what about bowens and linebaughs etc.

[kennisondan]

I see a lot of traffic about other makes and models but not much about linebaughs et al...freedom arms seems to be the benchmark..
why is that ?
Inquiring minds want to know.
dk

[JHT]

DK,

You have made an excellent inquiry.  I have a Ruger Bisley, .475 Linebaugh made by John Linebaugh perhaps 7 years ago.  He is a gentleman who really believes in the product that he developed and now produces; each of his guns are produced with the detail of a jeweler.  John is an honest, personable and informative man, he enjoys talking about his guns and as well as those made by others.  As busy as he is, he seems to make time for those who phone him, usually regardless of the hour.

If you are seeking a truly hand built gun you cannot go wrong with owning a Linebaugh.  While John is well known for his .475 and .500 Linebaugh calibers he does very highgrade quality work with numerous other calibers.  By the way, his son Dustin is now producing "Linebaughs" on his own as well.  Dustin has the same personality and drive as his father.  Either way, owning a gun produced by either father or son will certainly be held in high esteem by its owner.

I recently loaded 500+ rounds of 420 gr. gas-checked lead rounds and I am now making time to put these downrange.

In my opinion, Freedom Arms produces a fine weapon, but lacks the individual attention to detail that the Linebuagh's possess.  Regards,

JHT

[Lloyd Smale]

you will never go wrong buying a gun from John or dustin or for that matter hamilton bowen or Dave Clements or ben forkin or many other gunsmiths. We are living in the best time in history for a guy that wants a custom handgun. I hear all the time people saying your nuts for shelling out that kind of money for a handgun but when you look at the time it takes a gunsmith to build one youll find that there prices are a bargin and most of the people that will call you nuts have a 20000 dollar boat or motorcyle or some other expensive toy that they dont bat an eyelash at buying but think 2 grand for a gun is outrageous. Its all in what you enjoy and for me my enjoyment comes mostly from guns anymore and you can believe one thing. IF anyone tells you his ruger or smith is as good as any fa gun or custom that person just doesnt know guns!! ITs like comparing a porche to a yugo.

[JHT]

DK,  Llloyd is 100% correct in his assessment of today's custom made guns and the reasonable amount that one may pay for them.  The amount of money for both labor and materials will be much appreciated once you handle and shoot these custom made weapons.  Having one custom made weapon from any of the smiths mentioned is in my opionion worth forgoing 2,3, or 4 production line guns.

JHT   

[kennisondan]

JHT and Lloyd : thks; I still want a lLinebaugh, bowen, clements or other customized larger bore five or six shooter... I need to have some idea where the prices fall approximately as I have a handle on the FA offerings at 2k new or 1600 LNIB for a premier..I could go to maybe 3k this once.  I was thinking 475L or 454 with extra cylinders for either one... for versatility.  I want the gun still to be portable ( I just bought a Finch accurized and improved Long Hunter colt clone usfa in 4 and 5/8 inch..and it is the most portable and handy pistol aside from my autos that I own and looks and pull nice too..)

I love the idea of perhaps using my older 45 70 brass to recycle into 475 pistol brass... and will likely load it to reasonable recoil levels and enjoy the thump unless I intend to kill my first elk or go to bear country or something really cool like africa..but it is the idea of a special revolver of great quality and a big bullet with lots of potential gets me moving..
so I could decide to go with the fivehundred as long as it is in a regular sized gun or almost so.  It may be more pleasant than the smaller diameter bores with still lots of punch.
thanks in advance.
dk

[MS Hitman]

A Linebaugh conversion starts at $2k, plus the cost of your base revolver.  There is commercially available .475 and .500 Linebaugh cases, so making the cases is really a moot point at this time.  The revolvers are not much different in dimension than stock Rugers, so they are in my opinion, very packable.  One can load these calibers to around 1,00 fps and still have plenty of punch without all recoil and noise.

[JHT]

DK, MS Hitman correctly covered all of the salient matters within his response.  He correctly covered the areas of gun production cost; the fact that cases are being commercially produced for Linebaugh loadings that in fact are well made; the issue of the gun "being quite a packable weapon"; and lastly, the fact that high velocities are not required in order for a loading to possess a high degree of authority.  Regards,


JHT

[Lloyd Smale]

making 475s out of 4570s can be done but its a pain in the but and 4570 brass varys alot in thickness enough so that load developement can change just with brass headstamps.  Best bet is to just buy a box of brass from bba or hornady and have good brass. The .475 is a high pressure handgun round and runs much higher pressures then the 4570 and i dont know how good of an idea it woud be to reuse wore out 4570 brass. Price varys greatly. Im sure you could get into a plain jane 475 from one of the linebaughs or bowen for 2000 maybe a couple hundred less from clements. Options are where you run into the big money things like case hardening octagon barrels barrel bands custom sights and grips can really run up the cost. One bit of advice ill give you if its going to be a once in a lifetime custom project is not to cut corners. Build your dream gun the way you dream of it as once its done its going to cost alot more if you want to upgrade it later. You should be able to get into a dream gun catagory for around 3 grand.

[kennisondan]

I am gonna do that...I would be willing to get rid of a few other guns, and make the expenditures necessary, now that I know a little more...the idea on cases is well taken... 2k for baseline custom and 3k for dream gun bells and whistles... I have had many guns but numbers is not it for me now.. i want only a few that i can use very well.. all my dream guns, cause my days are shorter than ever..for now, I will keep one 44, one 45, one acp, one auto rifle, one single shot Ruger one, one shotgun...once I get the custom gun, either the 44 or 45 may go next..I want to be really good with each one, and shoot each one a lot..
I will compare the guns that are too similar and pick the one I am most likely to use.. sell off the others. It is wierd for me to think that way, but I am ..
I am excited with the prospect of my dream revolver.. ever since I first read about them I wanted one..
that Moves me.
dk

[JHT]

DK, it appears that you know what you want.  My advice is investigate a bit more and then go after it.  Best luck and your new acquisition and let us know what you decide upon getting.  Regards,

JHT

[EdK]

In defense if the FA choice: they can still be had in Premier grade for about $1200 (LNIB) but you have to be patient and look around. This is really only for 454 as they are by far the most common. They are every bit as functional as the customs but are still a production revolver and do indeed lack the flair. I didn't buy my FA 454 because it won out in a comparison between it and of the customs. I bought it because at that price, it compares favorably with a Ruger (price-wise) after paying a gunsmith for a trigger job, base pin, better sights and so on. My decision was more like $8-900 Ruger versus $1200 FA and a ownership of a Ruger I would have to hotrod vs. a FA that could take it in stride . If I were going to spring for a new or "customized" FA then I could see perusing all the smiths you are considering now. I think you are on the right track.

[Luckyducker]

I had a co-worker a few years ago that sent a Blackhawk in to Bowen to have rebuilt to 475Linebaugh and they added some aesthetic enhancements to it also.  Now I realize that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and not everyone sees that the same way, so the fact that I didn't loose my breath at the sight of that revolver was really no big deal.  Now the real problem I had with his new expensive wheel gun was the fact that two of the chambers wouldn't extract spent cases without using some other tool than the self-contained extractor rod.  He was very disappointed in this and I was surprised that Bowen let it out the door with that problem and don't know how or if this was resolved.  What the point of this is, even a Cadillac or Rolls Royce can have a glitch no matter what they cost.  I would take a FA if I had the money and inclination to buy a more expensive revolver.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ed and lucky ill address you both in one post. First Ed. Pal if i guy can pick up a FA premier grade gun in any caliber for 1200 bucks hed better jump on it. Your getting a hell of alot of gun for the money with a buy like that. Im not going to get into the fa vs custom argument because i like both of them alot and they both to me have advantages and disadvantages and it makes it about a wash for me. Lucky id like to know what bowen came up with when the gun was returned for repairs and what loads were being used. Ive never owned a bowen gun but the guns Ive shot of his have always been at the top of the heap even in the custom market. A guy has to keep in mind that when dealing with the 475 and 454 your dealing with very high pressure handgun rounds. Much more so then a 500 linebaugh or a 44 mag. Ive got loads in my linebaugh gun that run fine but will get pretty sticky in my buddys gun. Everygun is its own animal but i can say the same when really pushing a 44 or 45 colt too. Now your preference to to FA is based on what? have you owned one. Have you put many thousand rounds through one? I may sound a little snotty but to much bad info is pushed around the internet that is second hand. To many buddys buddys cousins have had bad guns by so and so. I can give you a link to a cast bullet fourm that has really taken to bashing the FA guns lately. Seems like one or two examples have snuck out of the factory that are not just perfect. Now how the hell could that happen. Everybody knows if you spend over 500 dollars on anything in the united states your guaranteed perfection. I really doubt if hamilton spends a night with every gun that comes out of his shop. As a matter of fact ill about gurarantee you that theres a few that go through there that hes never even seen or touched. He is though a top notch artist with metal and what he does do is guarantee me that his experince is enough to insure that not on blasted idiot that takes short cuts will ever be employed in his shop. Now ill address the fact that you were not impressed with the looks of the gun. When i order a custom the last thing that i address is what the fancy stuff on it will be. You want some fun try talking to John Linebaugh about building a fancy gun. He flat doesnt like it. He thinks a gun is a tool and should be used as one and all that flash is for nothing. What it does for the most part, and ill testify to this myself, is create a gun that is to pretty to take out and run the hell out of. John prefers to build guns for shooters not for guys that want to impress there buddys with there pretty toy. The beauty of these guns is on the inside not the outside and that includes a FA gun. Theres about nothing more plain jane looking the a FA gun. But handle one and shoot one for a couple months and youll soon find out what you paid for.

[kennisondan]

I like the idea that the gun is a tool, I feel the same way, but do like some style aspects of guns : the sleek lines of the single action, the business look of a 1911, and the lines of the rifle and the little lever on ruger number ones, ballards, and other single shots...but that is it for me.. with my sixgun, I want performance and no frills that are not usefully employed, except maybe a handle ( grip ) that dresses up the pistols... heck I am a little embarrased to field a ruger 50th anniversary 45 70 number one due to the gold inlays..as I plan to shoot it.. the wood is spectacular, but other than that I would already be attempting to trade it for a more utlitarian Ruger 1 model in the same calibre...but if not, "I will run whut I brung" and hope the deer do not dye laughing instead of bleeding--that would be hard to live down around the fire...LOL..dead deer no holes..smile that cannot be removed..LOL
I loved the 454 casull I once had, and thought there could be no finer weapon back then, now I am not sure of that but beleive it is the top of the single action production heap and looks just right for my tastes...I am anxiously awaiting the linebaugh small frame and ready to shoot it within its limits...i keep trying to stop this gun madness of wanting a bigger bore in addition, and am beating my self up over the calibers, etc.
at some point the money issue will raise its ugly head again..I think I could be happy with the Smith 500, FA 500 AE/WE, any custom 500..it just gets to be personal preference and the amount I am willing to spend at that point. Of course, my limited knowlege and experience is far overshadowed by my enthusiasm, but I hope that never changes... just hope both grow..