Author Topic: A Warning about Wheel Weights! (Read 2097 times)

S.S. · « **on:** May 21, 2003, 04:01:20 AM »

Be careful using wheel weights as a source of lead!
Many of them now are more alloy than lead!
It is too hard and will damage your barrel!
I thought that the decrease in accuracy was due
to leading in the grooves, but it was due to the fact
that I now have a virtual smoothbore due to the
bullets stripping the lands away!
I ruined a perfectly good H&R .45 cal Huntsman!

(it only took about 75 rounds of the "HARD" R.E.A.L. Bullets to do it!)

Well, Maybe I'll get some Rabbit hunting done this fall with my new
" shotgun "

mamaflinter · « **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2003, 05:24:45 AM »

Yes this is true. I'm sorry you learned the hard way the only time you should use wheel weight lead is if you are shooting blackpowder cartridge rifles. In these rifles, they want harder lead to keep from leading the bore as quickly.

The Powder Keg · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2003, 10:44:25 AM »

Quote from: mamaflinter

Yes this is true. I'm sorry you learned the hard way the only time you should use wheel weight lead is if you are shooting blackpowder cartridge rifles. In these rifles, they want harder lead to keep from leading the bore as quickly.

Wheel weights also make great smoothbore round balls, I shoot them all the time.

mamaflinter · « **Reply #3 on:** May 22, 2003, 12:17:10 AM »

I've never heard of anyone using hardened lead in smoothbores. I will also admit I'm not as knowledgeable about them either. No ill effects on your smoothbore?

The Powder Keg · « **Reply #4 on:** May 22, 2003, 11:44:35 AM »

I have run into several shooters on various lists that have been using wheel weight lead in smoothbores for a long time and they have good results. I have been using it for the last couple of years and have not noticed any problems with the barrel. Personally I had not heard of anyone blaming damage to a rifled barrel on hard lead but most folks don't use it in rifled muzzleloaders.

mamaflinter · « **Reply #5 on:** May 23, 2003, 12:15:32 AM »

Usually the problem with using hard lead is that they don't shrink enough and they are overbore and the shooters have difficulty in seating them.

The Powder Keg · « **Reply #6 on:** May 23, 2003, 08:52:19 AM »

Quote from: mamaflinter

Usually the problem with using hard lead is that they don't shrink enough and they are overbore and the shooters have difficulty in seating them.

The size may vary a little from a pure lead ball but definately not over bore size when you start out with a mold that is .005" to .010" under bore size in the first place. You may have to adjust your patch thickness but that is no big deal. If you have a smoothbore try some wheel weight lead. I make contacts at 15 GM Dealerships and have a great supply of lead for my smoothbores!

daddywpb · « **Reply #7 on:** May 23, 2003, 10:37:49 AM »

How can lead bullets, no matter how hard they are, strip lands out of a steel barrel?

savageT · « **Reply #8 on:** May 23, 2003, 10:40:48 AM »

Quote from: daddywpb

How can lead bullets, no matter how hard they are, strip lands out of a steel barrel?

I had the same question///Answer:....by using a very aggresive cleaning technique to rid the barrel of lead deposits.

Jim

rickyp · « **Reply #9 on:** May 23, 2003, 03:22:52 PM »

You should be ok using W.W. with sabots and even round balls. As long as the bullet doesnt come in contact with the bore. The only disadvantage with using W.W with round balls is that they will not expand as well as pure lead will when hitting soft tissue such as a deer.

clodbuster · « **Reply #10 on:** May 24, 2003, 06:36:10 AM »

You didn't say if you or someone else cast the damaging bullets, but I suspect there was grit of some kind that wasn't fluxed out of the alloy before casting. Wheel weights, while they are slightly harder than pure lead, are waaay softer than any steel barrel. I have shot thousands of bullets made from w.w. and alloys similar to w.w. with no adverse effects. I like to mix a 1 to 1 ratio of w.w. and pure lead for maxi and minibullets for BP. Leading of the barrel can take place with pure lead or alloys. It depends of the velocity and what you have protecting the bullet base during firing. Leading is a problem that affects accuracy and is a pain in arse to remove but is a soluble situation.

kevin · « **Reply #11 on:** May 24, 2003, 04:07:39 PM »

You are exactly right cloduster, i myself have never had any poblems either, as for smoothbores using hardcast all mine shoot decent out to 70 or so yards but the big difference is using soft lead in smooth bores is the patch will grip the ball better and forms a tighter gas seal, this is great for target shooters , but for most of us we just want to blast and have a good time at the range, and it is the same princible for rifled guns, tight
patch and ball combination excellent accuracy, depending on rate of twist, but that in itsself is another story, anther thing is useing hard cast in civil war guns is ok, but again accuracy also suffers if you target shoot, but for hunting hardcast will perform but bullet grouping is extreame, i'ev tried it all in my guns and all i can say is for best accuracy use soft lead for, plinking use wheel weights, and always have fun and be safe,
kevin

bfoster · « **Reply #12 on:** May 26, 2003, 09:21:11 AM »

To make relatively hard bullets easy to load do just what the old timers did: swage rifling groves into your hard bullets first! You can either use a section of a scrap barrel, or you can make (or have made) dies to do this first. I've shot many, many hollow pointed, pre rifled bullets cast from Lyman #515141 out of my front loaders. Without sizing and pre rifling these have to be started with a mallet, not a practice conducive to accuracy.

Bob

waksupi · « **Reply #13 on:** June 05, 2003, 06:14:44 PM »

I've shot WW's for about thirty years in ML's with no problem, although I will only put a patched round ball in any of my ML rifles or smoothbores.
I have one bolt action rifle that now has over eight thousand rounds down the tube at 2200 fps or so, with no wear at all. I suspect poor cleaning technique.

roberthonike · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2003, 12:30:51 PM »

I once saw a Colt Navy repro that seemed to be a smooth bore. Seems the guy did not use lube over balls. We plugged that one, filled the bore with mercury over night. I can't imagine rifleing being smoothed out of quality barrel with any lead alloy. I'll bet grooves are just filled up with lead. Bob

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #15 on:** July 09, 2003, 02:22:09 PM »

Could the problem be not that the lands are worn away, but that the grooves are filled with lead?

-Kees-

roberthonike · « **Reply #16 on:** July 09, 2003, 08:51:37 PM »

I'm lucky to have enough mercury to fill a rifle bore. If I had to tackle a big time lead plated bore without it, I'd use one of the reverse electrolysis set ups.
you could wear out bore brushes for days to get it out. Solvents have got to get between lead and steel to work and if it is solid lead this can't happen. Bob

rickyp · « **Reply #17 on:** July 10, 2003, 03:59:27 AM »

be verry very careful with the mercury it is very toxic and just a few drops will poison a very large water supply

roberthonike · « **Reply #18 on:** July 10, 2003, 04:13:55 AM »

I know. Barrel and all gets put in plastic 55 gal drum. Fill bore part way, slowly lower wooden rod into bore to displace mercury and raise level. It sure does eat lead. It is something to be careful about but not as risky as making own powder at 8 years old, which is how I got started. Still have normal assortment of organs and appendages. Well, maybe not normal but the count is right. Some day I'll tell you about makeing fulminating compounds at 9 years old. Encyclopedias had more good stuff way back then. Drug stores had all sorts of good stuff too.

savageT · « **Reply #19 on:** July 10, 2003, 04:32:25 AM »

My two cents worth..........
Build an electronic de-plating rod and get the lead out!
http://home.sprynet.com/~frfrog/homemade.htm

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #20 on:** July 15, 2003, 07:26:58 AM »

Here's a simple test question. After 75 shots, are the bullets now easier to ram down? Or about the same, maybe even more difficult?

If you truly eroded the lands, the bullets should now almost fall down the bore.

If you just leaded the grooves, then the bullets will remain difficult to ram home. If not they should be even more difficult.

If the bullets start tight, but somewhere near the breech, they drop real easily, then you may have gas cutting. Since the hard lead doesn't obturate as well, the high pressure gases run between the bullet and the bore. Supposedly this can erode the bore.

Now, I highly doubt that even hard lead can erode the steel. But it also doesn't make sense that gases could do it either.

Does anyone know of the hardness of BP fouling? If it's dry, I could imagine it providing the necessary grit to erode steel. I don't know.

roberthonike · « **Reply #21 on:** July 15, 2003, 12:52:23 PM »

The barrel I mentioned earlier was so evenly coated that it appeared to be a very shiny smooth bore about .32 in a .36 barrel. The colt repro was actually loose from overpressure. It took some smithing to tighten it up. I have seen so many barrels with thousands of rounds through them still in good shape. I don't know how you would wipe out rifleing unless every projectile was rolled in abrasive. There is the question of how would you continue to get bullets through the fouling without a heck of a lot of force. By the same token you would sure notice if they just dropped in. I think we might not know all the details to figure this one out.

waksupi · « **Reply #22 on:** July 15, 2003, 12:59:53 PM »

Something you might want to try. This is what people on the modern benchrest cast bullet circuit do to remove lead. This will usually only occur when trying a new bullet design, or pushing the velocity limits of a particular alloy. A properly fit and lubed bullet does not lead.

Get a bristle brush to fit your bore. Go to the grocery store, and get some Chore Boy copper pot scrubbers. Pull some strands from the pads, and wrap the brush with this. About a dozen passes will usually clean the worst bore leading.

Keep in mind, these are high dollar benchrest barrels this is being done to, and if it would harm them, it wouldn't be used!

Underclocked · « **Reply #23 on:** July 15, 2003, 05:38:23 PM »

Quote

How can lead bullets, no matter how hard they are, strip lands out of a steel barrel?

Not trying to be a wiseguy, but if one looks at the Grand Canyon a bit, the answer may come. If water can bore through a rock then relatively soft alloy can eat away hard steel. And there is little "soft" about some wheel weights.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #24 on:** July 16, 2003, 05:01:46 AM »

Underclocked,

No offense taken. But the Grand Canyon was carved by water carrying hard particles (sand). Basically it was sandblasted, except instead of high pressure air, the sand was carried by flowing water.

Which could explain why hard lead could erode a bore - not the lead but some abbrasive that rides on the lead. That's why I inquired about dry BP fouling.

Keep in mind also, the gun was smoothed out in 75 shots! Think about that for a minute. Put a gouge in some soft steel about 0.010 deep (roughly the depth of ML rifling). Run a file over it 75 times. I'll bet the gouge will still be there.

Underclocked · « **Reply #25 on:** July 16, 2003, 07:58:54 AM »

There must have been some pretty harsh and abrasive impurities in that lead.

But leave out the sand and the canyon would still be there, just not AS deep. :-)