Author Topic: Who among us are not NRA Members...and why? (Read 21948 times)

Dee · « **Reply #240 on:** July 18, 2007, 05:16:40 PM »

I understand completely.

Graybeard · « **Reply #241 on:** July 18, 2007, 05:38:08 PM »

While I can't disagree with Dukkillr's comments I have modified the post to read the way I think it should have been stated. Yes saying one thing and then doing just the opposite is I think an accurate discription of a hypocrit and yes TRUTH is an adequate defense against charges of both slander and liable and should also be an adequate defense in this case. The shoe really did fit in this case based on behavior on this thread.

Guys it would be just ducky and peachy keen if we could all stand together united against the enemy but that ain't gonna happen in this world in this life time and I think we all know that. We each are individuals and we all see things differently based on our own life experiences and situations. This isn't a situation of the text here being black and the background being white it's all shades of gray. What's right to you might not be what's right to me. That's life get over it.

Cole was in error in saying Billy is a hypocrit. That's not how we do it here even if it's true. What he should have said is that behavior is hypocritical and that is how I modified the comment to read. And so modified I happen to agree. As stated it was wrong as it can be considered name calling even if accurate in a particular case. It's all a matter of semantics true but one is stating fact and the other calling names. And we've had way too much of that here already.

If you really want this thread to continue then get back to behaving within the rules or I'll be forced to kill it.

Alex I've answered that question numerous times for you already and you chose to ignore. The NRA has the reputation (very undeservedly so in my opinion) of speaking for gun owners. This reputation has been granted it by the press and the antigun crowd in my opinion because it suits their purposes. They can then rail and lash out at the NRA and the NRA at them all the while both sides knowing that when it comes down to the bottom line the NRA will cave and agree and that because the media has hyped them as speaking for all gun owners (HINT: they don't speak for me and I'm a gun owner) then Congress tends to listen.

So bottom line when the other TRUE PRO GUN RIGHTS groups speak with one voice and the NRA with an opposite voice that eventually ends up being what the anti's wanted to hear in the first place Congress accepts the NRA's compromise of giving away our rights over the others standing for those rights. WHY? Because of folks like you pro NRA guys here continuing to tell them that the NRA represents you.

The NRA is therefore in my view THE ENEMY just as are the anti's, in the end they all agree and we lose rights.

Now if the name calling, personal attacks and just plain dump rhetoric doesn't end this thread will.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #242 on:** July 18, 2007, 06:09:46 PM »

I for one will be the first to admit that I did not know that there was so much discontent with the NRA. Still no one can refute the fact that it is the largest gun rights organization. If it is truly broken we need to fix it. Arguing and name calling in not going to do it. Action is.

Calling each other hypocrites or idiots is not going to fix it. No one person or one organization is going to stop the attacks on the second amendment. We all need to keep our arguments to ourselves and stand together. Being unified is what it will take.

If it's hypocritical to want unification against the enemies of the second amendment then I'll be the first to admit, I'm a HYPOCRITE.

Graybeard · « **Reply #243 on:** July 18, 2007, 06:20:22 PM »

Quote

I for one will be the first to admit that I did not know that there was so much discontent with the NRA. Still no one can refute the fact that it is the largest gun rights organization. If it is truly broken we need to fix it. Arguing and name calling in not going to do it. Action is.

Actually I do refute that claim. As I've said I do not consider the NRA to be a GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION and if you'll read their charter and by laws you will no longer yourself.

Quote

Calling each other hypocrites or idiots is not going to fix it. No one person or one organization is going to stop the attacks on the second amendment. We all need to keep our arguments to ourselves and stand together. Being unified is what it will take.

Would be nice but it's pie in the sky thinking if you believe it's gonna happen.

Quote

If it's hypocritical to want unification against the enemies of the second amendment then I'll be the first to admit, I'm a HYPOCRITE.

Calling for unity while saying things that divide is what makes one a hypocrite.

As I've said often it would be nice if we all could agree and unite but that just ain't gonna happen and to continue to preach it while saying and doing things that do just the opposite is not helping anyone. Just forget the others and do what YOU think is right for the cause. Maybe you'll be right and maybe you want but you have no one but yourself to please in that regard.

NONYA · « **Reply #244 on:** July 18, 2007, 06:54:20 PM »

All Im hearing from the NRA fanatics is"do it my way or your wrong","unite and do things the way i see fit or u are against us",one hypocritical statement after another mixed with insults and childish tattletales,you really think you are representing your beloved NRA with these posts?How long do you expect me to take the crap i was taking without responding?Where was "captian america"(dee) when i was being called an idiot?If you represent a cross section of NRA membership I feel sorry for the NRA.(even sorrier than i already feel for the org.)You will NEVER help your NRA by telling non members that they are the enemy,you cant use your scare tactics on people to boost membership in a failed organization.The thread asked why i wasnt a member and every person who has explained why has taken shot after shot for sharing,if the NRA is our only hope we have already lost the battle.

crow_feather · « **Reply #245 on:** July 18, 2007, 07:23:42 PM »

I am not a NRA member and this is why. I do not feel that all weapons need to be protected from the anti-gun legislators. There are some weapons that need to be prohibited. They have no useful purpose other than putting out a huge amount of inaccurate bullets. What purpose is there to shoot a hundred rounds in three seconds expecting to hit nothing? "It has to be right because those I support say it is" is for followers. And to blindly follow without first deciding for yourself what is right is to be no better than those who followed Hitler. I honestly think that the NRA would defend 105 Howitzers for civilians if it were possible to buy them and the rounds.

To say "if we let them take one gun, the anti-gun legislators will not stop" is ridiculous. They aren't going to stop no matter what we as gun owners do. If you say that "if we are divided, we will loose all", then everybody come to my way of thinking and we will not be divided. I will not blindly follow, and will not agree that all guns - no matter what - need to be protected by the NRA. I'm reminded of the gorillas in the Planet of the Apes movie when I think of the NRA. UGH! Guns are good guns are good guns are good guns are good................................

I have been a NRA member several times before. All I ever seemed to get from them are requests for more money. I felt bad that I couldn't help out as I am retired so I quit. The magazine wasn't that good anyway.

I realize my thoughts are not popular, especially here at Greybeard. Please do not call me names or ridicle me. You asked,
and I replied with how I feel.

C F

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #246 on:** July 19, 2007, 02:39:11 AM »

Quote from: NONYA on July 18, 2007, 06:54:20 PM

All Im hearing from the NRA fanatics is"do it my way or your wrong","unite and do things the way i see fit or u are against us",one hypocritical statement after another mixed with insults and childish tattletales,you really think you are representing your beloved NRA with these posts?How long do you expect me to take the crap i was taking without responding?Where was "captian america"(dee) when i was being called an idiot?If you represent a cross section of NRA membership I feel sorry for the NRA.(even sorrier than i already feel for the org.)You will NEVER help your NRA by telling non members that they are the enemy,you cant use your scare tactics on people to boost membership in a failed organization.The thread asked why i wasnt a member and every person who has explained why has taken shot after shot for sharing,if the NRA is our only hope we have already lost the battle.

NONYA, I did not outright call you an idiot, I used the word in the same content as you use hypocritical. As for being childish, you keep making posts with reference to TDC and you think that is not childish? I happen to disagree with you.

But back to the topic. So Graybeard you say the NRA is who the Congress listens to? Then what good is the GOA, safari club international and all the other pro-gun rights groups?
I belong to several groups besides the NRA that are second amendment and pro gun groups and they have done a lot of good for our gun rights here in Delaware, but they are also supporter's of the NRA. The local NRA Representatives here in Delaware have done a lot for gun owner, we have not lost anything.

How many times have in other States have Legislators introduced anti-gun bills and the NRA was there to squash them? The NRA is so involved in all Legislation, it is with this that we as gun owners become aware of the laws that are amended and attached to bills that are not gun related but have the attachments. Without these warning we would not know of all the anti-gun bills introduced.

Who else is putting out these alerts? You don't see them in the local media or on the news. The NRA is not the enemy.
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crow_feather, sorry buddy what you described is compromise on your part. You are willing to give up guns that you don't think are needed or should be used, which is a personal judgment of what is acceptable and unacceptable. I think Zumbo did the same thing and you see how that blew up in his face.

myronman3 · « **Reply #247 on:** July 19, 2007, 03:49:04 AM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on July 18, 2007, 06:09:46 PM

I for one will be the first to admit that I did not know that there was so much discontent with the NRA. Still no one can refute the fact that it is the largest gun rights organization. If it is truly broken we need to fix it. Arguing and name calling in not going to do it. Action is.

Calling each other hypocrites or idiots is not going to fix it. No one person or one organization is going to stop the attacks on the second amendment. We all need to keep our arguments to ourselves and stand together. Being unified is what it will take.

If it's hypocritical to want unification against the enemies of the second amendment then I'll be the first to admit, I'm a HYPOCRITE.

again with the "we must all unite" b.s.. give more $ to a broken and corrupt organization, so a certain few can continue to get rich off of undermining our rights? yeah, right. all i can say is some people just refuse to open their eyes.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #248 on:** July 19, 2007, 04:08:44 AM »

So what can we collectively as gun owners do? We can't just sit back and hope it will all go away.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #249 on:** July 19, 2007, 04:21:42 AM »

Quote from: Dee on July 18, 2007, 04:30:12 PM

Nonya if you would stop talking long enough to see over your mouth, you would realize that I am with you on the NRA issue.
Dee,

Dee it is sad even when you have spoken on the anti NRA side, even you are prone to attack from the very same people you are agreeing with. As I see it, none of use has done any good for the pro-gun cause. Sad very sad.

NONYA · « **Reply #250 on:** July 19, 2007, 11:13:51 AM »

What we should be doing is helping to bring one of the other organizations to the forefront of the fight,not trying to harass people into funding one that has turned against us.If you are too blind to see the truth about the NRA I doubt you even care,something this obvious shouldn't be impossible for a person realize.Trying to reason with you NRA fanatics is pointless,next time they compromise with the antis think about what we have been trying to tell you,doubtful though.

myronman3 · « **Reply #251 on:** July 19, 2007, 11:14:58 AM »

Quote from: Redhawk1 on July 19, 2007, 04:08:44 AM

So what can we collectively as gun owners do? We can't just sit back and hope it will all go away.

great question. myself, i introduce and educate as many new people to guns as i can. i also spread the word and make phone calls to elected reps. each person has to decide what they think is a good approach and enact it. what may be right for one may be bad for another. do what works for you.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #252 on:** July 19, 2007, 11:23:23 AM »

Well said Myronman.

Graybeard · « **Reply #253 on:** July 19, 2007, 12:26:41 PM »

Quote from: Redhawk1 on July 19, 2007, 04:08:44 AM

So what can we collectively as gun owners do? We can't just sit back and hope it will all go away.

Looking at it realistically there really isn't much more we're gonna do "collectively" than what you say we can't do. Harsh reality of life.

What we can TRY to do is to make folks aware of the short comings of the leadership of the NRA but that's a tough job as folks like yourself just don't seem willing to believe it and do anything about it. If you really believe the membership has any say whatsoever (I personally do not believe that) in what the NRA does then raise holy hell until changes are made and the leadership changes course or gets changed for new leadership.

Get behind a truly worthwhile if smaller group and help them grow.

Contact your politicians constantly and orgainize effective groups of others to do the same. Tell them how you want them to vote and tell them if they don't you'll vote them out of office and then do it. Good luck on that by the way as here in the deep south it's nearly impossible to remove one once they are in as folks think more of seniority than they do of being represented rather than being dictated to.

How much good will any or all of it do? Sadly from my observations and experiences not one whit. This country is too far down that long slippery slope for the ballot box to turn it around. Politicians don't listen any longer as they know you won't vote them out for ignoring you. I also suspect it's too late to change it by force as well for the same reasons you can't change it at the polls. Folks will not organize or agree on anything even armed revolt. So what's the bottom line? Glad I'm an old fart and don't have a lot longer to put up with it. Sorry for the kids and grandkids but then their generation is really the ones who've brought this on us. I wish I had a better brighter picture to paint for you but I don't sadly doom and gloom is all I see on the horizon.

Dee · « **Reply #254 on:** July 19, 2007, 04:39:57 PM »

Well GB, there is not much you say in this last post of yours that I disagree with, other than whom is to blame for us being where we are.
I don't believe for one instant that our children and grandchildren are responsible for our own apathy. WE are the ones to blame not them. For years we have tended our NASCAR, bass boats, basketball, football, and the batteries on our TV remote, instead of paying attention to our business. WE have let the politicians run our business into the ground while WE played. This did not happen on our children and grand-children's watch but, on OURS. It did not happen overnight, but over the last 50 years as we so called "Baby Boomers" played with our toys as children AND adults. We let someone else take care of our business, and they have stolen us blind.BTIJMO

Graybeard · « **Reply #255 on:** July 19, 2007, 05:45:42 PM »

I would agree not grandchildren they aren't that old yet but the folks in my kids generation a lot more than mine have let it slide to this point I feel. My youngest is at the mid 30s now and the oldest past 40. The folks in that age group have been in control of what happens at the polls for some time now.

Quote

For years we have tended our NASCAR, bass boats, basketball, football, and the batteries on our TV remote, instead of paying attention to our business.

Not this old fat boy. I've never watched a NASCAR race, never owned a bass boat, once only in my entire life when my older sister took me to the game when I was in grade school have I watched a basketball game and I've not seen a football game in over 30 years and not once in my life ever watched a baseball game. I plead guilty to having a remote control but didn't have until the early '90s.

Yes it's true the folks of the baby boom did start to let things slide but it was a slow slide for awhile and now it's a full on race down the hill. Placing blame is of no value tho one way or another what's done is done and while I wish I could see a way back up that hill I'm afraid that until we've lived in the quagmire at the bottom for 50 or so years there will be no way back up. Only when the masses are so affected they can take it no longer will an uprising take place that might succeed.

Dee · « **Reply #256 on:** July 20, 2007, 03:34:23 AM »

Well GB, I was speaking in general terms of the baby boomer, as I too am not a fan of any of the activities I named, including TV, but many of our generation ARE, and we must not forget that the morals our children have in the way of responsibility, patriotism, and generally taking care of business are the ones we as a populace instilled, or didn't instill in them. Once again I am speaking in general terms, not individually. I delt with many of these now adults, and watched a population of parents defend their children for some very bad behavior, or show no interest in them at all. Remember it was our generation that grew up in a very decadent 60s, and many maintained this decadence into parenthood.
____ rolls down hill, and I believe that in many ways we are all to blame for our present state, and yes, people and countries as a general rule will not stand erect, until experiencing the very negative prone position for a while.TJMO

beemanbeme · « **Reply #257 on:** July 20, 2007, 07:03:30 AM »

Dee hit the nail square on the head. We've dumped our kids in front of the TV(without supervision, we've expected our elected politicians to mind our store(without supervision) and we've played.
Quote Pogo: "we have met the enemy and he is us."
Nonya, in case someone hasn't told you, the 2nd has nothing to do with hunting. If I want a weapon that shoots 300 rounds a minute and feel that I need a weapon that shoots 300 rounds a minute to defend my home and family, the 2nd guarentees

myronman3 · « **Reply #258 on:** July 20, 2007, 07:18:02 AM »

dont worry, the terrorists are working on wiping the slate clean. once they succeed, if one is lucky or good enough to survive, that will be the time to set things right. and i aint talking about only the terrorists.
i have as much or more to loose than many, but sooner or later terrorists will succeed in their goal, and it will make 9/11 pail in comparison. i pray it doesnt happen, but if i am around when it does, and if i survive, then i think it will be time to clean house. until then......

Dee · « **Reply #259 on:** July 20, 2007, 07:34:08 AM »

Quote from: myronman3 on July 20, 2007, 07:18:02 AM

dont worry, the terrorists are working on wiping the slate clean. once they succeed, if one is lucky or good enough to survive, that will be the time to set things right. and i aint talking about only the terrorists.
i have as much or more to loose than many, but sooner or later terrorists will succeed in their goal, and it will make 9/11 pail in comparison. i pray it doesnt happen, but if i am around when it does, and if i survive, then i think it will be time to clean house. until then......

myronman3, you may very well have a point there concerning the terrorists and their endeavors. I have a banker friend that we share an interest in Christianity, (brothers in Christ) and in past, present, and future trends in the American economy. This man for those whom will question his credentials has been the PRESIDENT of several banks, and IS NOW of a large bank. I ask him about once a year, how far this nation is from a DEPRESSION of the magnitude of the one in 1929, due to our economy being solely based on CREDIT. His answer is always the same. A heartbeat away, and points out that the U.S. is THE MOST INDEBTED NATION IN THE WORLD. Perhaps you description of the solution is not so far off. The people of today's America INCLUDING the baby boomers are far different than those of the late 20s and 30s. They of that era were primarily agriculturally literate, and could garden, tend livestock, and use common sense to solve problems. Today (and once again I include the baby boomers in a general way) MANY folks don't have the foggiest idea of how to check the oil in their own car, much less, raise a garden, a goat, or most obviously a child. They have to read a book of unknown character, just to figure out how to discipline their own children. I am glad that some of these have neglected their right to vote. Once again. JMO

myronman3 · « **Reply #260 on:** July 20, 2007, 08:10:13 AM »

aint that the truth. i had this conversation with my girl the other day, her and i both are all about knowing stuff that the masses have long forgotten. when the next attack happens, i know it will be a matter of luck to some degree who survives, but having the skills to continue to survive if you are one of the lucky ones cant hurt.

as far as doom and gloom, life in general is pretty good now; it is the deterioration of our rights, how our society lives off of credit, and the immigration/terrorist issues that really concern me. i guess i should throw in our corrupt politicians too; which brings me full circle to being right back on subject.

crow_feather · « **Reply #261 on:** July 20, 2007, 04:57:23 PM »

Just a while back, I was out shooting my friends WW II BAR (full auto) and admiring his browning 30 air cooled mounted on a tripod. I have bought rifles lately at a gun show and brought them home. I have bought off Gun Broker - until I was booted out for calling a skunk a skunk - he was - and had a person in town receive delivery. I really haven't seen much difference in gun laws except for the mandatory dealer check for felons etc. which I think is a good idea.

I believe that the NRA must have done some good as I haven't had to change my way of buying and shooting and I see where a person can still buy a 38 caliber pistol through the mail and the ammo for it.

C F

NONYA · « **Reply #262 on:** July 20, 2007, 07:52:49 PM »

Shows how little you know,try it in Ca.

crow_feather · « **Reply #263 on:** July 21, 2007, 08:35:22 AM »

Well, old fella, you can do it in Calif. Send me an e-mail and I will tell you how.

ps, before you insult a person, make sure you are right, otherwise - you just look stupid.

pills · « **Reply #264 on:** July 21, 2007, 08:36:50 AM »

I am wondering about buying the revolver through the mail...

NONYA · « **Reply #265 on:** July 21, 2007, 09:31:10 AM »

Yhe show me how to do that in ANY state without an FFL,the ONLY way you can is if its a blackpowder,frontloading handgun.

pills · « **Reply #266 on:** July 21, 2007, 09:33:16 AM »

or C&R if it is really old.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #267 on:** July 21, 2007, 09:38:09 AM »

California state law is pretty strict, firearms transfers must be done through an FFL, period!!

Tim

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/CASL.pdf

Quote

PURCHASE
All firearms sales, transfers or loans, including private
transactions and sales at gun shows, must go through a
California licensed firearms dealer.
An application for sale or transfer must be made
with a licensed California gun dealer before any firearm
may be sold or transferred. This application contains a
description of the buyer or transferee and of the firearm.
The purchaser must present the dealer with a valid
California Driver’s License or a California Identification
Card and supply their right thumbprint. The purchaser
of a handgun must also provide additional proof of
California residence, other than a document from the
Department of Motor Vehicles. The dealer sends a copy
of the application to the California Department of Justice
and the local police chief or sheriff.
The CA DOJ will conduct a background check on
each buyer and the fee is $25.00. There is a 10-day
waiting period before delivery of any firearm. Dealers
must keep a register of all firearm transfers. If a person
has voluntarily been screened through the Personal
Firearms Eligibility Check, and has been found eligible
to purchase and possess firearms, that person must still
undergo a background check and a 10-day waiting period
when purchasing a handgun.
If a person does not take possession of the firearm
from the dealer within 30 days, the entire purchase process
must be repeated, including the payment of fees.
The waiting period and dealer application do not
apply to transfers to police officers, other gun dealers,
manufacturers, or importers, antique firearms, and rifles
and shotguns which are classified as curios or relics by the
federal government, infrequent gifts or transfers to one’s
“immediate family,” an infrequent temporary loan not to
exceed 30 days to a person who is not prohibited from
possessing a firearm, and a transfer of a rifle or shotgun at
auctions by nonprofit or public benefit corporations.
No person shall make an application to purchase more
than one pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person within a 30-day period and
no delivery shall be made to any person who has made an
application to purchase more than one pistol, revolver, or
other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person
within any 30-day period.
No person shall purchase or transfer a handgun to
someone without a Handgun Safety Certificate (HRC).
To receive a handgun safety certificate, a person must
pass a written test that includes but is not limited to laws
applicable to the ownership, use, handling, and carrying
of firearms, particularly handguns. A CA DOJ certified
instructor must administer the Handgun Safety Certificate
test. The HRC is valid for 5 years.
To receive a handgun from a dealer, a person must
have or buy an approved firearms safety device. A list of
firearms safety devices certified for sale can be found on
the California Department of Justice, Firearms Division
website at www.ag.ca.gov/firearms

NONYA · « **Reply #268 on:** July 21, 2007, 10:20:17 AM »

Thanx for the data Quick.I wouldnt be offering to show people how to skirt the firearms laws if I were you Crow "Send me an e-mail and I will tell you how."

crow_feather · « **Reply #269 on:** July 21, 2007, 02:23:14 PM »

Email me and I'll show you how a 10 year old can do it without breaking any law. Not illegal, and I asked you for e-mail so nobody else would find out.

PS Told this to a very powerful anti gun Senator in Calif, and he didn't give a crap.

It isn't getting around a law - it's those anti gunners not caring about this because they could give snot about gun ownership. Screaming to get rid of guns keeps them elected in their big city areas, where people don't need guns and are afraid of them. It's not their passion - it's politics!