Author Topic: R.E.A.L. bullets (Read 1430 times)

clodbuster · « **on:** May 24, 2003, 06:11:01 AM »

Lee makes two weights of REAL moulds in 50 cal. but I never hear anyone talking about the lighter one(250gr). Isn't it any good or what? It seems like a weight and length that should stabilize well in the 1 in 48 twist barrels and one that doesn't generate so much rearward pain. How 'bout it?

Thomas Krupinski · « **Reply #1 on:** May 24, 2003, 07:11:22 AM »

Each barrel is an individual, but the the shorter REALS will generally do better in the slower twist round ball barrels like 1:66, while the longer one will do better in the 1:48 twist.

I have a fiiend with a .50 Hawken, we think it's an older Lyman, but could be more customized, that the only bullet it will shoot (and very well) is the shorter Lee REAL. While my 1:48's do better with the longer one.

The amount of the powder charge (velocity) will also have an effect upon the twist/length stability relationship. It is comes down to just experimenting until you find the combination that your barrel likes the best.

bubba · « **Reply #2 on:** May 24, 2003, 08:32:55 AM »

I have shot the 250 grain 50s in my t/c hawken. They work very well deadly accurate and lots of kknock down with 90 grains of ffg goex behind them. They hit hard and no chasing the deer I have shot with them out to 100 yards

muzzleblast525 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 22, 2003, 03:36:41 PM »

My question is what do you use to lube the bulltet?

Thomas Krupinski · « **Reply #4 on:** July 22, 2003, 04:07:50 PM »

Fill the groves with either T/C Bore Butter or Crisco shortning.

muzzleblast525 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 23, 2003, 07:06:21 AM »

I've used Bore Butter, but talk about a big mess.......I have to carry a rag with me just to be able to clean my hands after using the Bore Butter....A friend said Crisco is about the same....

Thomas Krupinski · « **Reply #6 on:** July 23, 2003, 07:32:56 AM »

The Crisco is a little worse and tends to result in a bit more blackpowder fouling. However the mess goes along with the smell and smoke and is part of the traditional muzzleloading with blackpowder. Actually rub the Bore Butter into your hands, keeps them conditioned!

If you want cleaniness, try smokeless cartridge rifles, that's what it evolved to.

RBak · « **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2003, 09:28:00 AM »

Hi Tom, I agree with your thinking on the REAL from Lee. It does appear the longer bullet fairs a bit better with the faster twist....at least in my .54 Hawken with a 1:48 twist.
I don't have a mould for the Lee .50 yet, but I do have intentions of casting the lighter REAL for my .50 Penn.Hunter which has a 1:66 twist. Keeping with this line of thought...My .58 seems to do just a bit better with the 315gr conical that the 525gr conical, and it has a 1:72 twist.
Both the .50 and .58 are great round ball shooters, but there are times when one wants more weight and the REAL seems to fill that gap nicely.
The Buffalo Bullet, and a few others I've tried, were not what one would want in the accuracy dept. albeit, I'm sure the energy was there.
Respectfully, Russ

Thomas Krupinski · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2003, 10:07:23 AM »

Hi There Russ,

I think you will be happy with the shorter REALS in those round ball barrels. Those REALS are about the length of the round ball. And for the price of those moulds, you can't go wrong experimenting.

Another element to throw into the length/twist bullet stabilation equation is the velocity of the projectile. Now if I remember it correctly, the faster you push the projectile, the faster the twist that is needed to stabilize it. I am just going on memory now, so someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #9 on:** July 23, 2003, 03:18:53 PM »

RBak

I am a little off-subject, but is that Penn. Hunter the older model with a octagonal to round barrel? I foolishly traded mine off for a Renegade flintlock, didn't like it so I sent it back. The agreement was that if one of us didn't like what he got the trade was off. Well, I didn't get the PA Hunter back. Bummer. It shot real well with both round ball and REAL bullets, though I don't know right off which mold I have. I believe that at the time I bought it Lee only had the one mold.

-Kees-

RBak · « **Reply #10 on:** July 24, 2003, 04:58:40 AM »

"I am a little off-subject, but is that Penn. Hunter the older model with a octagonal to round barrel?"

Hi Kees...I don't think that is one bit off subject!

Anyway, Yes. It is the older, 31", Octagon to Round, 1:66 Twist. Percussion. In all honesty it is the sweetest "handler" of all the rifles I own. The balance seems just right for this old, now overweight body. I don't know the actual weight, but I would guess it to be right at 6.5 lb. It is indeed a pure joy to carry in regard to weight & balance.
And, recoil is not that bad with moderate loads. Hunting loads can be quite different, but we all know where that cut off point is.

On the subject of recoil...The hardest recoiling gun I own is the Hawken in .54 cal. Shooting the 485gr OS Minie, with a 1:48 twist, in front of 90-100gr Goex FFg, you know very well when you touch one off. The weight of that gun is about 7.5 lb.

My .58 cal is a 1861 Colt "Special" that weighs in at a bit over 10 lb. It has a 40" barrel, and a 1:72 twist. This thing is a real "pussy cat" with round ball and 55gr. Goex FFFg. However, when I shoot the heavy Minie Ball at 525gr, behind 80-90gr of Goex FFg, it gets down right ugly from the bench. Neither of these two guns has the balance / feel of the little Penn.Hunter.

Back in the 1960"s -70's, I had a little T/C Seneca in .45 cal. I don't know,or ever probably ever knew, what the twist rate was. I shot patched round ball in that thing, and I killed a lot of Deer. I had the highest level of confidence in that little gun! That was, of course, before I got real interested in Muzzle Loaders and started reading all the "hype" about how a .45 cal round ball is not enough "medicine" to succesfully take Deer.
So, I traded the gun off for something "bigger & better", and for several years I regretted that mistake. It may be said that the trade was possibly one of the worst "deals" ever for this old boy. I would sure like to get my hands on another one that shot that well.

IMHO there is a bit more to a muzzle loader than just raw down range energy. That energy ain't worth a hoot, if it's expended in the ground or on a tree.
Respectfully, Russ

Ironwood · « **Reply #11 on:** July 24, 2003, 03:28:47 PM »

I have been shooting the 320 gr .50 cal REAL bullet for about 7 months now. I was interested in this thread because I've been thinking about going to the 250 gr bullet in my 1 in 48 twist Hawken. From what I'm seeing here I think I'll forget about the 250 for the present. I'm getting pretty good accuracy, about 2" at 50 yards, with the 320 gr bullet and from what I see here I don't think I could really expect better from the 250 gr bullet. Actually the gun will probably shoot much better. These 66 year old eyes just have a little trouble seeing the sights.