.22 Mag for carry

[SHOOTALL]

first firing a shot to flag um down , in a city , get real ! sounds like a REBA song !
and the doc. maybe he was the only show in town and was trying to save work for himself !
I have never shot a human and God willing hope to never have to !
but critters are another story and as small as a ground hog is a 22 mag. is a good head shot with a rifle , so you pays your money and takes your chances .
let Paco know warning shots are out of style these days !
They say a fire craker started Kent State , a warning shot may draw fire bad idea !

[Dee]

Like I said, I have never met the man, but I have known a lot of cops, and still know quite a few. When the beer is flowing and the tales are flying it can get pretty outrageous on how it's told, and how it actually happened. The bottom line on it all, is I gave information and some opinion based on MY experience, not someone I do not know. And I answered a few question directed toward myself. If one is confident in a 22 mag or a willow switch that's their business.
As far as ability I have known lots of gunsmiths, leather crafters, auto mechanics, and a couple of fighter pilots who were not only good at their craft but, who would also rather climb a telephone pole naked to tell a windy, when they could have sat in a recliner and told the truth with just as much interest showed by everyone there.
Know one is insulting your Mr. Paco, all he has to suit is you.
As far as the 22lr, a many a round has been fired thru livestock heads in kill plants down here in the south with much success. But that was in a controled enviorment.
I suppose the bottom line is if one is armed with a 22 mag. the major concern is that his opponent is not better armed.
I would like to comment on the knee shot though. If I had enough control over a man to get him to hold still for that, then why would I shoot him at all? And the gunwriter, reloader, firearms instructer thing is something that most of the men on this website could do.
As far as John Taffin, Brian Pearce, and Jeff Quinn, I can't comment on them as I have never heard of them. I do know personally however, some really good, and really dangerous men that carried a badge, that you have never heard of. When they talk I listen, because I know they know what they're talking about. And out of respect they listen to me. We have been friends for years and even though we have all gotten old, we still would come a hobblin if one got into trouble. We ain't much to look at, but we never were. Just willin to do what it took. I have a once redheaded Irish buddy (gray old and fat now) that once shot it out across a car hood with a black panther who was armed with a 1911. He won that fight rather decisively. A few years later he had a man blow a 2X4 into just above his head with a shotgun in a night ambush. He won that fight too, and now we play music together with bunch of other old men. They come in all shapes and sizes these fighters do. They aren't famous and they don't write articles in magazines, they just did what they did.

[Ratltrap]

Dee et al. - It wasn't my intent to belittle anyone's personal opinion and I'm sorry some of you took it that way. I certainly don't have any standing to say what the PC thing is to do in a particular law enforcement situation and I really don't care if Kelly's stories or yours are fact or fiction - the point of my post was to relate a somewhat differing opinion on the 22 Mag. as a personal defense round from published accounts by someone with verifiable experience and credentials.

I know meplat matters, but c'mon even you guys must admit that 1550 fps and 220 ft.-lbs. are pretty impressive numbers from a 22 handgun and certainly can't be much worse that the 380s and 9mms that a lot of cops I know carry for backup.

[SHOOTALL]

Guess I'm et al , impressive yes for a 22 ! a 9mm , 380 , not really the others have twice the weight !
don't worry about a different opinion , what a dull site this would be if we all said the same thing ! we just need to be polite since we are all armed !
some better than others ! just kidding !

[Dee]

I am not aggravate in the least, and am sorry if I came off that way. As I said, if one feels safe with a 22mag, when one can by the same size derringer in 357 mag., 40sw, 45acp and 45lc, so be it. My life is worth more than a 1500 fps 40 grain 22 bullet.
If I have to fight, and I have had to, I want to start with proper tools, and that is the training, the ability, the willingnes (determination), and the best caliber and quality I can afford. The two particular fights I was in, I was armed like a winner, and came out winner.
You don't win at Daytona on a lawnmower.

[LEO]

I have seen only two people who were shot with a 22 magnum.  The first was shot in the thigh and seem to have no ill effects at all and in fact drove himself to the E.R..  The second was shot at an upward angle, the handgun fell out of the victims holster struck a rock and discharged.  The bullet went up through the chest cavity penetrating a lung and lodging against the shoulder blade.  This victim almost died but he was able to move around for a while before collapsing.  The significance of this is that we must remember why we carry a defensive firearm.  It is not to kill people with but rather to stop them from doing whatever it is that they are doing to try to kill us.  So we want them to stop what they are doing right now, not at some point in the future.  Thus that is why we talk about the mystical/mythical stopping power of a cartridge as opposed to the killing power.  It does us little good to shoot someone if they still manage to kill us before sucumbing to their wounds.

With that said I have a Ruger single six in 22 mag that I carry a lot as a woods roaming handgun.  I have shot several critters with it and it works better than a 22 L.R. but no where near as well as a 38 or 357.  Now if I encounter a use of force situation while carrying this revolver I will not give up because I am "unarmed" but it wouldn't be my first choice as a defensive weapon.  In fact even when carrying it as a woods roaming handgun, as soon as I get back to the vehicle it is replaced with my 40 cal Glock.

As far as the stories of this happened or that happened, I have no idea what is fact or fiction and unless I know otherwise, I give the teller the benefit of the doubt.  The thing is when making a life and death decision about which defensive firearm to carry, it is not really all that important about what happened once but rather what happens consistently.

[SHOOTALL]

LEO good points , also it important what will happen if your choice doesn't work ! so i error on the side of over kill ! i mean over stop !

[RB Rooson]

I am a firm advocate of the .22 Magnum.  While I carry a .38/.357 the majority of the time, the .22 Mag is nothing to sneeze at.  The new high-velocity rounds (1900 fps/50 gr.) pack a pretty good wallop and the .22 Mag can be very comfortable to carry.  I shoot competitively every two weeks and really think the biggest advantage any of us have.....is to be able to hit what you are aiming at.

[Dogshooter]

One of the guys I hunt elk with here in Wyoming is a ER surgeon in Chicago. We've had a lot of discussions on what he sees at work and the subject of calibers usually runs towards which ones cause the most damage. This particular gent tells me he can always tell when a victim has been shot with a 22 mag because of the massive tissue damage and the fact that almost every victim dies. That being said, the stopping power may not be that great when compared to some larger calibers. But almost any handgun caliber is marginal in stopping power on a determined attacker. It has been said by pros that in a gun fight,  use your handgun to fight your way back to the rifle you should have brought to that particular gun fight in the first place.

[SHOOTALL]

The fact the your hunting buddy is seeing them indicates the lack of stopping power . In some cases the breaking of a hip , shoulder or other bones may stop an attack . The 22 mag seems lacking for this job IMHO .

[ironglow]

 While I have not the LEO experience that Dee , Paco Kelly or others here have, one can learn by observation and the word of credible witnesses. The idea  that police went from 45s & 38s to 9mm in order to stop drugheads, doesn't seem credible, unless the writer was considering the number of rounds as the deciding factor.
  My grandson, spent many hours rooting out Al Queda house to house in Fallujah and Ramadi in Iraq, does not consider the 9mm with military hardball ammo as a "stopper"..He preferred for that work, either the M4 version of the M16, or the Mossberg 500. Dee's son has participated in the same work, and I suspect Dee may have heard the same reports.
  
  The .22 mag..would it offer a bit more control and thus offer a better chance for facial shots? ...Asking, not telling.
   Someone suggested that the Taurus 941 was rumored to misfire often.I have a 941 and never had a poroblem with that...but I do have problems ejecting all 8 empties, guess I'll have to polish the cylinders.

  R B Rooson;
   You mentioned 50 gr  .22 mags that accomplish 1900 fps...who makes them ?

[coyotejoe]

   You mentioned 50 gr  .22 mags that accomplish 1900 fps...who makes them ?

That would be my question also. I like the .22 mag in both rifle and handgun and have chronographed every type I could lay hands on. I don't have my data here but as best I recall the 50 grain loads did about 1600 fps from a rifle, 40 grain loads were mostly less than 1900 from a rifle although some 30 grain bullets did top 2200 fps, all from rifles. From the 6" barrel of an AMT automag the best 30 grain loads went just over 1700, 40 grains were in the 1400's and 50 grain bullets in the 1200's.
 I once chronographed a few shots from a friend's .22 mag mini revolver with 40 grain loads and all shots were under 1000 fps. I only fired a few because the thing was so unpleasant to shoot and so inaccurate I feared for my chronograph.
I might also add that what you can do on the range bears absolutely no relationship to what you can do in a deadly situation. I've often heard people proclaim "a .22 is plenty, just shoot um between the eyes".
If you have the cool nerves to make that shot when someone is shooting back or rushing you with a knife you are one in a million individuals. Modern day cops are very well trained and very good shots on the range and the nature of their work gives them daily practice in dealing with stress, yet in actual gunfights 3 out of 4 shots miss any part of their opponent, never mind shooting between the eyes.

[RB Rooson]

I do stand corrected.....should be 40 gr. instead of 50 gr. (turned 60 and my mind went to jello...).

Link below to PMC 1900 fps .22 mags

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=309233

[Dee]

I won't get into a debate concerning a 22lr or 22mag as a carry pistol for defense. I will say, that God forbid I ever have to use a pistol to defend myself again, I hope my opponent if armed, is armed with a 22lr or 22mag. as he just upped my odds at coming out on top again.
Head shots? Never considered them unless looking thru cross hairs with my finger on a three pound trigger. In a real fight, all you want, is for it to stop with you still standing. That' the real world.
My son carried his M4 when moving house to house in Baghdad, but on entry, a good ole Mossberg 500 came off the sling and the M4 went back on the sling behind him.
Head shots look real good on the screen, but when your ears are stopped up, everything slows down, and the tunnel vision kicks in, the head shot is hard to even imagine. Life just got very uncomplicated, and you will either win or lose.
You have to make the decision to stand and fight, which means you may take a round, or simply run.
You can go to all the training camps, and shooting schools you can afford, but all they can do is teach you to shoot, and a few tactics that may never apply to the situation you end up in. They can't sell you courage, and they can't sell you determination. You either have it or you don't and speculation is a pipe dream. All the bravado on forums, or in coffee shop counts for nothing.
Once you have been in such a fight, you are not anxious to be in another, because you know now what it really is, and it wasn't fun, it wasn't entertainingly exciting, and mortality is very well explained in your mind.
Most folks that enjoy, talking about, or suggest killing, haven't done any, and no, I am not pointing any fingers, I don't really know what anyone here has done. I do however, from time to time speculate.
The bottom line on all this, is handguns are a personal choice, and many THINK they know which one is best. What they ACTUALLY know, is what they like. I know what I like, and I know what I trust, and I also know what works for me in the real world. It is up to each individual to figure that out for themselves.
BTW. I'm not an expert at anything. Includin gunfightin.

[Greeenriver]

Unlike most of you, I actialy seen a man get shot with a 22mag one evening. Tucumcari NM. I was a city cop and the first to respond to a call at a local bar of a fight in progress. Pulled into the parking lot and a large bunch of people outside. Fella with a pistol in his hand running, another fella with a Ruger Single Six in 22 mag shot him in the back of the left shoulder. First fella did a head dive face forward on the gravel parking lot and second fella handed me the single six as I got out of the car. Actialy, there was much more going on at the time and it was tense for a few seconds. but that is the short story. Fella that got shot lived, but his left shoulder blade was completly shattered and the ribs broken beneath the sholder blade. Bullet passed through the shoulder blade and ribs into lung cavity and really screwed up the guy's day. But he shouldn't have cut a man in a Mexican bar to start with, LOL!!

Long story short, twice I've seen what a 22 mag can do to a person, and I wouldn't hesitate a bit to cary one. They are a deadly little round if you hit the chest or head. Once was a suciside with a darrenger to the roof of the mouth, and it was almost instant.

Greeenriver

[SHOOTALL]

 To add to what Dee expressed , The times i have had a gun pointed at me I saw the gun , everything else seemed blurred or something . I had to fight that to see other stuff .