Author Topic: Who among us are not NRA Members...and why? (Read 21955 times)

Dee · « **Reply #180 on:** July 13, 2007, 07:47:50 AM »

Land Owner I think what all this boils down to is Ford vs Chevy. ALL organizations have short comings no doubt, but in reality the NRA like ANY large organization that has been around awhile suffers from a certain amount of corruption from within. They like MANY other organizations have for the most part, lost touch with the people that support it. Just like the government has. This loss of touch, is why such organizations were formed in the first place, as the government has STOPPED LISTENING TO THE PEOPLE, and taken the "WE KNOW WHAT'S GOOD FOR YOU BETTER THAN YOU" view of our station in life. Many here view the NRA, in exactly the same light. The "HIARCHY" from within the NRA, basically remains the same. Sure they elect new presidents and such, but so does the government, and we are still having to watch them, as they cannot be trusted with our RTBA.
I have a couple of uncles that believe the government DOES know best, and ANYONE who talks in the negative about the government are TRAITORS.
That is basically what has been implied by some NRA members here. We view the NRA as BECOMING or has BECAME much like our government, and has stopped listening and protecting our RTBA, by COMPROMISING. When we voice this opinion, some NRA members here, like my two uncles, seem to be shouting TRAITOR, and we are not. I think that is what the riff here is about. I personally am not AGAINST the MEMBERSHIP, I just don't trust the LEADERSHIP. There are things that have been said here by some members, that I don't believe would have been said face to face, and if said, only once. If we are to unite, and we should, we need to be civil to one another REGARDLESS of our stand on the NRA, or any other organization. In the end we very well have to take an individual stand. I have said as much, and was blasted UN-NECCESSARILY by an NRA member, and basically called a coward. That remark was not only UN-NECESSARY, but would not have been tolerated in a face to face confrontation. Let us at least be civil in our disagreement.

Graybeard · « **Reply #181 on:** July 13, 2007, 07:48:10 AM »

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Some people just don't like confrontation. As for me, I welcome it.

Ya know I've noticed that.

And in case you dozed thru and failed to notice I'm not afraid of it either.

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There are over 21,000 members at Graybeard and only 15 to 20 have posted in this thread, so I don't see a overwhelming support for your cause.

OK but from the other side even fewer have supported the NRA of those 21,000+ members so that makes neither side of the argument more or less valid.

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So that I have this straight, if I don't stick to the topic, my posts have no merit and I can't debate with the guys that see things differently than I do? I can't challenge there post as you have mine?

Since when has any thread on this or any other site stuck to the topic completely if it went past a dozen posts?

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Why do I feel like a taxidermist trying to sell furs on a PETA site.

Beats the heck outta me, why?

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GB: The CCRKBA does not seem to be very active. Correct me if I am wrong. Many of the posted Releases and most of their News is dated earlier than 12/2002. Nowhere on their site, that I have found, do they discuss their Mission Statement or purpose. Who are they? What do they do? It is only by inference and reading a laundry list of Press Releases that "research" on CCRKBA can be performed, or so it appears. Their Web Site is not too inviting and the FIRST THING on their site is JOIN [US].

I used to be a dues paying member and got lots of info from them and annual (I think) dues notices but haven't heard much from them lately so I don't really know what's going on with them these days. They may no longer be active, dunno.

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I still have not found TDC but I continue to look.

So far I've not even figured out what those initials stand for. Most likely when told I'll slap my head and say "oh yeah them" but for whatever reason it just don't ring any bells for me.

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I am personally convinced the single biggest problem with the NRA is the man leading it. Should he be fired and replaced with a real shore nuff honest pro gun no compromise manager I'd likely jump back on their bandwagon and again support the NRA. But with him at the helm from my perspective they are doing more harm than good. I cannot and WILL NOT support the NRA as a pro gun lobby group so long as LaPierre is in charge. He is as obnoxious to me as cooper was and I've long stated my feelings on him.

Understand that it is NOT the organization called the NRA I am against it is the man leading it at this point in history and his policies and practices which in my opinion make it both ineffective as a pro gun lobby and a negative instrument for preserving the Consitutional Rights of US Citizens.

Land_Owner · « **Reply #182 on:** July 13, 2007, 08:37:25 AM »

Quote from: Dee on July 13, 2007, 07:47:50 AM

I think what all this boils down to is Ford vs Chevy.

...and I agree.

Quote from: Graybeard on July 13, 2007, 07:48:10 AM

Understand that it is NOT the organization called the NRA I am against...

...understood.

The true purpose of this post was not intended to be confrontational.

This about sums up how "close to the Enemy" our RKBA PAC's should get (sorry it was too good not to post here):

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A U.S. Marine squad was marching north of Faluijiah when they came upon an Iraqi terrorist, badly injured and unconscious.

On the opposite side of the road was an American Marine in a similar but less serious state.

The Marine was conscious and alert and as first aid was given to both men, the squad leader asked the injured Marine what had happened.

The Marine reported, "I was heavily armed and moving north along the highway here, and coming south was a heavily armed insurgent.
We saw each other and both took cover in the ditches along the road.

"I yelled to him that Saddam Hussein is a miserable, lowlife scum bag.

He yelled back that Ted Kennedy is a good-for-nothing, fat, left wing liberal drunk."

"So I said that Osama Bin Ladin dresses and acts like a mean-spirited lesbian!

He retaliated by yelling, Oh yeah? Well, so does Hillary Clinton!"

"And, there we were, in the middle of the road, shaking hands, when a truck hit us"

NONYA · « **Reply #183 on:** July 13, 2007, 10:33:18 AM »

HA!Good 1!None of them are going to be perfect for everyone but Im positive the NRA isnt for me,if they ever went back to theirroots and an organization that is unwilling to negotiate with the antis I would be more than happy to support them.

If I could sell memberships to the -=TDC=- we would have 21,331 members in no time!

myronman3 · « **Reply #184 on:** July 13, 2007, 10:35:36 AM »

yeah, marines making nice with enemies of the u.s.a.; right. nothing personal, but i dont find that funny. in fact, i think the premise of it is insulting to the corp

tdc= totally done club

another reason i am outwardly anti nra is that where i live, they actually endorsed an openly anti-gunner named ron kind, who is currently a congressman from wisconsin.

la pierre is a total snake, i cant even stand to look at his picture.

Dee · « **Reply #185 on:** July 13, 2007, 11:09:49 AM »

Land Owner, I DO find it funny. It is a joke and should be taken as such. My son is a Sgt. with the 82nd Airborne in Baghdad at the present and has three combat tours at the age of 23. 1 in Afganistan, and 2 in Iraq. He is constantly making jokes about the Marines (whom he has much respect for) and they (the Marines) in turn make jokes to him about the equally famous 82nd Airborne. As you might imagine, I support the MILITARY. My oldest is 20% disabled at age 35, as he also was airborne, though not the 82nd (173rd possibley). I also defended the rights of Americans for 20 years as a police officer, and I have an elderly uncle whom has 3 bronze stars and 2 purple hearts from WWII. It was a funny, in a not so often funny world.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #186 on:** July 13, 2007, 11:48:57 AM »

Hey, I was in the Corp when the boats were wood and the men were steel, etc, etc and I thought the joke was funny as h**L. One of the first jokes along those lines I saw was of a marine gunner sitting in a bar drinking with a Nip. The marine is saying to his just arriving buddy, "hey, meet Agasawa. He and I were on Iwo."

Land_Owner · « **Reply #187 on:** July 13, 2007, 02:46:57 PM »

myronman3...it was not intended to offend.

Like Dee, my son Ben is on his 3rd combat tour in Iraq at 23 y.o. (interesting coincidence #1 and #2). Check it out in GB Forum "Today's Important News". Ben was and will always be a U.S. Marine (1st enlistment).

Like Dee's son, Ben is now (2nd enlistment) an E5 in the Army's 82nd Airborne Division out of Ft. Bragg, NC (interesting coincidence #3).

Ben is the Battalion's SP at Camp Addar (somewhere in the Iraqi Southern Province I believe). He hasn't been there long and his wife is expecting their 2nd child any day now. His Battalion Lt. Col. was attempting to get him shipped Stateside for 3 days as his attitude and motivation have been exemplary and he was deployed in Iraq during the birth of his first son. I suspect that he has not returned or he would have called.

I was U.S. Coast Guard from '74 to '78.

Does any of this relate to the topic, NO, but if the Reader doesn't mind, I don't either.

NONYA · « **Reply #188 on:** July 13, 2007, 10:42:22 PM »

Congrats to you guys with sons fighting in foreign lands,Id be proud as hell to have a son willing to give all for his country,Semper Fi,Hooooooah!

weasel · « **Reply #189 on:** July 14, 2007, 08:18:14 PM »

Well, since the thread is headed this direction, I'll chip in. My youngest finished his Iraq tour in one piece, thank God. Then he made Sgt, was a great honor to be there. The Marines have a tradition of wacking the new "promotees" on the pins, the studs dig into the collarbones, he was leaving almost enough blood for me to trail him. We sure worried about him, hes the type who'd risk his life for a puppy, much less a comrade.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #190 on:** July 15, 2007, 06:26:48 AM »

Quote from: Land_Owner on July 13, 2007, 02:46:57 PM

myronman3...it was not intended to offend.

Like Dee, my son Ben is on his 3rd combat tour in Iraq at 23 y.o. (interesting coincidence #1 and #2). Check it out in GB Forum "Today's Important News". Ben was and will always be a U.S. Marine (1st enlistment).

Like Dee's son, Ben is now (2nd enlistment) an E5 in the Army's 82nd Airborne Division out of Ft. Bragg, NC (interesting coincidence #3).

Ben is the Battalion's SP at Camp Adair (somewhere in the Iraqi Southern Province I believe). He hasn't been there long and his wife is expecting their 2nd child any day now. His Battalion Lt. Col. was attempting to get him shipped Stateside for 3 days as his attitude and motivation have been exemplary and he was deployed in Iraq during the birth of his first son. I suspect that he has not returned or he would have called.

I was U.S. Coast Guard from '74 to '78.

Does any of this relate to the topic, NO, but if the Reader doesn't mind, I don't either.

Land_Owner, my son did 18 months in Iraq, he made it back 3 months ago. TG

myronman3 · « **Reply #191 on:** July 16, 2007, 04:02:36 AM »

i dunno. as a former soldier, any insinuation that the enemy who is hated and i was out actively trying to kill, had any chance of becoming my friend, would insult me.

though i will say, i wasnt trying to blast landowner for the joke, just stating that from my point of view i dont see it as funny. as far as my son's service goes, i hope they dont have to. i want this mess cleaned up before then, but i dont think it is going to be. and yes, i am a vetern of one of the more elite special ops units out there.

but i digress, i still dont like the nra.....lol

billy_56081 · « **Reply #192 on:** July 16, 2007, 01:27:47 PM »

A simple question for those who are no longer NRA members because you did not agree with the direction the NRA was going.

Do you have more influence over the direction of the NRA as a member or non-member?

Dee · « **Reply #193 on:** July 16, 2007, 01:51:07 PM »

Although small, I have MORE INFLUENCE, as I can honestly say the direction they are going is not in any way aided by my money. As a member, they don't listen, and as a non-member they don't listen, but have less money to not listen on.

Graybeard · « **Reply #194 on:** July 16, 2007, 05:43:54 PM »

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Do you have more influence over the direction of the NRA as a member or non-member?

Neither actually. Altho I am still a member having become a life member some time back in the '70s as best as I can recall I'll still respond. They listen not one whit to members or non members so being on the inside is of no value in shaping their attitudes as I've found out on a LOT of occasions when I've corresponded with them. If you think you about to anything to them other than a source of revenue when they send out requests to you then try to contact them and influence them in any way on any topic. You'll be in for a rude awakening.

If every single one of the 21,000+ members of this site were NRA members and if all were of one mind on some needed change in NRA direction and if all 21,000 contacted them with one voice that voice would STILL GO UNHEARD at NRA HQ. The members DO NOT MATTER to the folks in charge.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #195 on:** July 17, 2007, 01:25:58 AM »

I doubt if you could get 21,000 people here at Graybeard to agree on anything or even join in on one cause. Hell look how many time there is heated discussions on bullets, rifles, and stupid stuff. The people here at Graybeard and any other site can't see eye to eye on anything. How in the world do you think that could unite on a pro-gun issue.

This are 21,000 plus individuals here, that does not make a group of one. I don't trust 95% of the guys here to make a informed decision on anything.

But for you to say the the NRA would not listen to 21,000 of it's member is just plain ludicrous.

myronman3 · « **Reply #196 on:** July 17, 2007, 02:49:13 AM »

Quote from: Dee on July 16, 2007, 01:51:07 PM

Although small, I have MORE INFLUENCE, as I can honestly say the direction they are going is not in any way aided by my money. As a member, they don't listen, and as a non-member they don't listen, but have less money to not listen on.

that says it all.

myronman3 · « **Reply #197 on:** July 17, 2007, 03:17:28 AM »

Quote from: Redhawk1 on July 17, 2007, 01:25:58 AM

I doubt if you could get 21,000 people here at Graybeard to agree on anything or even join in on one cause. Hell look how many time there is heated discussions on bullets, rifles, and stupid stuff. The people here at Graybeard and any other site can't see eye to eye on anything. How in the world do you think that could unite on a pro-gun issue.

that isnt his point. his point was that "IF" 21000 members of the nra as a group tried to influence the leaders of the nra, the nra would ignore them anyway. just like you ignore our perspective, i see why you are so pro nra.

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...I don't trust 95% of the guys here to make a informed decision on anything...

just because someone doesnt see it your way doesnt mean they are wrong; or that they are the one that is uninformed.

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...for you to say the the NRA would not listen to 21,000 of it's member is just plain ludicrous.

based on what? i say that for you to imply that they would listen to their members is not only ludicrous, but misleading as well.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #198 on:** July 17, 2007, 06:12:39 AM »

I don't care if you are a butcher, a baker, a candle stick maker, a politician, a lobbyist, or whatever, to ignore 21,000 unified voices is to write your obituary. Unless, of course, 210,000 unified voices speak the other way. This guy, LaPierre, wasn't he "elected"? In an open election? Do you think he got a majority by blowing away 21,000 unified votes at a time?
I'm not getting into the NRA thing again, its dragged on too long, but the demographics you folks are arguing about just don't make sense.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #199 on:** July 17, 2007, 06:43:30 AM »

Quote from: myronman3 on July 17, 2007, 03:17:28 AM

Quote from: Redhawk1 on July 17, 2007, 01:25:58 AM
I doubt if you could get 21,000 people here at Graybeard to agree on anything or even join in on one cause. Hell look how many time there is heated discussions on bullets, rifles, and stupid stuff. The people here at Graybeard and any other site can't see eye to eye on anything. How in the world do you think that could unite on a pro-gun issue.
that isnt his point. his point was that "IF" 21000 members of the nra as a group tried to influence the leaders of the nra, the nra would ignore them anyway. just like you ignore our perspective, i see why you are so pro nra.

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...I don't trust 95% of the guys here to make a informed decision on anything...

just because someone doesnt see it your way doesnt mean they are wrong; or that they are the one that is uninformed.

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...for you to say the the NRA would not listen to 21,000 of it's member is just plain ludicrous.

based on what? i say that for you to imply that they would listen to their members is not only ludicrous, but misleading as well.

myronman3, I think Graybeard can answer for himself, All I heard from you is Bla Bal Bal Bal Bal...... But thanks for trying.

)

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #200 on:** July 17, 2007, 06:47:49 AM »

Quote from: beemanbeme on July 17, 2007, 06:12:39 AM

I don't care if you are a butcher, a baker, a candle stick maker, a politician, a lobbyist, or whatever, to ignore 21,000 unified voices is to write your obituary. Unless, of course, 210,000 unified voices speak the other way. This guy, LaPierre, wasn't he "elected"? In an open election? Do you think he got a majority by blowing away 21,000 unified votes at a time?
I'm not getting into the NRA thing again, its dragged on too long, but the demographics you folks are arguing about just don't make sense.

Thank you beemanbeme, someone that understands, what a blessing. There is no way any group can ignore 21,000 members that speek as one.
You are right also that this has go on long enough, but what else are we going to discuss that has more importance?

myronman3 · « **Reply #201 on:** July 17, 2007, 08:33:50 AM »

Quote from: Redhawk1 on July 17, 2007, 06:43:30 AM

myronman3, I think Graybeard can answer for himself, All I heard from you is Bla Bal Bal Bal Bal...... But thanks for trying. )

yeah, right. i know your blood is boiling because someone out there isnt subscribing to the same dribble that you are; and doesnt fall for the silly tactics the nra and people like you try to use to get others to follow the "would-be leader".

i really think it is laughable that pro nra folks ask the question, and then when they get an answer they dont like (and well thought out arguements to support the position), they try to marginalize the opposing view by dismissing those who dissent as "a few who have their heads in the sand". keep sending la pierre your money; he loves mindless lackeys who keep his pockets lined. the only one laughing harder than me is la pierre.
and as far as this having gone on long enough, i dont think so. you say that because it sheds light on the subject in a way you dont like. i am on to that too.
anyone who is afraid to debate something openly has something big to hide. what are you afraid of??? lol

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #202 on:** July 17, 2007, 09:02:54 AM »

myronman3, there is nothing to hide, it is all in the open. Go to the NRA site. Afraid of a debate, I welcome it, but you guys are not debating but wining and complaining. Big difference. But don't flatter yourself, you could not get my blood boiling on your best day. You just don't know how many times I sit here and laugh at all the posts. I find it amusing that so many can be so uninformed... LOL LOL...

But one thing you all have not done is, told us what the NRA has done good for gun owners, you just focus on the negative. The NRA has done more for gun owners than you could list here. Like I said many time before, I don't agree 100% with everything the NRA does, but I focus on all the good it has done. PLEASE TELL ME, WHO ELSE IS DOING THAT MUCH?

? Care to answer that.

NONYA · « **Reply #203 on:** July 17, 2007, 09:50:34 AM »

Myro you should really apply to the -=TDC=-,it makes the GBO experience SO much better!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #204 on:** July 17, 2007, 10:02:45 AM »

NONYA, even though myronman3 and myself don't see eye to eye on this matter, I think he is to smart for that club. Now that is funny. LOL

Graybeard · « **Reply #205 on:** July 17, 2007, 10:34:28 AM »

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This guy, LaPierre, wasn't he "elected"? In an open election? Do you think he got a majority by blowing away 21,000 unified votes at a time?

NO. He is the executive VP of the organization which is NOT an elective office but an appointment. He serves in that capacity basically at the pleasure of the NRA President. The Board can vote to fire him BUT if the President wishes they can just as can the President of the US veto that vote and over turn it. That has already happened once. The Board fired him and Marion Hammer (who by the way was drawing $100,000 per year from an NRA club in FL who was in turn getting a $100,000 donation from the NRA provided by who else? LaPierre) vetoed that vote and retained him.

After that fiasco the next in line to be President was then ousted by the Hammer/Lapierre cartel so he was no longer in line to be President. The specific how of that little coup I never fully understood. That man was Neal Knox who would have agreed to fire LaPierre in a New York minute. Had Knox been allowed his turn as President LaPierre would be but a bad foot note in history and the NRA might actually be what you pro NRA'ers want it to be so desperately. Dunno who would be Executive VP these days had that happened but it would NOT be LaPierre.

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I find it amusing that so many can be so uninformed... LOL LOL...

As do I and it's truly sad when a bit of investigative efforts could inform you.

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But one thing you all have not done is, told us what the NRA has done good for gun owners, you just focus on the negative. The NRA has done more for gun owners than you could list here. Like I said many time before, I don't agree 100% with everything the NRA does, but I focus on all the good it has done. PLEASE TELL ME, WHO ELSE IS DOING THAT MUCH?? Care to answer that.

It's not so much what they have done FOR gun owners but rather what they have done TO gun owners. They have agreed with every single anti gun bill that has passed Congress since LaPierre has taken over the organization I believe. Oh they might have missed one some where along the line but if so it was likely when he was out of town partying somewhere and just missed it. Had the NRA never even existed there would be fewer anti gun laws in this country today. Of that I have no personal doubt even tho it is an unprovable comment just as would the opposite of it saying that it is in error.

Again it is not the NRA at which I am aiming my comments but the current leadership which we sadly need to replace.

Do any of you actually understand HOW the NRA works?

Only the Board of Directors is elected by the voting membership which are all five year and longer members. Any member of Life member or above status and all who sign up for five year memberships become voting members. Each year there is a panel appointed by the Exec. VP to develop a list of names for the members to vote on for board members. ONLY pro LaPierre candidates are selected since after all he is in control of that panel they were appointed by him after all. The only other way a name can be added to the list to be voted on is by petition of the general membership and it takes a huge number of member signatures to nominate one. Each time a few a very few get listed that way.

The NRA publications are then used to push the election of those hand selected pro LaPierre candidates and it is made pretty clear who not to vote for which is anyone not on his list of chosen few. Once long ago when Neal Knox was still alive he and a few other prominate real Patriots put together lists of who is and who is NOT strong Second Amendment supporters and those got wide notice but never in the NRA publications unless they were able to buy ad space. The last few years they were refused that ad space.

So over time the pro LaPierre board members took charge and those pro Second Amendment folks got kicked out. Now they are so entrenched I'm not even sure another Cinnicinatti type campaign could remove them. Nope I fear the only thing that can or will turn around the NRA is when LaPierre's time comes and he passes on and someone else takes the helm and we can then hope they are truly supportive of the Second Amendment and a Patriot and not a money hungry huckster. If that happens in time the NRA might actually turn itself around and then who knows it might actually become what so many of you seem to think it is now but which it isn't.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #206 on:** July 17, 2007, 11:57:23 AM »

Graybeard I ask you and other here the same question. Do any of you actually understand HOW the NRA works?

The NRA is a political lobbing group, that is what our money goes for.
The NRA is a registered Political Action Committee (PAC) and the NRA-ILC is the active arm of lobbying gunowners rights to US and individual state legislators.
I think it is cut and dry, no hidden agenda there.

Name me one other group or company that could make OSHA back down as quick as the NRA did. They did it with the voice of one that is 3 Million plus strong.

I know a lot about the NRA, I am very informed and don't go through life with blinders on. I am not just a member or the NRA I understand how it works.

But to have people complain because the NRA asks for money to support the organization is crazy. Anyone that has any knowledge of how politics is run knows, it takes money.

pills · « **Reply #207 on:** July 17, 2007, 12:22:09 PM »

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Name me one other group or company that could make OSHA back down as quick as the NRA did. They did it with the voice of one that is 3 Million plus strong.

Wow the NRA did this? I sure didn't have anything to do with it. Neither did the countless other people who contacted OSHA. I don't recall OSHA asking people if they are NRA members either. Must be because the NRA just called them up and said don't and they said Oh sorry, didn't mean to offend.

Thank God for the NRA. I wouldn't be able to flush my toilet with out them.

Graybeard · « **Reply #208 on:** July 17, 2007, 12:29:00 PM »

The NRA DID NOT DO THAT the internet and sites like this did. Oh they'll take credit as they always do for everything good but refuse to accept the blame they so richly deserve when they do bad. Pretty much every organization associated with the gun industry NOT just the NRA was warning folks about this and sites like this NOT the NRA is what changed the course of that proposal. Deep down inside you KNOW that.

Yes I'm aware of the ILA and how it works. I was in at the ground level when it was started and donated a pile of money back in those days to it before LaPierre took over and ruined it. Yes I'm aware they cannot spend dues money for such purposes and must get separate funds for the PAC actions. Been thru it all as I said I was with them on it from Day One.

Why I waste my time explaining all this to you when your mind is made up I dunno. You will not do any research to see that what I'm telling you is correct and won't take it when spoon fed either.

NONYA · « **Reply #209 on:** July 17, 2007, 01:03:12 PM »

Its not a waste of time at all,there are many who dont have their head stuck so far up their a** that they will listen to the truth and make decisions based on more than the NRA propaganda machines rhetoric .Dont let the negativity of a few stop you from spreadin the truth,many of us are willing to learn from the guys who have the info,they will try to make us sound like idiots but they only show themselves for what they truly are,sheeple.

-=TDC=- Co-founder and proud to be a LIFE member!