAL

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2007, 01:54:06 PM »
Why NOT hunt?  That is the question.  God gave game animals for us to have dominion over and use for food as a renewable resource.  We don't force people to hunt;  Why do they try to force us not to hunt?  Not only do we get to harvest free & nutricious meat, but at the same time we help control game numbers and keep the herd healthy.  It's stupid not to hunt!

Offline dakotashooter2

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2007, 09:57:56 AM »
They don't understand that it is not the killing it is the hunt. The kill is the anti-climax. Computer games cannot even come close to the challenge of pursuit offered by live game. It causes us not just to exist but to live. It causes us to appreciate and understand nature and it's ways. It helps to calm and sooth our minds from the pressures of humanity. It brings our lives down to a simpler state.

Aw heck. Plain and simple. They are to STUPID to understand.
Just another worthless opinion!!

Offline jamaldog87

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Re: THE HUNTING DEBATE”
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2007, 11:49:30 AM »
i saw saw2 and Dawn Of The Dead and people were telling me that this movie had gore. I saw it and i have seen more gore cleaning game then in any movie. Have you ever seen a coon shot with a 72cal round ball to the head? Now that gore!!!
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