A Big Thank You To Missouri Cannon Works

[Terry C.]

If the Bocce balls are true to their advertised diameter, then 109mm would be perfect. You are talking about being .0013" over your ideal windage, less than 1˝ thousandths of an inch. You can't realistically expect to get it any closer than that, buying 'off-the-shelf' as it were.

A 108mm ball would be .039 smaller, that's a significant amount of extra windage. I would only use the 108mm if the diameter or roundness of the balls was wildly inconsistent.

I know nothing about Bocce (except that C3PO speaks it fluently) but I get the impression that the balls are pretty precise.

[Cannonmaker]

sounds like you found you some projectials,  Good shooting to you, the size is just fine.

[Double D]

Get some of each and test them?

[Cat Whisperer]

Hmmm.  Cheap ammo?

I first fired my 4.55" bore diameter mortar with 46 oz juice cans full of rocks, sand and whatever.  Cheap/crude but they worked - a bit small for mine, may fit yours MUCH better.

[jeeper1]

Here is a program for converting almost anything to almost anything.
http://joshmadison.com/software/convert/
I have been using it for several months now.

[GGaskill]

109mm is fine if they actually are 109mm.

[mac_hunter]

Thanks guys. I'll be getting the 109mm balls. I guess I could then name my mortar like the Army does their artillery. It will be known as the 109mm Mortar. Neat, it's bigger then a 105mm Howitzer.

[lesmoore]

I've been toying around with the prices of black powder on Graf and Sons website, they are pretty close to where I live (about 2 hour drive) and was planning to call and see if I could just go and pick it up, would save shipping and hazmat fees that way. Who knows though with gas prices the way they are.

I shoot  Pyrodex RS these days, no hazmat fees and you can buy it at most WalMarts and Bass-Pro Shops.  For a good discussion on Black Powder and it's substitutes see...  http://www.chuckhawks.com/difference_black_powders.htm
If Your powder chamber is deep enough you can use the same load I use for my golf-ball cannon.  My chamber is 1.73" and I've found that with Pyrodex the minimum charge is one level tablespoon for a reliable BOOM.  I go for a heaping tablespoon....  because Pyrodex is lighter by volume than black powder, the load is about equivalent to 1 oz. black powder.  This way you can get about 15 blank shots out of a 1 lb. can of Pyrodex or black powder.  The trick is to use a  "flour burrito" topping the powder charge to get enough pressure for a BOOM instead or a poof. ( make sure you replace your wife's baking flour or you won't get any biscuits.

My standard load for a golf ball cannon is 1 to 2 tablespoons of "Pyrodex RS"  or black powder, wrapped in aluminum foil, tamped into the barrel with a wooden dowel. Next:  3 to 6 tablespoons of all purpose flour wrapped in foil like a burrito tamped into the barrel tight.  I use a wire 'pick' to insert  the fuse through the foil. This load is LOUD and can be fired as a blank or topped off with a golf ball.  The flour burns and adds smoke and the foil is destroyed.  Good Clean Fun! 

I just ordered another 'golf ball' barrel from Missouri Cannon Works yesterday.....  John is good people.

[mac_hunter]

Got the 109mm Bocce Balls delivered to the front door of my new house the other day and they are a perfect fit. I'm excited. Now that I have all of my stuff together, I'll be getting to let my 109 Mortar speak finally. I'll make sure to get pics for you fellas.

[Cat Whisperer]

Hmmmm.  109 mm = 4.2913"

That's a four-duce-plus.

[mac_hunter]

I finally got to fire some blanks in my mortar back on Monday. Totally awesome!!
I fired 6 shots and burned 2 and 1/4 pounds of powder. Had a guy come ask what it was we were shooting who had been fishing off a bridge about 500 yards from the range where we were firing. He said that when the first charge went off, he "felt it shake the bridge!" That is the kind of reaction I was looking for. Hopefully real soon I'll get around to shooting those 109mm Bocce balls I got for it. Do some range testing.

Also found out that just the tube itself weighs 95 pounds. The bed by itself also weighs 95 pounds, so together the whole "shootin' match" weighs in at 10 pounds under 200.

[Double D]

Do substanially reduce those charges before you ad the balls-substanially.

[mac_hunter]

Yes DD, that is what I fully intend to do.
I was thinking around 1/2 oz. of Cannon grade powder as a starting point for shooting the 109mm Bocce Balls (which weigh 2 pounds 13 & 7/8 oz.) and see what range I get and work from there either up or down in powder charge depending on what range I'm trying to achieve. For the blanks, I was using 1Fg and believe that 4 oz. is sufficient for noise factor, safety purposes and economy of shots per pound verses 6 or 8 oz. in that big 109mm Mortar of mine.

[Double D]

Max load for your powdere chamber is 500grs. An oz is is 437.5 grs. make you starting load 200 grs.  and work up from there in five grain increments. 200 is easier to keep track of than 218.75 grains.  Keep good notes for future reference.

Stay Safe and have fun. Photo's of smoke and fire are just shy of manadatory.

 

[mac_hunter]

I have a digital kitchen scale bought out of Wal-Mart that weighs in oz. up to 5 pounds. I reads to an accuracy of 1/8th oz. 1/8th oz.=54.6875 grs.?
I also have an RCBS 550 reloading balance bar scale that has an accuracy of 1/10th of a grain.

Does anyone see me having a problem with getting accurate charges made up with either of these?

DD-by what you wrote, my starting load for shooting my almost 3 pound bocce balls of 1/2 oz. would be 218.75 grains which would be less then half the recomended max powder charge of 500 grs. for my powder chamber so I was in the ball park, correct?

Just doing my best to stay safe, have fun and keep my mortar a mortar and not a bomb.

On a side note, does anyone have a rough estimate of how far those 2 lb. 13 & 7/8oz. balls will go using 1/2oz. of cannon grade BP fired from a tube at a 50 degree angle? I'd kind of like to know the trajectory and range before I actually fire them, just for G-wiz. I have access to about a 1000 yard open ridge top that is a cattle pasture that I will be doing my range work on. I'm pretty sure that they won't go that far.

[Double D]

Yes correct you must keep in mind that the chart is recommended MAXIMUM Start with 200 grains.  I believe Switliks words are ridiciously low. Keep in mind that Switliks charts and teh N-SSA  and AAA charge guidle are for flat trajectory guns and not high angle mortars.  All we need is lofting charges.

During the golf ball mortar contest a couple of years ago I found that a MAX load of 50 grains sent the golf balls close to 200 yards.  I needed 30 yards for the contest. I ended up shooting 23 grains of Cannon Grade.  I had to weigh each of those charges to keep them in range.

1/8 oz increments is to large.  You are going to find the 5 grs make a difference, 54 grains a large difference. Also weigh several 1/8 oz charges out on the kitchen scale.  Then weigh them on the more precise reloading scale I think you are going find a good deal of variance.  Kitchen scale is not good enough. 

That being said, give the long range you have access to I would make up a series of charges two charges of each of the following weights. 200, 250, 300, 350, 400, 450 and 500 grains.  Weight these charges as accurately as you can.

Start firing from the smallest charge upward.  Make sure you have an aiming stake and you aim your gun every shot. After every two shots go recover you balls.  Take some stakes with you and mark you balls impact. Record the distance with the charge weight.   This will help you keep track of your balls.

It will allso show that point of diminishing return...the distance at which it is no longer fun to shoot the balls because you can't see them in flight or the impact plus it' a long ways out recover them and the rate of recovery decreases. 

I predict 100 yards with 200 grain. 

Yes use the 1000 yard ridge top, because you will fire at least one 500 grains shot, I know I would!

[mac_hunter]

Thanks DD. I will print your last post and give your advice a try. I will make sure to post results after my test firing of the bocce balls to give you a chance to say, "I told you so."

Whatever the results come out to be, I'm sure that working up those loads and recording the distances and sweating in the hot, sticky Missouri July humidity will be just as enjoyable.

Stay tuned.

One question I have is, since my roughly 2.25" deep by 1.5" diameter powder chamber will hold considerably more powder then the 200, 250, 300, 350, 400, 450 or 500 grains of powder for shooting the bocce balls (I think that it would comfortably hold around 3 oz. of 1Fg or 1312.5 grs.), should I be concerned with the air space that will be between the ball and the powder? If so, what is recommended to fill that air void? Sandbox sand, General purpose flour, corn meal, cardboard wads, grass, etc.

[Double D]

You will not get a told ya so from me, not at all.  What we all will have is a reference point to work from.

My guess is that you won't fire all these charges anyway, deminishing returns remember!

Don't worry about air space in these loads.  The windage takes care of part of the  issue with Airpsace in BP loads.   There are other issues, but don't apply here.

[mac_hunter]

Ok, I'll start with a measured 200 grain load (measured on my reloading scale) of cannon grade powder (once I get the cannon grade, or could I use some of the 7 odd pounds of 1Fg that I have?) with no filler between the powder and the ball and will inform the world what range those 2 pound 13 and 7/8 oz. balls return to earth. I will try to keep in mind the deminishing returns. I guess that truely is the cool part of this whole shooting projectiles thing, the being able to watch it go up and come back down and knowing where it came down without haveing to go on an "Easter egg" hunt.