Help me

[Saloon slug]

I have been working up loads for my renegade using Pyrodex P, .018 pillow ticking, beef tallow, and .490 RB's. I have not had much luck getting anything to group in under 10" at 100 yards. I started with 70grns of powder and have gone as high as 85 with no improvement. I am still breaking in the barrel and have 20 rounds threw it now I have been wiping between shoots to keep the fowling down. I know that black is best but it is not sold around here in San Diego so Pyrodex is all I can get at an affordable price. I am a bit confused do you load Pyro just like black i.e 80grn Blk =80grn Pyro I have seen conflicting opinions. Can any of you give me some tips would using a lube wad make a difference. Any and all help is most welcome I ain't ready to give up but it is frustrating.

Thanks

[raynor]

I would try Pyrodex Select in your rifle.  The Pyrodex P is a pistol powder or small bore rifle powder, 32 thru about 40 cal.  Black is the best choice as you have mentioned.

Load it volume to volume like black powder.   A 70 grain scoop for black, use the same 70 grain scoop for the Pyrodex.  Might also try other patch lubes and other patch materials.  Crisco works best in one of my barrels.  Every barrel likes something a little different, even the same make and caliber will not shoot the same and you'll need to find each ones favorite patch and lube combo.

Could even try a .495 ball with thinner patch material.   First thing I'd try though would be Pyrodex Select.

[flintlock]

What do your patches look like after you shoot??? They should look like you should be able to use them again...I would try a wad (or hornets nesting) between the powder and patch, this helps keep the patch from burning through, also look for cuts on the patches, you could be cutting them upon loading...

If none of this helps, you could try changing the lube, many use Crisco, BoreButter, I myself use SnoSeal..

The .490 ball and .018 patch sound right from what I hear from other T/C users...

One other thought...Pyrodex P is for pistols...It is finer and burns faster than Pyrodex R-S...I would switch to that as well...It could be that the P is burning through your patches...

[Snowshoe]

First get some Pyrodex RS, and some bore buttons. The bore button will help protect the patch. Try 70g of powder by volume, and check your patches after you shoot. The rifling may be sharp and cutting them, or you may be getting burn through from the hot powder you are using. If you still are not getting good groups, try using other patching material like denim, and I would try using another patch lube. Try moose milk or Wonder Lube. There are a lot of recipes for moose milk, a good one is; Castor Oil 3 oz.
Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.
Witch Hazel 4 oz.
Isopropyl Alcohol (91%) 8 oz.
Water (non-chlorinated if available) 16 oz
 Another one I use is Balistol {water soluable oil] instead of Castor oil, Murphys oil soap, and windshield washer fluid instead of the alcohol and witch hazel.
I have never seen a 1 in 48" rifled barrel that will not shoot a round ball well, but some take some work to find the right load. Good luck and have fun.

[lonewolf5348]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/lonewolf5347/P1040007.jpg
The above renegade is a early kit gun that I built a few years back in 54  Flint.
I find it shoots clover leaf groups with hornady 230 grain RB'S a wad under the patched ball.
My powder of choice is goex 3F 95 grains ,my lube is beeswax and lard mix 60/40 and a table spoon of live oil.
I shoot 3 flinters from t/c and seem they all favor real black 3F goex.
I at one time have trouble getting real black for a while and found pyrodex select did well but 5 grains of real black went down the barrel first before the main charge.
I would say if real black is not in your area I would place a order over the internet
ww. graf@sons .com has the best price on real black all internet orders are $3.95 but hazmat is $20.00 so make it worth it I always order 5LBS at a time

[Saloon slug]

I am planning on getting some RS hopefully that help. I was using the P because it was on hand and I have seen many here using 3f so thought I would give it a try. My patches have been inconsistent half come out looking good the rest are  blown out or have chard spots. I will give the other lubes a try I have lots of Crisco for my 1858's so that is an easy switch. I would prefer to use real black but Uncle Sam don't pay me enough to buy black and still be able to feed my other smokeless guns those hazmat fees are just out of the budget.

So here is what we got so far
Change lube
try a wad ( can I use a card wad like I would in a cartridge? )
Pyrodex RS or Select

Anything else?

Thanks again for the help

[lonewolf5348]

can I use a card wad like I would in a cartridge
I would use a double card wad over powder should help burn threw on patches

[Saloon slug]

I will give that a try.

[Winter Hawk]

The price for Graf & sons black powder is rather out of date.  It is now $12 to $13 per pound for the holy Black.  The website is different also: http://www.grafs.com/powders/3522

Even with the hazmat fee, if you can get some friends to go in on a case of 25 you would beat the cost of Pyrodex.

-WH-

[Landngroove]

The other posters give good advice. Try Pyrodex RS, and a "Bore Button" or "Wonder Wad" over the powder. Start at 70 grains and work up. I have good luck with Hoppes #9 Plus Black Powder Solvent And Patch Lube, with my pillow ticking patches. Also have good luck with Thompson Center Natural Lube 1000 Bore Butter, as a patch lube.

[forest2]

1st. off, scrub the bore. ya likely had some of the shipping/packing grease left in there before ya shot the first round. that'll mess ya right-up!
Oil type products and BP or faux BP become tar when mixed with heat/pressure and burning stuff.
When you can run a white patch down the bore and it comes out white, your ready to shoot.

If you can come back and tell me you done that part, I'll try ta help ya shoot prb.

Put the beef tallow down, this barrel ain't no fryin pan that needs to "season" before it's good.

 If Beef tallow, Deer Tallow, or Pork Tallow worked best? Trust me they wouldn't market Natural lube 1000 as being closest to "spit" of all the lubes you can buy. Bear Grease? Bee's wax? Silicon?

 Bear oil. Whale oil. yes.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

I seen " beef tallow" and thats more than likely the problem.  I had a renegade a couple years back and it loved a .490 PRB and a bore buttered patch, along with 90 grains RS.  Your lube more than likely isnt protecting the patch and its burning up. Buy a pack of store bought prelubed patches and just give it a try.

[Slamfire]

Assuming yore Renegade has a 48" twist, I'm thinkin' you might want to lower yore powder charge, to see if the accuracy improves. You may be overstabilizin' them, and any flaws in the balls will magnify the errors. If you start at .50 grains and work up in 5 grain increments you'll find out pretty quick. Conicals in a 48" twist may show their best accuracy with heavier charges. 

[Saloon slug]

I cleaned out the bore really good after I finished the barrel so its clean. I will give the lube and powder change a try and go from there. Thanks fellas