Maybe the truth will finally be told..

[ironglow]

   As the ballistic indicate, the 6.8 seems to be about the same as the 7.62X39..the armor that our troops now use will stop an AK at point-blank range...
   As far as the one to the head a .22LR at close range and easily the .223 at long range will suffice..

  THe key to defeating any armor the enemy may be wearing, is small diameter FMJ at high speed.

  In any case, the Stoner design must be good, since they created the new round with the M15/M16 platform in mind..

  That being said, I don't own a "military style" rifle..nothing against them..just had enough of them during my time in the military..LOL

[SHOOTALL]

my interest in a 6.8 is for hunting , in a ruger ranch rifle , i have a 7.62x39 and a 223 . the new style and find them quite a bit more accurate than the old ones ! we cannot hunt deer with a 223 so i use the 7.62x39 , as only a 5 round mag. is aval. from ruger and no 8 or 10 rounders i have tried worked 100% i was hoping that maybe a ruger 10 rounder would work !
Note also our own 223 won't pass thru our vest either . I can't help but wonder why they are reassuring the M-14 to troops in the desert if the m-4 is such a great long range weapon ? and shotguns to entry teams if it is such a great entry weapon !
WE all know this debate is little more than a chev./ford deal ! But the M-14 and shot gun are very speical weapons in todays world ! It would be crazy to switch in war time anyway but to add range and power to our weapon issued to the standard troops might not be a bad thing ! Lets face facts no one weapon is going to be everything to every one , an option on the AR may be a good idea !

[ironglow]

  Shootall;

  The .223 may very well not penetrate OUR vests very well, that's why I specified any vest the enemy may be wearing.
 
  Yes; that new round may well be a good round for deer..especially in with a soft point, hunting bullet .
 
  Yes, the .308 round is a better long range cartridge..but logistics comes into play..a trooper can carry twice as many .223 rounds into combat for the same weight penalty.

  My grandson and the Marines he serves with, when doing entries have a choice..223 or shotgun (Mossy 500)..I suppose they have to decide if they want the shotgun coverage or the rapid fire capability..dunno. Will talk with him again when he comes home from Al Anbar late this year.
   The guys don't care for the Beretta 9mm (with FMJ ammo) .."not a stopper" they say.
 
   One thing that comes back by the troops when they return that seems to be "overlooked" by the major media...forget that "holy man" talk...many of these enemy combatants smoke some kind of "funny stuff" as a regular practice..

 

[SHOOTALL]

Ironglow , I have both employees and Friends who have been over , and what you say is right ! I had a friend take a 300 win mag. sendero over with him , his rank and job allowed that !
Didn't think such a perfect people would need drugs ( YEA RIGHT ) !
When hunting i have gone to my stand with one type weapon only to wish i had another , it most likely happens in war also !
your grandson ( thank him for his service ) will most likely be able to share  much with you as to what did and did not work !
i was told the shot gun was good at taking hinges and locks off doors for entry , and the M-14 for long range work around a base or camp , which goes along with your thoughts !

[Dee]

Ironglow , I have both employees and Friends who have been over , and what you say is right ! I had a friend take a 300 win mag. sendero over with him , his rank and job allowed that !
Didn't think such a perfect people would need drugs ( YEA RIGHT ) !
When hunting i have gone to my stand with one type weapon only to wish i had another , it most likely happens in war also !
your grandson ( thank him for his service ) will most likely be able to share  much with you as to what did and did not work !
i was told the shot gun was good at taking hinges and locks off doors for entry , and the M-14 for long range work around a base or camp , which goes along with your thoughts !

This is my understanding of the use of these weapons. My son, whom is fighting house to house was issued a Mossberg 500 shotgun for just the activity you described. I am personally VERY familiar with this technique, as I trained others in the use of avon loads, for breaching doors and have used them myself.

[SHOOTALL]

 I hope we are supplying our troops the very best , I would rather see our troops have the best and congress meet in a room with card tables if it comes down to that !
And Dee I'm starting to warm to 163 & 168 gr. 223 ! want to try some !

[Dee]

Let's see here. 163 & 168 grain in 223. What would the velocity be here around 150fps, and the OAL would be something to ponder in that short action. That would be interesting alright, and odd looking also.

[SHOOTALL]

Sorry drop the 1

[SHOOTALL]

or we could call the 223 - 168 gr. the toothpick round !

[Dee]

or we could call the 223 - 168 gr. the toothpick round !

Now we have possibility there