Author Topic: 50 Huntsman barrel coming ?????????s (Read 1111 times)

stimpylu32 · « **on:** May 01, 2007, 06:49:55 AM »

Can someone talk me through ML 101 , never shot a front stuffer before in my life . What do i NEED to have and what is NICE to have . I do have some powder , Pyrodex Select that i use for my 45/70 with cast bullets , nothing else .

Pretend that i'm about 10 years old and have no clue what i am doing .

Thanks guys

stimpy

cattleskinner · « **Reply #1 on:** May 01, 2007, 09:44:16 AM »

Powder- You have it covered, Loose or pellet form. If using pellet form, you don't need the next two things. You shouldn't mix the two types of powder(loose/pellet)

Powder measure- Needed in one form or another to measure loose powder. There are some that are just the adjustable tube, and some have a funnel on the end to make it easy to pour down the barrel. Brass or Plastic, take your pick

Powder Flask- Used just like the alcohol one, to hold a smaller quantity while out shooting or hunting. It also makes it easy to pour the powder into the powder measure, as well as adding a bit of safety rather than pouring straight from the 1lb. container with a funnel on it.

Short Starter/Bullet Starter- Needed to start the bullet or sabot down the barrel straight, as well as making it easier than trying to fumble with the ramrod as a starter

Bullets- Sabots-(can be bought already pre-packaged, or you can buy the sabots separate from the bullets and save some money)
Round balls- which are usually good for light loads in a fast twist as the huntsman, but try them to see what works for you, just be sure to use a patch(I like pillow ticking lubed with bore butter for my hawkens rifle)
Conical bullet- Maxi-ball/hunter, Great plains bullet, PR bullets, etc....just lube, stuff, and shoot

Primers- The breech plug uses the orange carriers using 209 primers to ignite. Some of the primers are pretty hot, hence the reason they are coming out with lower powered ones to cut down on the Triple 7 "crud ring" that you get after a few shots. Not a problem for you since you are going to try pyrodex. You can also spend about 60ish dollars on a .25acp breach plug if you want, look on the prbullets website for info.

Possibles bag- Used to hold all your goodies, when going to the range or the woods. I just use an old green surplus shoulder bag

---Use dish soap, and REALLY hot water to clean at the end of the day. Lube your breach plug good, and loosen it after a few shots so that it is easier to take out when ready to clean. Sourdough turned me onto using windex as a cleaner instead of water and soap...works just as good. This is going to turn into a hobby like reloading, you thing that you are going to use the minimum and get by, but you slowly accumulate more "stuff" as you go along. Plus you can use it for gun and muzzleloader season in Ohio. I use around 85 gr. pyrodex/ or Triple 7 with a saboted 250ish grain bullet the majority of the time. Definately cheaper than 12-15 dollars a box of 5 slugs....Good luck Stimpy, and if you have any other questions, just ask.

--Amos

burntmuch · « **Reply #2 on:** May 01, 2007, 10:00:45 AM »

some 209 primers , breech plug lube , 45cal bullets 240 grn to 250 grn, 50cal sabots loose powder, start with 90 grns or so see what your gun likes. mine likes 120 grns pushing 250 grain sabot. You dont have to spend a lot of money to get descent groups & you dont have to use magnum loads 150 grains. you can get bullets & sabots from midway. After yo get it sighted in clean it real good then shoot it again see where you hit clean as opposed to fouled. some barrels shoot better fouled. I like to have 2 or 3 shots thru mine before I take it hunting. Get you a tool to clean the hole in the breech plug, keep it with ya. Enjoy
Jay

snicker · « **Reply #3 on:** May 01, 2007, 01:22:36 PM »

Some speedloaders are nice for hunting. Makes loading easier and faster. For sabots try the T/C Cheap Shots if you plan on shooting alot. They are alot cheaper than most sabots and work real well on deer. Currently they are about $6 - $7 for 20 and Bass Pro tends to put them on sale close to deer season for under $2. Also, cleaning patches, lots of cleaning patches. I use 85 gr of APP and a 240 gr T/C Cheap Shot and will cloverleaf out to 75 yards which is about as far as I will shoot. The Huntsman is a great muzzleloader, hope you enjoy it.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #4 on:** May 01, 2007, 01:50:11 PM »

The stock ramrod is a joke. It can be replaced with a new one made by Hubbard Outdoors and for $25 you will have a ramrod that is 200% stronger two inches longer when extended, has the correct threads for accessories (the stock rod is threaded wrong) and has a relieved end to allow use of pointed bullets which the stock rod will not. I converted mine to the .25ACP breechplug and strongly recommend this change. The ramrod is even a stronger recommendation. If you are going to scope the rifle make sure to order the base from H&R as some bases that claim to fit will not allow the scope to be mounted far enough to the rear to be in the correct position.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 01, 2007, 02:04:38 PM »

Thanks for the input guys , as of now all i have is loose powder , gona pick up a powder measure and a ball / bullet starter and a fiberglass rod .

I like cast in most of my guns so this will probably end up as a cast shooter too . what do i need to look for as far as patches for these ?

I understand the no air gap between the powder and the projectile , but just how hard do you need to seat the bullet and most inportantly when loading the loose powder do i need to put a spent primer in to keep the powder from running out the breach ?

like i said , clueless 10 year old .

stimpy

burntmuch · « **Reply #6 on:** May 01, 2007, 03:02:10 PM »

Just pack the powder till the rod doesnt go any further, then mark the rod so its at the same depth every time. powder wont leak out of the breach.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 01, 2007, 03:20:42 PM »

Burntmuch

Thanks buddy , i'm getting smarter by the min.

stimpy

ken2222 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 01, 2007, 03:32:25 PM »

Rich....

In the end....what really matters is that you do EXACTLY the same thing every time....when I seat my bullet, I put three pushes on the rod with what I believe to be the same force or weight...what ever you do....mark the stick, get your son or daughter to do it, your wife or your cousin....DO IT THE SAME EVERY TIME! thats what matters, just like setting up your press...

Ken

burntmuch · « **Reply #9 on:** May 01, 2007, 03:42:09 PM »

mark the rod with tape until you find the load & bullet combo that works for ya, then do something permanent.
Jay

cattleskinner · « **Reply #10 on:** May 01, 2007, 03:45:37 PM »

The flash hole is just the tiniest smidgen bigger than a safety pin(which by the way is what I use if it gets plugged by too much fouling to clean it out). You won't have to worry about powder leaking out at all. When you say cast bullets, are you talking hard cast in a sabot(a very cheap method)? Or are you talking about casting conicals out of pure lead? If you use a full bore size projectile, you want it to be real close to pure lead just so that it makes it easier on you to push down the barrel. I'm thinking of trying the 255gr. Lee RNFP hard cast in a sabot when I make it home, and get a chance. I think that it will be the cats meow to be able to use it in my .45 colt and muzzleloader. I have had the opposite experience about the cheap shots on deer. They work great on a rib shot, but I hit one in the shoulder, and being only 240gr. and a hollow point out of pure lead, I don't think it penetrated enough. I would be a dime to a dollar that if it was a solid point, or a hardcast it would have zipped right through. Granted that is one example....a buddy of mine killed one that dropped within 40yds. through the ribs. They shoot nice though...w/in an inch and a half at 100yds.

-Amos

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 02, 2007, 06:27:12 AM »

Did a little shopping today, picked up a 100 Rem. 209 ML primers , 20 of the TC Mag Sabots with the 240gr Hornady XTP bullets and a CVA ball/bullet starter , still need a measuer and a new fiberglass rod .

Amos

I think i am also going to try some of the cast 250gr that i use in my 45LC , just because i buy them 500 at a time .

Got one more ?? , will a 45/70 case full of powder be a good starting load , i beleave that it WAS a 70gr BP load when it first came out many years ago but not sure how it compaires in todays standards . this is the load that i use in my 45/70 handi with a 405 cast bullet .

stimpy

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #12 on:** May 02, 2007, 07:32:05 AM »

The 45-70 case will hold a little more than 70grains as there was room to seat the bullet above that 70gr. charge. I will check one of my 45-70 cases and see what it actually holds full to the top. Back soon.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #13 on:** May 02, 2007, 07:40:31 AM »

I just water checked an R-P 45-70 case and the volume was 5cc. I checked the chart from my Lee measures and they claim that 5cc is equal to 73.5gr. of FFG black powder. Hope this helps. Probably would be a good starting measure until you get a real one.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 02, 2007, 07:48:37 AM »

Keith

Thanks , the only thing they had were the plastic speed loaders , so i'll have to order a measurer , don't find much ML stuff this time of year .

I am used to the recoil and report of the 45/70 so i was thinking that would be a good place to start , as for the top end what is max loads ?

stimpy

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #15 on:** May 02, 2007, 09:57:06 AM »

Not sure what rifle you are talking about for max load. If it is the Huntsman barrel that you just ordered I would suspect if it is the longer (24") one it is usually recommended for 150gr. loads. The problem here is 150gr. of what? I would not expect to be shooting more than 120gr. of real black or Pyrodex. I would reduce loads of Tripple Seven, American Pioneer, Black Mag'3 or any other substitute to 110gr. just to be safe. Personally I shoot elk at about 100 yards with 80-90gr. of Black Mag'3 and 300-348gr. bullets and get complete pass through on double lung shots. Not any reason to shoot more powder. You might go to the manufacturer for a manual for the rifle just to be sure that you have correct information. If you go to heavier conicals over 400gr. I would reduce the load again to around 80gr. max. Also if the rifle is the Huntsman, you had better consider a good recoil pad like the Limbsaver as the Huntsman is pretty light. --- ADDITION : I just looked at your picture and if that is you in the post you probably handle recoil better than I do. I am a little lighter built and recoil does not set well with me.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 02, 2007, 11:51:50 AM »

Ya Keith thats me , 6-1 / 290 , recoil is normaly not a problem , the reason that i asked about max loads is that i have seen guys post that they use 150gr of powder , that just seams high , but i don't know .

I'm thinking that i'll stay in the 70 to 90 grain range with the Pyrodex Select FFG , what do you think ?

stimpy

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #17 on:** May 02, 2007, 12:31:54 PM »

That is a reasonable approach. The Huntsman 24" barrel will likely be OK with 150gr. of Pyrodex FFG but there is no real reason to try using that much. Most muzzleloaders will shoot the best at the 70-110gr. range. Few will really be accurate at the 150gr. charge. A lot of the sabots will not take that much load without some loss of performance. As I stated the ability to shoot completely through and elk seems to be all that you should need. I know some guys shoot the real long distances (over 150 yards) but they are few and far between and most of us do not have the time to spend on the range determining how to do that. I limit my shots to 100 yards even though I use a scope. I passed up an elk that I ranged at 140 yards last year and did not get drawn this year so the freezer is getting pretty low. I am going to try to become confident up to 150 yards this year hoping to get drawn next year and be ready. OH, by the way I am 5'11" and 158lbs. and 68 years old so the recoil is not my friend. I also raced motorcycles so my body has some pieces that are not exactly where they were supposed to be. Broken ribs, broken collar bone, broken neck, seperated shoulder etc. The picture of the old cowboy that says "If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself" seems to fit me. Good luck with the Huntsman. I slugged my barrel and found it is a lot bigger than my Omega so loading should be a lot less of a problem. You might find some conicals that the rifle would like, many have reported that they will shoot the big conicals quite well. I have not had mine long enough to have a lot of history yet.

cattleskinner · « **Reply #18 on:** May 02, 2007, 01:07:51 PM »

Just like with any of the newer guns, those who shoot muzzleloaders can catch "magnumitis" too. If you shoot a 240gr.+ bullet in front of 80gr+ of powder, from what I've seen, you will have no trouble killing any deer out to 100-125yds. or more. The last one I got was right around 145-150yds. away, and I was using 85gr. of Triple 7 with the same sabots you just bought. I found the bullet about an inch or so under the hide on the off side shoulder(penetrated both shoulders). If it would have been a hardcast, I think it would have gone completely through, but these were the xtp bullet expanded really good, and got slowed down a bit on the way through. The manual used to say that 100gr was the highest amount of powder to use with the huntsman, and it wasn't till the sidekick barrel came out did they say that the barrels were rated for 150gr. of powder. In my opinion, the higher loads do nothing than thump your shoulder more, cost you more money per shot, and for what? The target or deer can't tell the difference...bullet just goes out the other side most of the time anyhow even with the lighter loads. Also, if you happen to try Triple 7, at least to me it seems like it jolts your shoulder a heckuva lot more than the way pyrodex or black tends to push your shoulder. And Triple 7 charges are supposed to be lowered 15% from pyrodex or black(if using loose powder). The pellets I heard were already factored into the 15% off thing.

~~Amos

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #19 on:** May 02, 2007, 05:39:35 PM »

Basically they increased the suggested maximum to 150gr. when they made the barrels 24" long. I think they believed that the shorter barrel could not burn that much powder anyway. I don't think in the NEF rifle that the safety factor was the reason although the early rifles with the large breechplug may have had a little strength problem due to that.

Busta · « **Reply #20 on:** May 02, 2007, 07:22:02 PM »

Quote from: Keith Lewis on May 02, 2007, 05:39:35 PM

Basically they increased the suggested maximum to 150gr. when they made the barrels 24" long. I think they believed that the shorter barrel could not burn that much powder anyway. I don't think in the NEF rifle that the safety factor was the reason although the early rifles with the large breechplug may have had a little strength problem due to that.

Keith,

Sorry to correct you here, but the 24" barrel is the shorter barrel, the 26" barrel is the longer "MAGNUM" (150 gr pellet) barrel.

Stimpy,

I use 80 grains Triple Se7en FFFG with a 430 to 460 grain all lead conical, knocks elk dead. For deer I have used everything from the 200 gr Shockwave, 250 gr SST/Shockwave, 300 gr SST/Shockwave, all with 85 to 100 grains 777 FFG. I have also used my elk load on a whitetail at 170 yards, no tracking needed.

My 2003, 24" Stainless Steel .50 cal NEF Huntsman Manual has recommended loads as follows. (Disregard the .45 caliber information on top, they never brought it to production)

Busta · « **Reply #21 on:** May 02, 2007, 07:46:48 PM »

Stimpy,

There is a lot of good information here, written by the late Rich Dunkirk (Bluelk). Some of it is getting dated, and I don't agree with everything he has written, but the basic information is very good. For instance, I wouldn't give you a plug nickel for a PowerBelt, and the barrel lapping is unnecessary IMHO.

http://www.realtree.com/bluelk/

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #22 on:** May 03, 2007, 06:39:40 AM »

Keith,

Sorry to correct you here, but the 24" barrel is the shorter barrel, the 26" barrel is the longer "MAGNUM" (150 gr pellet) barrel.

Stimpy,

Yes; you are correct, the 24 is the shorter and the 26 is the "magnum" barrel. I got my NEFs mixed up with my Whites. My White 97 Whitetail Hunter only has a 22 inch barrel.