Author Topic: Barrel Stubbing Round 2 (Read 9801 times)

trotterlg · « **on:** May 01, 2007, 06:19:11 PM »

I've decided to take another run at stubbing off a Handi barrel, making it a little less labor intensive. I have another new take off 300 WSM Remington barrel to use, I will chamber it in 30 Carbine because I have the reamer. This time around I think I will go with a drop in from the breach type and fit a barrel nut to tension the barrel in the stub. Sort of like a rimmed case with a very thick rim. With any luck I can use a modified nut on the barrel and a die to cut the threads on the barrel, that would save about 4 hours of work. It would also have the advantage of not cutting threads on the breach which would let a larger diameter chamber be cut in the new barrel. I have the takeoff barrel cut and a 12 gauge barrel for the stub donor, this will be done the easiest way I can think to do it. Larry

Mac11700 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 01, 2007, 06:22:59 PM »

Interesting...keep us posted

Mac

trotterlg · « **Reply #2 on:** May 01, 2007, 06:35:24 PM »

An interesting side note is that both of the Remington barrels I have worked with have not had the bore in the middle of the barrel. When I cut the breach off and then turn the outside of the barrel the cut is not even, so the factory barrel was not turned on center. Don't know what that means, but there is more metal on one side of the bore than the other. (it is even when I am finished however) Larry

Datil · « **Reply #3 on:** May 02, 2007, 01:00:44 AM »

Ditto what Mac said, I am all ears and eyes on this.
Good luck Marv.

eskimo36 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 02, 2007, 03:45:07 AM »

I think I understand what you are going to do and I applaud your initiative. Are you going to index it with a pin or some other type of device so it can be changed out,i.e., multiple barrels for one stub?

wtroger · « **Reply #5 on:** May 02, 2007, 06:25:43 AM »

You can use a witness mark and accomplish the same thing if you want to be able to interchange barrels. That is what I do on my Savage barrels so I don't have to carry go/no-go gauges with me at the range. If you are doing this as a permanent then add a drop of blue lock-tite and call it done. I just finished doing a rhineland arms conversion on a Mauser and they use a hole in the nut that an ar-15 buttstock spanner wrench fits to tighten or loosen the nut, and you can index the hole so it comes out hidden by the forend it made a nice neat looking barrel nut.

Isn't it amazing how sloppy some factory firearms are made when the barrel isn't even contourd on centers. I wonder if the threads where done on center.

trotterlg · « **Reply #6 on:** May 02, 2007, 03:41:17 PM »

I think the cut for the ejector will be index enough to take it out and put it back in. If I do it right you will be able to shim under the lip of the barrel to make the distance from the hinge pin to the breach longer if you need to. That would not solve a latch problem, but it would let you get the proper clearance to the breach, or trim off a little at the barrel breach to do an AI chambering. Best thing I think is that it will make it simpler to build, it could even be done without a thread cutting lathe. We will see, hope tomorrow to post some more pictures. Larry

trotterlg · « **Reply #7 on:** May 03, 2007, 06:04:28 PM »

Tonight I bored the 12 gauge breach for the sholdered barrel. I cut the "rim" to .933 diameter and .250 deep, this puts the sholder past the depth of the ejector cut which would allow for a shim to be put in if one wanted to raise the breach a few thousanths. Got a late start, so that is it for the night. Larry

trotterlg · « **Reply #8 on:** May 04, 2007, 05:32:50 PM »

Tonight I turned the barrel and trimmed off the stub, every thing fits together great, this is difinately the easiest way to do things. I can see there won't be a lot of taper to the barrel after I cut it down to pass the barrel nut, I guess I will use some real fine threads so they won't have to be too deep. It is looking up, tomorrow I will thread the barrel for the barrel nut and make a nut if I have time. Larry

MSP Ret · « **Reply #9 on:** May 05, 2007, 07:47:48 AM »

Great work on your part as usual Larry and best of luck with this new approach and be sure to keep us informed, the pictures are wonderful also so keep them coming. I can only wait and hope for a (my) .45 ACP Handi barrel....<><....

trotterlg · « **Reply #10 on:** May 05, 2007, 09:44:54 AM »

It continues to amaze me how loose the tolerances on these things are. This one had about .010 more metal on the left side of the chamber area than the right side, the last one I did had the excess on the top. I have the barrel turned for the nut, not as bad as I had thought, the barrel is .760 in front of the nut, so it still has a nice taper to the muzzel. I used the 12 gauge bore as is, that makes the chamber end of the barrel .802 diameter with a sholder diameter of .935. More pictures tonight. Larry

trotterlg · « **Reply #11 on:** May 05, 2007, 12:31:08 PM »

Made up the nut and threaded the barrel, these are the mostly finished parts, I will shape the barrel nut and polish every thing up, this is definately the easy way to do things if you need easy. Larry

eskimo36 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 05, 2007, 01:57:09 PM »

What type of forearm attachment for this one? Same as the last one or something new there too?

trotterlg · « **Reply #13 on:** May 05, 2007, 04:24:47 PM »

I think I will do the same barrel band, it is easy and works. I tightened up the whole thing and cut the breach flat, again, the breach was not square, you can still see the faintest bit of color at about 2 O'clock in the picture, it was out of flat by .006 inches, no wonder some of these things are fickel shooters. Larry

trotterlg · « **Reply #14 on:** May 06, 2007, 12:20:56 PM »

Cut the chamber and the ejector slot, the bottom picture is the tightened up and shaped barrel nut, I used the hole in it for a spanner to tighten it with, left the hole on the bottom to be hidden by the wood. I just need to polish it all up and put a finish on it. Larry

trotterlg · « **Reply #15 on:** May 06, 2007, 06:16:47 PM »

Think I will call this thread done. The rest of the finish work is the same as the last one, I will use the same barrel band and parkerize it. I will post when I shoot it. I think this would be the prefered method to use, there is much less work to do on the stub part, so there is less chance of screwing it up, plus you get a full .800 inch in the chamber area of the new barrel which is what a Thompson Contender has if I am not mistaken. That would give you some guide lines about what you could chamber a stubbed barrel in, if it were safe for the contender then it should be safe in a stubbed off handi. I was thinking about doing one with a fast twist muzzel loader barrel with deep rifling for lead bullets, like for shooting cast in a 45-70....................would this work? Larry

Busta · « **Reply #16 on:** May 06, 2007, 09:10:38 PM »

Quote from: trotterlg on May 06, 2007, 06:16:47 PM

I was thinking about doing one with a fast twist muzzel loader barrel with deep rifling for lead bullets, like for shooting cast in a 45-70....................would this work? Larry

Larry,

Excellent work, as usual. My experience with muzzleloaders and heavy long pure lead bullets would suggest that a fast twist is desired, but deep rifling is not desirable. For instance a .50 caliber works well with a 1-24 to 1-28 twist. A .45 caliber works well with a 1-20 twist. Rifling depth at .0035" to .0045", with .0035" like in my White Rifles being the optimum. My .50 cal NEF Huntsman with .0045" rifling is definitely no slouch either when it comes to throwing heavy lead (430 to 460 grain conicals) down range.

The shallow rifling works very well with the "slip-fit" conicals. It allows the bullet to ride down on the lands with only slight engraving during loading, but during upset (firing) it allows the the bullet to obturate (belly out) into the grooves filling the bore. You can just load and shoot, all day long without swabbing between shots.

If you want to shoot all lead conicals, I would suggest either No Excuses or Bull Shop unless you like to roll your own.

handirifle · « **Reply #17 on:** May 06, 2007, 10:24:24 PM »

If you're wanting to shoot 45-70 in this barrel, I'd suggest getting a 45 cal rifle barrel to start. I've been told the steel in a ML barrel is softer then one intended for a centerfire, but I'm not a metal person so I don't know.

Also, guys on the Shiloh forum will tell you if you want to shoot heavy bullets, like 500gr or so, get the 1-18 twist, at the 1-20 will limit you to about 450gr (like THAT isn't heavy enough huh?).

Nice work.

trotterlg · « **Reply #18 on:** June 11, 2007, 03:51:22 PM »

Finished off the 30 Carbine project, if it shoots well I will keep this one, it is really a nice feeling rifle. Parkerized barrel, fixed 4X scope, Wood stock with spray bed liner coating and an aluminum butt plate. With a couple of sling swivels I will be all set. Larry

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** June 11, 2007, 03:56:24 PM »

Another fine job, Larry!!

Tim

trotterlg · « **Reply #20 on:** June 11, 2007, 04:04:52 PM »

18 3/4 inch barrel 11 degree target crown and it weighs 6.25 pounds as you see it. Larry

cwlongshot · « **Reply #21 on:** July 06, 2007, 03:41:39 PM »

How about an UPDATE??

GREAT work and idea!! I was forwarded here from my request for a 25-35 barrel.

CW

cab32 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 16, 2011, 02:43:59 PM »

Hi,
New to this forum. Have read the faq and the topics on barrel stubbing with interest. None of the pics in this thread are visible to me. Can they still be viewed by others? I am trying to visualize the use of a barrel nut as described to tension the stubbed barrel.
CAB

Dinny · « **Reply #23 on:** December 16, 2011, 03:05:27 PM »

No pics here either. I was reading this as if it was all posted recently. What was the outcome of this project?

Thanks, Dinny

cwlongshot · « **Reply #24 on:** December 17, 2011, 12:06:04 AM »

Quote from: cab32 on December 16, 2011, 02:43:59 PM

Hi,
New to this forum. Have read the faq and the topics on barrel stubbing with interest. None of the pics in this thread are visible to me. Can they still be viewed by others? I am trying to visualize the use of a barrel nut as described to tension the stubbed barrel.
CAB

WELCOME!!
Something must have happened on Larrys end as I went back to the post he did when he build Eskimo and my 25-35 barrels and NO pics there either...

BUT I have pics of mine when I got it that may shed some light on things for you...

If you look just under and slightly in fornt of the front scope ring. You will see Larrys barrel nut. If you invision the barrel to be machined on the outside to look kinda like a shotgun shell. Only longer (The barrel) with the section where it exits the bore threaded for a nut. You will get the general idea.

Here is the breech end, you can see the barrel "ring" inside the stub of the frame.

I hope that better explains it for you.

CW

cab32 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 19, 2011, 04:35:56 PM »

CW
Thanks The pics help. What is the enlarged area on your barrel below the scope objective lens?
CAB

Dinny · « **Reply #26 on:** December 19, 2011, 04:58:49 PM »

Quote from: cab32 on December 19, 2011, 04:35:56 PM

CW
Thanks The pics help. What is the enlarged area on your barrel below the scope objective lens?
CAB

My guess is that it's some sort of military barrel that was used for the donor barrel. Rather than turning it down, he left it there for folks like us to ask about it. Great conversation piece that I bet shoots real well too.

---OR---

Maybe it's his forend hanger...majiggy

Thanks, Dinny

cowboyup453 · « **Reply #27 on:** December 19, 2011, 05:13:58 PM »

Quote

Maybe it's his forend hanger...majiggy

That is exactly what it is. Same as the firs one.

Quote

What type of forearm attachment for this one? Same as the last one or something new there too?

Quote

I think I will do the same barrel band, it is easy and works.

trotterlg · « **Reply #28 on:** December 19, 2011, 07:36:15 PM »

Sorry about the loss of pictures, they still exist, I just have to point a name server to my domain to get them to show again. I will try to get it running again. I generally use a section of the shotgun barrel with the forearm lug attached to use as a barrel band to attach the forearm, failing that I use a steel sleeve bored to the barrel diameter with a stud in it. Larry