GEMSBUCK -- yousure do have an inflated view of yourself don't you? i mention this as my evidence is once i mentioned my son shooting the 45/70, despite not mentioning him shooting at elephants, buffs, or the like, i simply mentioned him shooting the gun and the FIRST THING to pop out your mouth was to question how many elephants he had shot? quick to jump to that pathetic argument. here's a few quotes and opinions by those with much more experience than yourself, of whom i find imminently more qualified to speak than yourself. afterall, how many elephant have you taken? i'm sure it's less than these fine gentlemen. obviously bell used small calibers but here's a direct quote from ole' teddy roosevelt. i believe he's "been there and done that."
TR -- (pg.322) "our experience convinced us that both the winchester .405 and the springfield .300 would do good work with elephants; though i kept to my belief that, for such very game, my Holland .500-.450 was an even better weapon." -- you think the .405 is superior to the modern 45/70 loads? never said the bigger calibers weren't "better", but TR's opinion is quite obvious.
whether you think him nutty or not, taylor felt anything over 50 on his KO values to be adequate for elephant stopping but preferred rounds over 60.
from cartridges of the world compiled by randy barnes -- on the 9.3X74Rmm "...................it gained a good reputation in Africa for general use against most game, including elephant." did it say ideal? no, did it say as good as a .458? no, did it say it got a solid rep. based on how it worked, yup. that's the argument, not that the 45/70 is ideal, but that it's plenty adequate as it's easily on par and some would argue etter than the 9.3X74Rmm.
call these guys a liar and tell them they need to read more.
"Randy Garrett's 45-70 Hammerhead 540-grain hard-cast at 1550-fps went 55-inches into wet newspaper." "The 500 Nitro Express with a solid weighing 570-grains penetrated 48-inches into wet newspaper, followed by the 458 Winchester Magnum with a 500-grain solid traveling at a muzzle velocity of 2260-fps and 47-inches of penetration." Penetration tests conducted at the 2001 Linebaugh seminar.
- John Taffin, American Handgunner, July / August 2002 -- as have mirrored mine and my cousins tests and if you don't think my cousins wanted their big 460's and 458's to do better you're a fool.
you can go on sixguns.com and call ole' john a liar yourself. tell him he needs to get out and shoot more.
fact is the 2000-2200 fps barrier is and was needed with expanding soft points per many many authors, when sticking to hard solid slugs, this is not so much a problem and i'll give you a clue, take your .458 win mag you're so fond of and load it down a touch and use exiter or punch bullets and see your penetration increase as fps will be loaded down but those bullets won't deform and will penetrate any media you select with more bullet stability than any of the solids common to the .458wm and will therefore out penetrate it.
i was simply stating why an animal would die a week later and as i am aware of elephant hunter's penchant for turning up later to collect once the softening up happened, i was referring to your seemed implication that the calibers used were effective only if you saw fit to show up a week later. now don't get your panties in a wad b/c i misread or misunderstood what you meant by that one sentence. you've been doing so on many accounts on so many threads it's ridiculous.
