alternating rounds in a 45?

[montveil]

I have been following the thread on self defense ammo.

I gather that  hp might expand too early if someone is wearing  a heavy coat while ball amm  230 may not furnish the knockdown that the hp will.

what are the pros and cons of loading the magazine alternating 230 ball with speer gold 230 hp ??

[canon6]

1st it is you pistol so do what you think is right,when I carried a 45 auto on duty I carried two HP's and then hardball,same theory different solution.As long as the two loads chosen shoot to a common point of aim  I can see no problems    Doug

[Mikey]

Let's see now.....after two world wars, a conflict in Korea, 10 years in S.E. Asia, Iraq x 2 and, numerous excursions everywhere around the world and the 45 acp 230 gn ball may not have the knockdown the hp will...........

Well, I'll  be danged.  Ya'll mean to tell me that every single time I used 45 ball on bad guys, or enemy combatants dressed in full combat gear and with (my) blood in their eyes, that someone elses brand spanking new holler-pointy load woulda done better.   Guess that means I might have been able to save about half my ammo.  What was I ever thinking?

Here's my recommendation:  If, for some incredible reason you do not feel that 45 acp 230 gn fmj - aka ball ammo - has the knockdown power you feel you should have in a 45 acp, then do not alternate bullets - just carry your hollow-points and feel better about yourself.  Mikey.

[KYsquirrelsniper]

For some reason, I've never been too thrilled with mixing rounds in the mag and with a 45 I'm not too worried about expansion, so if you're that worried, I'd just carry HPs and then carry a spare mag with FMJs. Personally, I carry my 45s for both personal protection and also when required for work, and I always carry 230gr FMJs. Never really felt a need for anything different . A 9mm would be a different story

[PaulS]

I don't suppose they would fire to the same point of aim...
That would be enough reason for me not to use them.

[coyotejoe]

Montveil, just carry the hollow points, 200 grain. Heavy clothing does not cause the hollowpoint to expand too early, rather, it may plug the hollow with a wad of soft cloth so that it does not expand at all. In that case it is no worse than the FMJ while in most cases it will be much better. The only downside to the hollowpoints, and the only reason to carry FMJs, is that many of the old clunker 1911s won't reliably feed anything but standard, mil spec FMJ.

[S.S.]

Don't hide your feelings Mikey.... Causes stress and isn't good for ya' 

I do however agree about the ball ammo in a .45 acp. Anyone who thinks it is not a man killer
has never used one in combat. Most of the time you can't convince them otherwise though.
Too many Evan Marshalls and Mas Ayoob stories I guess. The only problem I have with them is that they are hard to stop once fired. A good HP has less pass through penetration.

[Mikey]

S.S.  Yep, yer right.  It ain't good fer me.  But I just love the way this new programming inserts the emoticons for you, it is a pretty accurate 'read' and I always get a good laugh out of the way they show up. 

And, of course, you are correct again as always.  45 ball is hard to stop once it gets goin'.  I try and stay out of the way of those things................but smaller calibers like the 7.62x25mm might be the ticket if someone would make a newer style pistol for it.............. Ya think?  Mikey.

[S.S.]

The 7.62 Tok is indeed a formidable round.
I would love to see something like a Beretta Storm
or similar carbine chambered for it. Even A cheap little Hi-Point.

[Dusty Miller]

I've often wondered if the 230 gr. FMJ FP wasn't just the ticket.

[Mikey]

Dusty:  Mag Tech makes a 230 gn FMJ-SWC that I have lately been working up loads for.  So far I'm finding 6.5 of Unique works well with that bullet and gives me about 2.5" at 25 yds.  I haven't yet tried any WW231 but have found some VV powders and Blue Dot not to be accurate with that bullet while others work just as well as Unique. 

It's been a long winter and I have not yet been able to get back out to the range to re-test thest slugs but once I find a really accurate load for this bullet that puts it out at mil/spec or better it will be what I carry.  Mikey.

[Dusty Miller]

I'm no expert on bullet performance but it seems to me the FP would just about have to have more THUMP than a RN bullet. 

[Mikey]

Dusty:  when you look at what Elmer Keith and others have done to the shape of bullets to make them more effective you see that they took the old or original round nose design and basically made a semi-wadcutter out of it.  They flattened the nose and gave it a wide metplat, designed a sharp shoulder to help cut through and add tissue damage and, I believe added another grease groove to enhance lubrication in hardcast bullets to avoid leading.  I understand that one of the best things to ever happen to the 38 Special was the 158 gn semi-wadcutter - added just that much more 'thump', as you say.  The swc is an improvement in effectiveness over the round nose design.

The Mag Tech 230 gn fmj-swc is just that, a full metal jacketed semi-wadcutter.  For some reason (don't care why, really but I will take it) the shoulder seems to have a sharp edge to it - I think that is just part of the forming process but it cuts a very square hole in the target, just like a wadcutter target slug, and it weighs the full 230 gn; at 875'/sec or thereabouts, it indeed 'thumps' when it hits.  Mikey.

[coyotejoe]

I believe it was shown long ago that while the shoulder of the semi-wadcutter does indeed cut nice holes in paper it really has no effect in flesh because the flat nose has already blasted tissue aside before the shoulder can reach it. In other words, a round nose flat point has the same effect, as does a hollow point with the same wide nose. I would expect that a true, full wadcutter would be much better but of course the dearly beloved 1911 can't handle a true wadcutter and that is why the semi-wadcutter was developed for target shooters. The only reason to choose an FMJ over a hollowpoint for defence is where misguided regulations forbid hollowpoints.

[rockbilly]

Many years ago, as a competitive shooter in the military, we were taught that mixing ammo often changes the rhythm in battery and causes jams, stove pipes, etc.  I don't know how truthful this is, but I have seen guns perform well, and then start stove piping, or jamming with mixed batches of ammo.  When the shooter went back to one, or the other types of loads, the problem corrected itself.  Most often this occurs in rapid fire.

The instructor was so convincing it caused me to stick with one load in a magazine.