Author Topic: 450 Marlin. (Read 2953 times)

DalesCarpentry · « **on:** May 08, 2007, 02:01:04 PM »

Well guys as you may know I have been looking for a 45-70 or a 450 Marlin. I am looking forward to shooting a big bore. I think I have a good chance of winning a new unfired 450 on an auction site tonight. The scope I want to put on it is the one from Cabela's it is the Pine Ridge 3x9 that is meant for the Hornady Leverevolution ammo. With the bullet drop compensator. It is meant for the 45-70. I spoke with Quick a while back and he said that the 45-70 and the 450 are ballistic twins. So does this mean I should be able to put this scope on it? Dose anyone have a link to a site with ballistics? Also of the people out there that own the 450 how do you like it? How is it shooting? Any feed back on this round would be great. Thanks Dale.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** May 08, 2007, 02:16:54 PM »

I'm sure it would work on it with the right load, but I just sent one of the .444 scopes back to Cabelas, it wasn't worth half the money it cost IMO, field of view was real small, had the thick black halo around the field of view. I also couldn't center the reticle using the leupold mirror method, the elevation turret ran out of travel before I even got close. I didn't even mount it up, spent $12 and sent it back. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Tim

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #2 on:** May 08, 2007, 02:22:40 PM »

Wow Tim. I saw it on a thread not to far back and got me to thinking it would go great with a 45-70. Thanks for the heads up!! By the way do you have that link to that ballistic site? Thanks Dale.

greg916 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 08, 2007, 02:25:43 PM »

Dale, I had a 45-70 Handi, and a 450 Marlin Guide gun. I agree that the 45/70 will do anything a 450 will do, IF you handload. However, factory 450 Marlins are quite a bit hotter than factory 45/70's. The 450 was created so the non reloader couild have a "hot" 45/70 without the fear of somebody stuffing one in a Trapdoor!

I did not like the Marlin due to the ported barrel, but it was more accurate than my Handi. ( I seem to have had the only 45/70 handi that would not shoot under 3" at 100 yards ). The 350 grain factory loads had a tougher bullet than I liked for deer. I never got a chance to shoot the leverloution rounds.

I put shotgun scopes on both of my rifles, don't like my eye too close to hard recoiling rifles! I think the Pine Ridge 3x9 should be fine.

Check out the Hornady website, they have ballistic charts. (I do not know how to post a link!)

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** May 08, 2007, 02:32:13 PM »

Here's the Leverevolution info at Hornady.

http://hornady.com/shop/Ammo_LEVER_popup.htm

Here's some more bad press on the Pine Ridge scopes, I was hoping the Leverevolution scopes were better, but that wasn't to be.

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=52550367&page=&fpart=all&vc=1

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #5 on:** May 08, 2007, 02:42:45 PM »

Boy am I glad I started this thread!!!!!!!!! I was really going to order one. I may go to a Nikon or a Burris with the bullet drop compensator.

greg916 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 08, 2007, 02:50:15 PM »

Did not realize Cabelas scopes had such a bad reputation! For what its worth, I used Simmons Diamond scopes on my 450 and 45/70. 2x30 5 1/2 inches of eye relief.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** May 08, 2007, 02:53:52 PM »

Others to consider are the Banner with BDC or the Trophy mildot, although the 3.4" of eye relief on the Trophy may be a bit slim, but would work if you're careful.

Tim

http://theopticzone.com/detail.aspx?ID=3296

http://bushnell.com/general/riflescopes_banner_71-3946.cfm

http://theopticzone.com/detail.aspx?ID=3319

http://bushnell.com/general/riflescopes_trophy_73-3946.cfm

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #8 on:** May 08, 2007, 02:58:13 PM »

Quote from: greg916 on May 08, 2007, 02:50:15 PM

Did not realize Cabelas scopes had such a bad reputation! For what its worth, I used Simmons Diamond scopes on my 450 and 45/70. 2x30 5 1/2 inches of eye relief.

So how was the 450 shooting? I kind of hope I can get better than 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards. This will not be a target rifle. I just want to knock the snot out of a white Tail at no more than 250 yards.

greg916 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 08, 2007, 03:21:17 PM »

The 450 would shoot 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards if I did my part. Sighted in on at 100 yards it would hit about 4" low at 150 and about a foot low at 200. I would think to sight on at 250 you would probably have to sight in about a foot high at 100.

I have only killed one deer with the 450. About 50 yards. The 350 grain slug punched a finger size hole in and a finger size hole out. No expansion. Hit was broadside, low just behind the heart. Deer went about 30 yards and expired.

gomerdog · « **Reply #10 on:** May 08, 2007, 05:41:43 PM »

I have 2 Pine Ridge scopes. One is on a Marlin 444P, a 2 1/2 X Shotgun scope. I bought it about 5 years ago, mainly because it had about 4 inches of eye relief. Originally, I had a K4 Weaver on it, and the son of a gun nailed me above the eye brow once, which was enough for me. I haven't had any problems with this scope though. Admittedly the glass is not the best, but it's good enough for what I have been using it for. The scope and rifle combo has accounted for one elk, so far. I don't think I'd buy another one though; in fact I don't think this particular model is offered any more. The other is a 4X rifle scope that's currently on a 44Magnum Handi barrel. So far, it's been good. The glass seems a little clearer than the shotgun scope. Again, I don't think I'd buy another one. I have a 4X Nikon on my 30/06 Handi, and the difference in quality is obvious. It's better to save your pennies to buy a little more than what you can afford.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #11 on:** May 08, 2007, 05:58:10 PM »

I won.

I am a proud new owner of a unfired 450 Marlin. I just hope it shoots. It has cost me $127.50. A little high but it is new and I don't have to send my frame off just yet.

The way I see it he made about $25.00 on this barrel.

Dillohide · « **Reply #12 on:** May 09, 2007, 04:52:45 AM »

Congratulations, I think you'll like it ... I like mine. Got a Pentax fixed 6x scope on mine. The Pentax 4x worked so well on my 45/70 that I tried the fixed 6x on the 450 Marlin. Very clear, tough scope. I get about a 1 1/2 inch 3 shot group at 100 yards with the Hornady Leverevolution ammo but that's mostly me. It's a pretty hot load and will rattle your teeth. Generally I get the first two shots side by side and the third wanders off from recoil anticipation. I do much better with my handloads that are still hot but not that hot.

6Shooter · « **Reply #13 on:** May 09, 2007, 05:50:32 AM »

Quote from: DALESCARPENTRY on May 08, 2007, 02:42:45 PM

Boy am I glad I started this thread!!!!!!!!! I was really going to order one. I may go to a Nikon or a Burris with the bullet drop compensator.

I don't think you'll go wrong with a Burris. I have one on a Tikka and the compensator is dead on! A friend has one with the same performance.

Extremesolo · « **Reply #14 on:** May 09, 2007, 08:12:42 AM »

I have a 450 marlin handi barrell and I love it. I have a slip on limbsaver and the recoil is still very noticable. I shot two whitetails with it last year with the 350 grain hornady, both bang flops. The gun will easily do 1 1/2" groups with this load and I just got some leverevolutions to try as well. My choice of scopes is the bushnell banner #71-3947 (3-9x40 with extended eye relief). It is a fine fairly inexpensive scope and has performed flawlessly for me so far. It is a mean little combo that really packs a punch.

Dillohide · « **Reply #15 on:** May 09, 2007, 11:50:42 AM »

The Pentax scopes I use also have a bullet drop compensator that works real well. Maybe I'm dreaming but seems like I read somewhere that Pentax is actually a Burris scope?

cowboyup453 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 09, 2007, 02:17:57 PM »

Quote from: Dillohide on May 09, 2007, 11:50:42 AM

The Pentax scopes I use also have a bullet drop compensator that works real well. Maybe I'm dreaming but seems like I read somewhere that Pentax is actually a Burris scope?

I heard the same thing I have the 6x gameseeker on my 45/70. I like it so far. Got mine on ebay for $95
shipped.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #17 on:** May 09, 2007, 03:40:20 PM »

Wow!!!!!!!!!!! I just went to Ebay and you can get a Pentax Game seeker 3x9x40 with the bullet drop compensator for $99.95 and free shipping. Sounds like a great deal. It also has a forever warenty. Even if you brake it. I would just like to know how you calibrate from one caliber to another so that the bullet works.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** May 09, 2007, 03:41:18 PM »

Anyone considering the Pentax Gameseekers should check the eye relief, some have only 3" or 3.15", not a 45-70/450M optic IMO unless you shoot light loads.

Tim

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #19 on:** May 09, 2007, 03:47:40 PM »

Some more good addvice from Tim. I really never thought of it. I had a 300 Winchester Magnum and after a box of shells your shoulder hurt and left a bruise the next day. I wonder if the 450 recoils anything like that. Might have to start looking for a limb saver.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #20 on:** May 09, 2007, 03:55:30 PM »

The 450 factory or 45-70 with comparable loads will have recoil similar to the 375H&H and a noticeable amount more than the 300 Win Mag.

Tim

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

Dave Weiss · « **Reply #21 on:** May 09, 2007, 11:35:32 PM »

What Quick said about the recoil.
I found with the 450 and the 45-70 that I was actually able to achieve better groups with a receiver sight than with a scope, you might give it a try, I would suggest the williams WGRS and the high front sight available from H&R, only a $25 gamble. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

>>>===> Dave

Dillohide · « **Reply #22 on:** May 10, 2007, 04:37:30 AM »

Eye relief on the Pentax Gameskeeper is 3.35" for 4x and 3.15" for the 6x. I have these on my 45/70 and 450 Marlin repectively shooting heavy loads without any headake problems. However, ever since I had a 243 with an old Weaver K4 scope kiss my eye as a kid I've learned to hold on to my rifles. At the range, bent over a bench, I keep my left hand firmly on top of the scope with the heavy hitters. In the field you hold on and let your body absorb backwards. Even with 4" of eye relief, if you don't hold on tight they're gonna kiss you.

skifastchad · « **Reply #23 on:** May 10, 2007, 07:01:55 AM »

Quote from: DALESCARPENTRY on May 08, 2007, 05:58:10 PM

I won. I won. I am a proud new owner of a unfired 450 Marlin. I just hope it shoots. It has cost me $127.50. A little high but it is new and I don't have to send my frame off just yet.

4 months ago one sold for twice that on ebay. Consider yourself lucky, I think thats the cheapest a 450 barrel has ever sold on that site.

As far as the 450 balistics go, I only shoot the 325gr leverrevolutions. I have gone through 4 boxes now, and Im starting to learn the bullet drop curve. I have mine sighted in 2.5 inches high at 100 yards, and it hits 2.5" below zero at 200 yards. These plastic tipped bullets seem very accurate. Mine shoots just over 1.5" groups every time, clean or dirty. Thats something I could never say about my smaller bore handis.

One word of advice, save your brass. Once fired empty hornady brass sells for almost 60c each on ebay. I buy the leverrevolution for $26 a box and sell the brass for $12 a box. A net price of $14 a box is hardly worth my time to reload.

rex6666 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 10, 2007, 08:57:49 AM »

i bought a 450M from a guy i OKC on e-Bay about the same time Dale did and paid $133 with shipping good to hear all this good stuff, my was NIB also i am thinking seriously about open sites,
like the ones that come on the 500 barrels only moving the rear one back as far as possible.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #25 on:** May 10, 2007, 09:10:08 AM »

I plan on getting into reloading this summer so I will be saving the brass. As far as open sites go it only comes with a scope rail and no sites on it.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #26 on:** May 10, 2007, 09:52:13 AM »

I can not find the info on the Pentax site. Can someone who ownes a Game Seeker scope please explain to me how you calibrate for differnt calibers for the bullet drop reticle. Thanks Dale.

Dillohide · « **Reply #27 on:** May 10, 2007, 11:29:33 AM »

Calibrating the bullet drop was a trial and error thing for me based on my loads. I sighted normally 100 yards at zero and went from there. I think I still have my Pentax boxes and maybe something was in it regarding that. If there is I'll post it but don't remember anything other than general info. I got mine at Midway.

cowboyup453 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 11, 2007, 06:46:44 AM »

Quote from: DALESCARPENTRY on May 09, 2007, 03:40:20 PM

Wow!!!!!!!!!!! I just went to Ebay and you can get a Pentax Game seeker 3x9x40 with the bullet drop compensator for $99.95 and free shipping. Sounds like a great deal. It also has a forever warenty. Even if you brake it. I would just like to know how you calibrate from one caliber to another so that the bullet works.

Look for the buy it know or best offer you might be able to do better. Just start low you will be suprised at what they will take I know I was.

As for the eye releif Tim is right it is a little short. I got a light kiss, but it was my first shot with an near max marlin load. I really wasn't ready for that WOW.

I think I'll atay in the trapdoor level for know.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #29 on:** May 11, 2007, 01:54:35 PM »

Well guys I just paid for my new 450 Marlin barrel. It will be on it's way soon. I am going to go to Ebay sometime tonight and order the Pentax 3x9x40 Game Seeker scope for it. This scope has the bullet drop rectal. I think it will be a good match. I know it only has 3 inch plus eye relief but I am a big guy and know how to hold onto a hard recoiling gun.

Besides I really think I will be putting a brake on it. The gun range I shoot at, I have only run into other shooters a few times in a couple years. When I take it to shoot I would be considerate and shoot another rifle I brought along till they leave. Who know they might like to try it. I am a firm believer that what goes around comes around. I milled some pieces of rose wood for MSP RET a couple months ago so he could make some forearms for his Handie's I did this free of charge because I like to do things for people. I makes me feel good. Well last night another member aproached me and asked if I would be interested in having him make and install a thread on brake on my new barrel. Free of charge. I said yes. I will keep you guys updated on the progress of this project.